Mohawk Revenge Live 1984

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Marky Dread
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Re: Mohawk Revenge Live 1984

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Stefano1972 wrote:
24 Jul 2022, 7:26am
Marky Dread wrote:
24 Jul 2022, 4:59am
Stefano1972 wrote:
23 Jul 2022, 8:28pm
Marky Dread wrote:
28 Aug 2017, 3:20pm
Came so close to calling this "From Hell to Eternity".

https://mega.nz/#!KxFilbTJ!VFp6qXLhElM3 ... rpIsrx2kzI
So pity i’ve lost this one too…
Only 5 years too late.
Sigh… i’ve discovered this website only one year ago. But, anyway thanks for all the other remasters i’ve already taken. Florence 81 where i’ve added a short Mick interview at the end, Brixton 82, Amsterdam 81 and many others 🙏
Stefano I have made a brand new version of this upload with much better sound. Watch this space.😉

Look here : https://www.clashcity.com/boards/viewto ... =7&t=13705
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The end of liberty


We're the flowers in the dustbin...
No fuchsias for you.

"Without the common people you're nothing"

Nos Sumus Una Familia

Chairman Ralph
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Re: Mohawk Revenge Live 1984

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Yeah I'm not declaring it to be a masterpiece but there was promise enough (with work) for it to become a fine track.
Depends how you define the term, doesn't it? Or how Bernie defined it -- after all, he was the mastermind who held back Pouring Rain in favor of such "masterpieces" as Play To Win, and Fingerpoppin', the sounds of barrels scraping. To me, it'll always be criminal that that song never got released (along with Ammunition, another one held back for no good reason).

To put this through my perspective, as we all do, my feeling stems from recalling that MSU Auditorium gig, where Pouring Rain was among the four new songs they played that night. I went with about four other friends, and we all agreed afterwards that that song seemed -- along with Three Card Trick -- the most promising, or certainly, the ones that sounded the most "finished."

As for the other two aired that night, Are You Ready For War struck us as OK (well delivered, couldn't make out most of the words) and Sex Mad War, I remember thinking, "That one needs more work, it sounds undercooked." But one way or another, Pouring Rain and Ammunition should have found a home on vinyl, not left to float around on live tapes. Not that I mind having them (even if mine has yet to surface!), but I just feel a sense of unfinished business whenever I do pull them out and listen.

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Re: Mohawk Revenge Live 1984

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Chairman Ralph wrote:
26 Jul 2022, 10:36pm
Yeah I'm not declaring it to be a masterpiece but there was promise enough (with work) for it to become a fine track.
Depends how you define the term, doesn't it? Or how Bernie defined it -- after all, he was the mastermind who held back Pouring Rain in favor of such "masterpieces" as Play To Win, and Fingerpoppin', the sounds of barrels scraping. To me, it'll always be criminal that that song never got released (along with Ammunition, another one held back for no good reason).

To put this through my perspective, as we all do, my feeling stems from recalling that MSU Auditorium gig, where Pouring Rain was among the four new songs they played that night. I went with about four other friends, and we all agreed afterwards that that song seemed -- along with Three Card Trick -- the most promising, or certainly, the ones that sounded the most "finished."

As for the other two aired that night, Are You Ready For War struck us as OK (well delivered, couldn't make out most of the words) and Sex Mad War, I remember thinking, "That one needs more work, it sounds undercooked." But one way or another, Pouring Rain and Ammunition should have found a home on vinyl, not left to float around on live tapes. Not that I mind having them (even if mine has yet to surface!), but I just feel a sense of unfinished business whenever I do pull them out and listen.
Agree on everything there, though perhaps we should regard it as a blessing those songs didn't actually get the full Bernie studio treatment for whatever reason! I see I've given Pouring Rain some heady praise in this thread and I stand by it still. I just love the mood of the track. In the context of all the "back to basics" stuff and all that was going on in Britain in 84, the only way that makes any sense to me is in tracks like Pouring Rain as well as TIE and TCT. Only needed a good bit more of where that came from.

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Re: Mohawk Revenge Live 1984

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Agree on everything there, though perhaps we should regard it as a blessing those songs didn't actually get the full Bernie studio treatment for whatever reason! I see I've given Pouring Rain some heady praise in this thread and I stand by it still. I just love the mood of the track. In the context of all the "back to basics" stuff and all that was going on in Britain in 84, the only way that makes any sense to me is in tracks like Pouring Rain as well as TIE and TCT. Only needed a good bit more of where that came from.
Ha! Yeah, that's another way to look at it -- knowing him, and his OTT proclivities, both those songs might well have sounded like some unholy fusion of ABC and Frankie Goes To Hollywood, with a ton of found sounds, gated drums, and those wafer-thin DX7 synths thrown in, for good measure. :mrgreen: Plus a bit of Status Quo chord blotches thrown in, as well.

But still, it's too bad. I can dream of an alternate universe where that Pouring Rain gets the treatment it deserves -- as I said, it sounded great at my gig. The combination of moodiness and melodicism made it stand out amid all the hard-charging nature of the other stuff, which is what perked the ears of my friends and myself. I liked the lyrics, as well, once I finally saw them "translated" in all their glory.

Actually, if you take Pouring Rain, plus Ammunition, TIE and TCT, you have the makings of a class EP that's struggling to get out -- and yes, I'd agree, a little more where that came from would have gone a long way. If you take those four on their own recognizance, and stand them up side by side, the whole drift of that era -- measured against what was going on musically in Britain at the time -- almost starts to make a bit more sense.

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Re: Mohawk Revenge Live 1984

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Chairman Ralph wrote:
27 Jul 2022, 2:51pm
Agree on everything there, though perhaps we should regard it as a blessing those songs didn't actually get the full Bernie studio treatment for whatever reason! I see I've given Pouring Rain some heady praise in this thread and I stand by it still. I just love the mood of the track. In the context of all the "back to basics" stuff and all that was going on in Britain in 84, the only way that makes any sense to me is in tracks like Pouring Rain as well as TIE and TCT. Only needed a good bit more of where that came from.
Ha! Yeah, that's another way to look at it -- knowing him, and his OTT proclivities, both those songs might well have sounded like some unholy fusion of ABC and Frankie Goes To Hollywood, with a ton of found sounds, gated drums, and those wafer-thin DX7 synths thrown in, for good measure. :mrgreen: Plus a bit of Status Quo chord blotches thrown in, as well.

But still, it's too bad. I can dream of an alternate universe where that Pouring Rain gets the treatment it deserves -- as I said, it sounded great at my gig. The combination of moodiness and melodicism made it stand out amid all the hard-charging nature of the other stuff, which is what perked the ears of my friends and myself. I liked the lyrics, as well, once I finally saw them "translated" in all their glory.

Actually, if you take Pouring Rain, plus Ammunition, TIE and TCT, you have the makings of a class EP that's struggling to get out -- and yes, I'd agree, a little more where that came from would have gone a long way. If you take those four on their own recognizance, and stand them up side by side, the whole drift of that era -- measured against what was going on musically in Britain at the time -- almost starts to make a bit more sense.
You say that like it is a bad thing!

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Re: Mohawk Revenge Live 1984

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You say that like it is a bad thing!
Not at all! I meant it rhetorically. I'd hardly have spent five years working on a book about that whole era if I didn't like it. Especially when you consider how time goes into a project like that.

The MSU gig will always stand in my Top 10, 20 or 30, regardless of how CTC turned out -- nothing will ever change that feeling. And that's where it'll have to stay, in some deep recess of my brain, until a tape finally surfaces.

But I'm also thinking in terms of the studio context, of how my friends and I felt that night, coming back from that gig. A lot of the discussion took a similar drift, as in, "Wow, if they can just get some of that on vinyl, they'll really have something there. It'll be the comeback of the ages!" Those four songs strike me as the strongest era, which made for a great starting point, certainly at the time. So that's all I meant, basically.

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Re: Mohawk Revenge Live 1984

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Chairman Ralph wrote:
27 Jul 2022, 4:33pm
You say that like it is a bad thing!
Not at all! I meant it rhetorically. I'd hardly have spent five years working on a book about that whole era if I didn't like it. Especially when you consider how time goes into a project like that.

The MSU gig will always stand in my Top 10, 20 or 30, regardless of how CTC turned out -- nothing will ever change that feeling. And that's where it'll have to stay, in some deep recess of my brain, until a tape finally surfaces.

But I'm also thinking in terms of the studio context, of how my friends and I felt that night, coming back from that gig. A lot of the discussion took a similar drift, as in, "Wow, if they can just get some of that on vinyl, they'll really have something there. It'll be the comeback of the ages!" Those four songs strike me as the strongest era, which made for a great starting point, certainly at the time. So that's all I meant, basically.
Ha! that's the old English tongue in cheek humour. Both Laxman and I are fans of ABC but obviously when it comes to The Clash then their sound is and should be miles apart.

But with "Frankie Goes to Hollywood" you are pretty spot on. I can imagine Bernie thinking they were creating edgy pop music and hitting the top of the charts. Bernie clearly thinking he could be a Trevor Horn to The Clash.
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Forces have been looting
My humanity
Curfews have been curbing
The end of liberty


We're the flowers in the dustbin...
No fuchsias for you.

"Without the common people you're nothing"

Nos Sumus Una Familia

Chairman Ralph
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Re: Mohawk Revenge Live 1984

Post by Chairman Ralph »

Ha! that's the old English tongue in cheek humour. Both Laxman and I are fans of ABC but obviously when it comes to The Clash then their sound is and should be miles apart.

But with "Frankie Goes to Hollywood" you are pretty spot on. I can imagine Bernie thinking they were creating edgy pop music and hitting the top of the charts. Bernie clearly thinking he could be a Trevor Horn to The Clash.
I didn't mind ABC that much, actually, though I didn't really appreciate their better qualities till a long time after, when I saw that "Bands Reunited" thing on them. Then I thought, "Oh, OK, that's what they mean, then." Martin Fry did come across as pretty engaging, and charming, at least on that show. But that's not what I was listening to at the time.

And yes, I think FGTH seemed like a logical reference point, particularly on the likes of Fingerpoppin'. It makes sense that Bernie would try to cop some of that vibe, and I believe we advanced that same analogy (to Trevor Horn) in the book.

If Bernie had had his way, that's how his story would have turned out. I think he definitely aspired to be a creative personality, but not just a Malcolm McLaren-ish knock-off, as some commentators have stated -- I think he saw himself as some type of mega-mogul figure, cranking out the product, and pushing it out the door.

Certainly, by that point, in that era, being "merely" a "manager" -- even one who'd midwifed the likes of the Clash -- didn't seem to be enough for him anymore. But fate had other plans, not to mention a few knobs twiddled in strange places. :mrgreen: Or, as the man above said: "When your world is full of strange arrangements..." Little did he know, eh?

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Re: Mohawk Revenge Live 1984

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Definitely a tongue in cheek comment.

ABC are a favourite of mine (and I like Pleasuredome era FGTH too) but I wouldn't want the Clash to have sounded like them.

I only saw that Bands Reunited ABC show for the first time last week. A shame they didn't all join in but it was good fun.

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Re: Mohawk Revenge Live 1984

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Definitely a tongue in cheek comment.

ABC are a favourite of mine (and I like Pleasuredome era FGTH too) but I wouldn't want the Clash to have sounded like them.

I only saw that Bands Reunited ABC show for the first time last week. A shame they didn't all join in but it was good fun.
No worries there. Like I said, ABC wasn't part of my listening at the time, but seeing that show made me realize, "Hey, there was a pretty good band under all that high gloss stuff." Martin Fry's enthusiasm was fun to watch, especially after the bulb went off, and he went, "Oh, yeah, maybe we can do this, even if there's only a quorum of members present!" :mrgreen: Great stuff, for sure.

My favorite show, though, was probably the English Beat one, especially when Dave Wakeling said that the original guiding spirt of "all for one, one for all" got "eaten up in baby food." Or something along that line! Hilarious, though, all the same, so I wasn't surprised when that particular twain didn't meet.

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Re: Mohawk Revenge Live 1984

Post by Low Down Low »

Chairman Ralph wrote:
27 Jul 2022, 2:51pm
Agree on everything there, though perhaps we should regard it as a blessing those songs didn't actually get the full Bernie studio treatment for whatever reason! I see I've given Pouring Rain some heady praise in this thread and I stand by it still. I just love the mood of the track. In the context of all the "back to basics" stuff and all that was going on in Britain in 84, the only way that makes any sense to me is in tracks like Pouring Rain as well as TIE and TCT. Only needed a good bit more of where that came from.
Ha! Yeah, that's another way to look at it -- knowing him, and his OTT proclivities, both those songs might well have sounded like some unholy fusion of ABC and Frankie Goes To Hollywood, with a ton of found sounds, gated drums, and those wafer-thin DX7 synths thrown in, for good measure. :mrgreen: Plus a bit of Status Quo chord blotches thrown in, as well.

But still, it's too bad. I can dream of an alternate universe where that Pouring Rain gets the treatment it deserves -- as I said, it sounded great at my gig. The combination of moodiness and melodicism made it stand out amid all the hard-charging nature of the other stuff, which is what perked the ears of my friends and myself. I liked the lyrics, as well, once I finally saw them "translated" in all their glory.

Actually, if you take Pouring Rain, plus Ammunition, TIE and TCT, you have the makings of a class EP that's struggling to get out -- and yes, I'd agree, a little more where that came from would have gone a long way. If you take those four on their own recognizance, and stand them up side by side, the whole drift of that era -- measured against what was going on musically in Britain at the time -- almost starts to make a bit more sense.
I can easily envisage Pouring Rain with a Dictator-style backdrop, just replace the guitars on the demo entirely with synths, add bells and whistles and take from there. I think Jericho would have been kept as a rocker but with the football chorus belting out "Ammunition" every 10 seconds and the sounds of ricocheting bullets flitting over and back through the stereo system. I am not unhappy none of this actually happened.

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