If Music Could Talk

Flex wrote: ↑

08 Jul 2019, 3:21pm

Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑

08 Jul 2019, 3:09pm

I agree in a larger sense—that "savvy cynicism" is its own kind of cosmopolitan smugness—but it's not unfair to be skeptical of shallow cultural dabbling, especially if it's just about status (being hipper than thou). It's not what Joe was trying to convey, obviously, but it's not hard to read those words coming from, as Hoy said, "college dipshits."

I was just thinking on this - and the parallel with "would have voted for Obama for a third term" Get Out family - what I think is missing from the criticism of the song is thinking about the class interests that go into the proverbial cultural tourism. Is this about genuine appreciation for cultural diversity - clumsy or not - or is it about using culture as a tool to mask a person's class interest in decimating said cultural diversity. That's what grates about a certain kind of person that, presumably, Hoy is thinking of - they're the kinds of folks who claim to want to live in a diverse neighborhood but support policies that lead to gentrification, for example.

I have a hard time finding an expression of that hostile class interest in BB, and I think it was Wally who mentioned Joe would be lamenting the gentrification that has come to his beloved neighborhood.

Flex wrote: ↑

08 Jul 2019, 3:21pm

Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑

08 Jul 2019, 3:09pm

I agree in a larger sense—that "savvy cynicism" is its own kind of cosmopolitan smugness—but it's not unfair to be skeptical of shallow cultural dabbling, especially if it's just about status (being hipper than thou). It's not what Joe was trying to convey, obviously, but it's not hard to read those words coming from, as Hoy said, "college dipshits."

I was just thinking on this - and the parallel with "would have voted for Obama for a third term" Get Out family - what I think is missing from the criticism of the song is thinking about the class interests that go into the proverbial cultural tourism. Is this about genuine appreciation for cultural diversity - clumsy or not - or is it about using culture as a tool to mask a person's class interest in decimating said cultural diversity. That's what grates about a certain kind of person that, presumably, Hoy is thinking of - they're the kinds of folks who claim to want to live in a diverse neighborhood but support policies that lead to gentrification, for example.

I have a hard time finding an expression of that hostile class interest in BB, and I think it was Wally who mentioned Joe would be lamenting the gentrification that has come to his beloved neighborhood.

Kory wrote: ↑

08 Jul 2019, 6:39pm

Who knew fatherhood was going to make Hoy so bitter?

Wolter wrote: ↑

08 Jul 2019, 6:58pm

Kory wrote: ↑

08 Jul 2019, 6:39pm

Who knew fatherhood was going to make Hoy so bitter?

Fathers everywhere.

Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑

08 Jul 2019, 3:43pm

Flex wrote: ↑

08 Jul 2019, 3:21pm

Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑

08 Jul 2019, 3:09pm

I agree in a larger sense—that "savvy cynicism" is its own kind of cosmopolitan smugness—but it's not unfair to be skeptical of shallow cultural dabbling, especially if it's just about status (being hipper than thou). It's not what Joe was trying to convey, obviously, but it's not hard to read those words coming from, as Hoy said, "college dipshits."

I was just thinking on this - and the parallel with "would have voted for Obama for a third term" Get Out family - what I think is missing from the criticism of the song is thinking about the class interests that go into the proverbial cultural tourism. Is this about genuine appreciation for cultural diversity - clumsy or not - or is it about using culture as a tool to mask a person's class interest in decimating said cultural diversity. That's what grates about a certain kind of person that, presumably, Hoy is thinking of - they're the kinds of folks who claim to want to live in a diverse neighborhood but support policies that lead to gentrification, for example.

I have a hard time finding an expression of that hostile class interest in BB, and I think it was Wally who mentioned Joe would be lamenting the gentrification that has come to his beloved neighborhood.

Certainly and I agree with everything you say in terms of what Joe intended. But, if you wanted to, you could read the song as satirical and turn it into the shallow mouthings of those liberal gentrifiers, particularly a real estate agent. Oh, you'll love it here, it's got all kinds of exotic flavour for you. People who just want to be able to say they live somewhere multicultural trendy for the status. There's just so much in the lyrics that it can be read as phony over-the-top salesmanship. Like where he talks about the kind of music you'll hear in the neighbourhood. It reminds me of people, when asked what they like, they say, "Oh, I like all kinds of music!" But if nailed down, it ends up pretty pedestrian. Joe is sincere but not everyone else is.

This openendedness to the song actually makes me appreciate it more—which has been the great thing about the survivor rounds—even if the one interpretation makes it more unflattering. Because it evokes feelings of genuine appreciation for diversity and respect, but also because, however unintentionally, it evokes criticism of phony commitment to diversity.

edit: In the end, Hoy's snarky dissent, I think, should be commended rather than derided because it does open things up.

ohsoso wrote: ↑

12 Jul 2019, 10:36am

Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑

08 Jul 2019, 3:43pm

Flex wrote: ↑

08 Jul 2019, 3:21pm

Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑

08 Jul 2019, 3:09pm

I agree in a larger sense—that "savvy cynicism" is its own kind of cosmopolitan smugness—but it's not unfair to be skeptical of shallow cultural dabbling, especially if it's just about status (being hipper than thou). It's not what Joe was trying to convey, obviously, but it's not hard to read those words coming from, as Hoy said, "college dipshits."

I was just thinking on this - and the parallel with "would have voted for Obama for a third term" Get Out family - what I think is missing from the criticism of the song is thinking about the class interests that go into the proverbial cultural tourism. Is this about genuine appreciation for cultural diversity - clumsy or not - or is it about using culture as a tool to mask a person's class interest in decimating said cultural diversity. That's what grates about a certain kind of person that, presumably, Hoy is thinking of - they're the kinds of folks who claim to want to live in a diverse neighborhood but support policies that lead to gentrification, for example.

I have a hard time finding an expression of that hostile class interest in BB, and I think it was Wally who mentioned Joe would be lamenting the gentrification that has come to his beloved neighborhood.

Certainly and I agree with everything you say in terms of what Joe intended. But, if you wanted to, you could read the song as satirical and turn it into the shallow mouthings of those liberal gentrifiers, particularly a real estate agent. Oh, you'll love it here, it's got all kinds of exotic flavour for you. People who just want to be able to say they live somewhere multicultural trendy for the status. There's just so much in the lyrics that it can be read as phony over-the-top salesmanship. Like where he talks about the kind of music you'll hear in the neighbourhood. It reminds me of people, when asked what they like, they say, "Oh, I like all kinds of music!" But if nailed down, it ends up pretty pedestrian. Joe is sincere but not everyone else is.

This openendedness to the song actually makes me appreciate it more—which has been the great thing about the survivor rounds—even if the one interpretation makes it more unflattering. Because it evokes feelings of genuine appreciation for diversity and respect, but also because, however unintentionally, it evokes criticism of phony commitment to diversity.

edit: In the end, Hoy's snarky dissent, I think, should be commended rather than derided because it does open things up.

agree that the lyrics in BB are awkward but the non cynic delivery makes up for it. saw it as an updated shouting street.