Aapy Berfday GEER

Clash clash clash. ¡VIVAN LOS NORTEAMERICANOS DEL IMCT Y LAS BRIGADAS DEL CADILLAC NUEVO!
Heston
User avatar
God of Thunder...and Rock 'n Roll
Posts: 28939
Joined: 15 Jun 2008, 4:07pm
Location: North of Watford Junction
Contact:

Re: Aapy Berfday GEER

Post by Heston » 14 Nov 2018, 2:43pm

matedog wrote:
14 Nov 2018, 2:23pm
Heston wrote:
14 Nov 2018, 1:55pm
matedog wrote:
14 Nov 2018, 11:16am
deny wrote:
13 Nov 2018, 2:34pm
Kory wrote:
13 Nov 2018, 1:46pm


That's crazy on both counts. You're crazy.
How am I crazy? Please explain.
Nah you're right. Also, English Civil War is a great song, but sounds like shit on the record. All in all, it's a mixed bag. Some tracks sound phenomenal, while others have inherent flaws. I have zero complaints or criticisms with the COL sound though.

As I've stated here, the main issues I have with GEER are in songwriting, not mix/production.
What is wrong with the sound on ECW? Sounds ok to me.
Namely the double track Joe vocals. Double track vocals irritate the hell out of me in generally, but are particularly bad for Joe because he had such pitch problems. Also that riff Mick plays over Joe's intro vocal is kinda overkill. Tempo drags relative to live versions too, which is the case for most live Clash, but it really is to the song's detriment. A song like SEH never sounded as good as it did on GEER, ECW always sounded better live (except Terry tour).
No Hoyston this time. If anything double tracking will help pitch problems as it gives an aggregate pitch. Not that I think Joe had any pitch problems in the studio, I think he is usually bang on the money on their recordings. Live was a different matter, Washington Bullets and Corner Soul spring to mind. And that little guitar lick by Mick is fine. Tempo ok too.
I just polished off some Low Country shrimp & grits and a mess of collards. That's a hell of a strain on the arm.

matedog
User avatar
Purveyor of Hoyistic Thought
Posts: 20915
Joined: 15 Jun 2008, 4:07pm
Location: 1995

Re: Aapy Berfday GEER

Post by matedog » 14 Nov 2018, 2:53pm

Heston wrote:
14 Nov 2018, 2:43pm
matedog wrote:
14 Nov 2018, 2:23pm
Heston wrote:
14 Nov 2018, 1:55pm
matedog wrote:
14 Nov 2018, 11:16am
deny wrote:
13 Nov 2018, 2:34pm


How am I crazy? Please explain.
Nah you're right. Also, English Civil War is a great song, but sounds like shit on the record. All in all, it's a mixed bag. Some tracks sound phenomenal, while others have inherent flaws. I have zero complaints or criticisms with the COL sound though.

As I've stated here, the main issues I have with GEER are in songwriting, not mix/production.
What is wrong with the sound on ECW? Sounds ok to me.
Namely the double track Joe vocals. Double track vocals irritate the hell out of me in generally, but are particularly bad for Joe because he had such pitch problems. Also that riff Mick plays over Joe's intro vocal is kinda overkill. Tempo drags relative to live versions too, which is the case for most live Clash, but it really is to the song's detriment. A song like SEH never sounded as good as it did on GEER, ECW always sounded better live (except Terry tour).
No Hoyston this time. If anything double tracking will help pitch problems as it gives an aggregate pitch. Not that I think Joe had any pitch problems in the studio, I think he is usually bang on the money on their recordings. Live was a different matter, Washington Bullets and Corner Soul spring to mind. And that little guitar lick by Mick is fine. Tempo ok too.
I submit the following:
Look, you have to establish context for these things. And I maintain that unless you appreciate the Fall of Constantinople, the Great Fire of London, and Mickey Mantle's fatalist alcoholism, live Freddy makes no sense. If you want to half-ass it, fine, go call Simon Schama to do the appendix.

Heston
User avatar
God of Thunder...and Rock 'n Roll
Posts: 28939
Joined: 15 Jun 2008, 4:07pm
Location: North of Watford Junction
Contact:

Re: Aapy Berfday GEER

Post by Heston » 14 Nov 2018, 3:49pm

matedog wrote:
14 Nov 2018, 2:53pm
Heston wrote:
14 Nov 2018, 2:43pm
matedog wrote:
14 Nov 2018, 2:23pm
Heston wrote:
14 Nov 2018, 1:55pm
matedog wrote:
14 Nov 2018, 11:16am

Nah you're right. Also, English Civil War is a great song, but sounds like shit on the record. All in all, it's a mixed bag. Some tracks sound phenomenal, while others have inherent flaws. I have zero complaints or criticisms with the COL sound though.

As I've stated here, the main issues I have with GEER are in songwriting, not mix/production.
What is wrong with the sound on ECW? Sounds ok to me.
Namely the double track Joe vocals. Double track vocals irritate the hell out of me in generally, but are particularly bad for Joe because he had such pitch problems. Also that riff Mick plays over Joe's intro vocal is kinda overkill. Tempo drags relative to live versions too, which is the case for most live Clash, but it really is to the song's detriment. A song like SEH never sounded as good as it did on GEER, ECW always sounded better live (except Terry tour).
No Hoyston this time. If anything double tracking will help pitch problems as it gives an aggregate pitch. Not that I think Joe had any pitch problems in the studio, I think he is usually bang on the money on their recordings. Live was a different matter, Washington Bullets and Corner Soul spring to mind. And that little guitar lick by Mick is fine. Tempo ok too.
I submit the following:
Doesn't sound too bad to me but we have to remember this was the punk era and great pitch was out of fashion. ;)
I just polished off some Low Country shrimp & grits and a mess of collards. That's a hell of a strain on the arm.

matedog
User avatar
Purveyor of Hoyistic Thought
Posts: 20915
Joined: 15 Jun 2008, 4:07pm
Location: 1995

Re: Aapy Berfday GEER

Post by matedog » 14 Nov 2018, 3:57pm

Heston wrote:
14 Nov 2018, 3:49pm
matedog wrote:
14 Nov 2018, 2:53pm
Heston wrote:
14 Nov 2018, 2:43pm
matedog wrote:
14 Nov 2018, 2:23pm
Heston wrote:
14 Nov 2018, 1:55pm


What is wrong with the sound on ECW? Sounds ok to me.
Namely the double track Joe vocals. Double track vocals irritate the hell out of me in generally, but are particularly bad for Joe because he had such pitch problems. Also that riff Mick plays over Joe's intro vocal is kinda overkill. Tempo drags relative to live versions too, which is the case for most live Clash, but it really is to the song's detriment. A song like SEH never sounded as good as it did on GEER, ECW always sounded better live (except Terry tour).
No Hoyston this time. If anything double tracking will help pitch problems as it gives an aggregate pitch. Not that I think Joe had any pitch problems in the studio, I think he is usually bang on the money on their recordings. Live was a different matter, Washington Bullets and Corner Soul spring to mind. And that little guitar lick by Mick is fine. Tempo ok too.
I submit the following:
Doesn't sound too bad to me but we have to remember this was the punk era and great pitch was out of fashion. ;)
The Ohhs from like 35-40 are pretty atrocious.
Look, you have to establish context for these things. And I maintain that unless you appreciate the Fall of Constantinople, the Great Fire of London, and Mickey Mantle's fatalist alcoholism, live Freddy makes no sense. If you want to half-ass it, fine, go call Simon Schama to do the appendix.

Heston
User avatar
God of Thunder...and Rock 'n Roll
Posts: 28939
Joined: 15 Jun 2008, 4:07pm
Location: North of Watford Junction
Contact:

Re: Aapy Berfday GEER

Post by Heston » 14 Nov 2018, 4:09pm

matedog wrote:
14 Nov 2018, 3:57pm
The Ohhs from like 35-40 are pretty atrocious.
Just sounds raw and angry to me. Like I say, I don't think pitching was that important to them in 77, but if you analyse Joe's later stuff he never strikes you as someone who sings out of tune like, say, a Dylan or Mark E. Smith. Most producer interviews I have read say Joe usually got a vocal down in one or two takes and gave it 100% every time. Glyn Johns gushes about him in his book and he has been round the block a bit.
I just polished off some Low Country shrimp & grits and a mess of collards. That's a hell of a strain on the arm.

IkarisOne
User avatar
Unknown Immortal
Posts: 2889
Joined: 24 Aug 2008, 10:09pm

Re: Aapy Berfday GEER

Post by IkarisOne » 15 Nov 2018, 1:02pm

Heston wrote:
14 Nov 2018, 2:43pm
matedog wrote:
14 Nov 2018, 2:23pm
Heston wrote:
14 Nov 2018, 1:55pm
matedog wrote:
14 Nov 2018, 11:16am
deny wrote:
13 Nov 2018, 2:34pm


How am I crazy? Please explain.
Nah you're right. Also, English Civil War is a great song, but sounds like shit on the record. All in all, it's a mixed bag. Some tracks sound phenomenal, while others have inherent flaws. I have zero complaints or criticisms with the COL sound though.

As I've stated here, the main issues I have with GEER are in songwriting, not mix/production.
What is wrong with the sound on ECW? Sounds ok to me.
Namely the double track Joe vocals. Double track vocals irritate the hell out of me in generally, but are particularly bad for Joe because he had such pitch problems. Also that riff Mick plays over Joe's intro vocal is kinda overkill. Tempo drags relative to live versions too, which is the case for most live Clash, but it really is to the song's detriment. A song like SEH never sounded as good as it did on GEER, ECW always sounded better live (except Terry tour).
No Hoyston this time. If anything double tracking will help pitch problems as it gives an aggregate pitch. Not that I think Joe had any pitch problems in the studio, I think he is usually bang on the money on their recordings. Live was a different matter, Washington Bullets and Corner Soul spring to mind. And that little guitar lick by Mick is fine. Tempo ok too.
I'd say a lot of the pitch problems with the Sandinista material live is having nothing to pitch to besides Paul's "bass playing" (sic)- which as Johns rightly said existed in its own non-musical universe- and Mick's rough approximations of the riffs. Coming in cold on Bullets and Corner would throw a Pavarotti off-key since it meant tuning with Paul's dissonant non-Euclidean notes. When they wisely re-arranged Bullets as a rock song with a full intro Joe had much better luck IMO.

The Sandi recorded arrangements were pretty rich, melodically speaking, and offered a limited singer like Joe a lot more to play off of.

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 9 guests