If Music Could Talk

You don't need a cancer-sniffing dog to sense that some CtC revisionist insanity is about to erupt.

Low Down Low wrote: ↑

04 Feb 2019, 3:07pm

Heston wrote: ↑

04 Feb 2019, 1:36pm

matedog wrote: ↑

04 Feb 2019, 1:26pm

Heston wrote: ↑

04 Feb 2019, 12:59pm

WestwayKid wrote: ↑

04 Feb 2019, 12:08pm

This will never happen - and maybe it shouldn't happen even if it could - but a "daydream release" for me would be if they took the CtC multi tracks - saved Joe's vocals - and then rerecorded the music - maybe using the Lucky 8 demos as a guide - with Paul, Nick, Pete and maybe even Vince if he promises to behave. There are some decent songs - but all of the Bernie-ness would need to be stripped away.

I've suggested this a few times over the years, as have others. Anyone with an ounce of sense knows there's some good songs on there (I will never subscribe to the "This Is England is the only good song on it" cliche), but yeah, it will never happen.

Plus some songs were better on CTC than live. "Dictator" for example, because it went from really boring to...interesting.

Are You Red...y was fantastic live AND studio.

This thing about TIE being the only good song though. How can you like the recorded works of the Clash and not think Three Card Trick is a good song? It's better than most of Combat Rock and a big chunk of S!

For all I disdain CtC and fail to see even its bernie-less potential, I’d certainly never subscribe to the TiE only quality song position. TCT is definitely a decent song, probably akin to Car Jamming for me. I don’t think Are You Redy is that good a song though and certainly wouldn’t have dictator live or studio. Musically and lyrically these are not interesting songs for me, as is WATC. North and South I like and Cool under Heat has some potential, the rest I’d rather forget about. All opinions I guess.

We just never got the chance to see how these songs might have developed had Joe not lost interest. My guess is that the finished versions would have sounded at least somewhat different than what is on the demos. It would have been interesting to hear how it might have sounded as so much of my opinion is based on the disaster that Bernie created with the tapes. Honestly - CtC is not even a Clash II recording as what we have is the creation of Bernard Rhodes.

Heston wrote: ↑

04 Feb 2019, 3:19pm

Low Down Low wrote: ↑

04 Feb 2019, 3:07pm

Heston wrote: ↑

04 Feb 2019, 1:36pm

matedog wrote: ↑

04 Feb 2019, 1:26pm

Heston wrote: ↑

04 Feb 2019, 12:59pm

I've suggested this a few times over the years, as have others. Anyone with an ounce of sense knows there's some good songs on there (I will never subscribe to the "This Is England is the only good song on it" cliche), but yeah, it will never happen.

Plus some songs were better on CTC than live. "Dictator" for example, because it went from really boring to...interesting.

Are You Red...y was fantastic live AND studio.

This thing about TIE being the only good song though. How can you like the recorded works of the Clash and not think Three Card Trick is a good song? It's better than most of Combat Rock and a big chunk of S!

For all I disdain CtC and fail to see even its bernie-less potential, I’d certainly never subscribe to the TiE only quality song position. TCT is definitely a decent song, probably akin to Car Jamming for me. I don’t think Are You Redy is that good a song though and certainly wouldn’t have dictator live or studio. Musically and lyrically these are not interesting songs for me, as is WATC. North and South I like and Cool under Heat has some potential, the rest I’d rather forget about. All opinions I guess.

I just always get the impression that the people who say TIE is the only good song on CtC have only ever heard that song.

I’d say likely true in many cases.

Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑

04 Feb 2019, 3:23pm

You don't need a cancer-sniffing dog to sense that some CtC revisionist insanity is about to erupt.

It's all a part of Bernie's masterplan!! Eventually we'll all believe that CtC is a masterpiece!!

Low Down Low wrote: ↑

04 Feb 2019, 3:33pm

Heston wrote: ↑

04 Feb 2019, 3:19pm

Low Down Low wrote: ↑

04 Feb 2019, 3:07pm

Heston wrote: ↑

04 Feb 2019, 1:36pm

matedog wrote: ↑

04 Feb 2019, 1:26pm

Plus some songs were better on CTC than live. "Dictator" for example, because it went from really boring to...interesting.

Are You Red...y was fantastic live AND studio.

This thing about TIE being the only good song though. How can you like the recorded works of the Clash and not think Three Card Trick is a good song? It's better than most of Combat Rock and a big chunk of S!

For all I disdain CtC and fail to see even its bernie-less potential, I’d certainly never subscribe to the TiE only quality song position. TCT is definitely a decent song, probably akin to Car Jamming for me. I don’t think Are You Redy is that good a song though and certainly wouldn’t have dictator live or studio. Musically and lyrically these are not interesting songs for me, as is WATC. North and South I like and Cool under Heat has some potential, the rest I’d rather forget about. All opinions I guess.

I just always get the impression that the people who say TIE is the only good song on CtC have only ever heard that song.

I’d say likely true in many cases.

CtC is not an easy album to get all the way through in one listen!

WestwayKid wrote: ↑

04 Feb 2019, 3:26pm

Low Down Low wrote: ↑

04 Feb 2019, 3:07pm

Heston wrote: ↑

04 Feb 2019, 1:36pm

matedog wrote: ↑

04 Feb 2019, 1:26pm

Heston wrote: ↑

04 Feb 2019, 12:59pm

I've suggested this a few times over the years, as have others. Anyone with an ounce of sense knows there's some good songs on there (I will never subscribe to the "This Is England is the only good song on it" cliche), but yeah, it will never happen.

Plus some songs were better on CTC than live. "Dictator" for example, because it went from really boring to...interesting.

Are You Red...y was fantastic live AND studio.

This thing about TIE being the only good song though. How can you like the recorded works of the Clash and not think Three Card Trick is a good song? It's better than most of Combat Rock and a big chunk of S!

For all I disdain CtC and fail to see even its bernie-less potential, I’d certainly never subscribe to the TiE only quality song position. TCT is definitely a decent song, probably akin to Car Jamming for me. I don’t think Are You Redy is that good a song though and certainly wouldn’t have dictator live or studio. Musically and lyrically these are not interesting songs for me, as is WATC. North and South I like and Cool under Heat has some potential, the rest I’d rather forget about. All opinions I guess.

We just never got the chance to see how these songs might have developed had Joe not lost interest. My guess is that the finished versions would have sounded at least somewhat different than what is on the demos. It would have been interesting to hear how it might have sounded as so much of my opinion is based on the disaster that Bernie created with the tapes. Honestly - CtC is not even a Clash II recording as what we have is the creation of Bernard Rhodes.

I’d definitely accept all that while remaining in the sceptic’s corner. And throw Glue Zombie and ITPR in there, maybe Sex Mad War - maybe - and you’ve got the bones of a record that doesn’t totally stink I believe.

Lyrically it could never be there though, and that’s a major hitch for me. TiE and TCT are excellent but whatever joe had at the time he got it all out in those 2 tracks. A couple of other decent ones but he’s just basically repeating himself I think.

Toppers Boppers wrote: ↑

04 Feb 2019, 10:16am

'Watch this space for 40th anniversary London Calling news' according to Record Collector last month. 19 pages of Clash...

https://recordcollectormag.com/issue-detail/488

Thanks

Low Down Low wrote: ↑

04 Feb 2019, 3:37pm

WestwayKid wrote: ↑

04 Feb 2019, 3:26pm

Low Down Low wrote: ↑

04 Feb 2019, 3:07pm

Heston wrote: ↑

04 Feb 2019, 1:36pm

matedog wrote: ↑

04 Feb 2019, 1:26pm

Plus some songs were better on CTC than live. "Dictator" for example, because it went from really boring to...interesting.

Are You Red...y was fantastic live AND studio.

This thing about TIE being the only good song though. How can you like the recorded works of the Clash and not think Three Card Trick is a good song? It's better than most of Combat Rock and a big chunk of S!

For all I disdain CtC and fail to see even its bernie-less potential, I’d certainly never subscribe to the TiE only quality song position. TCT is definitely a decent song, probably akin to Car Jamming for me. I don’t think Are You Redy is that good a song though and certainly wouldn’t have dictator live or studio. Musically and lyrically these are not interesting songs for me, as is WATC. North and South I like and Cool under Heat has some potential, the rest I’d rather forget about. All opinions I guess.

We just never got the chance to see how these songs might have developed had Joe not lost interest. My guess is that the finished versions would have sounded at least somewhat different than what is on the demos. It would have been interesting to hear how it might have sounded as so much of my opinion is based on the disaster that Bernie created with the tapes. Honestly - CtC is not even a Clash II recording as what we have is the creation of Bernard Rhodes.

I’d definitely accept all that while remaining in the sceptic’s corner. And throw Glue Zombie and ITPR in there, maybe Sex Mad War - maybe - and you’ve got the bones of a record that doesn’t totally stink I believe.

Lyrically it could never be there though, and that’s a major hitch for me. TiE and TCT are excellent but whatever joe had at the time he got it all out in those 2 tracks. A couple of other decent ones but he’s just basically repeating himself I think.

I agree and maybe the bigger problem with CtC was the fact that Joe's heart & mind was never really in it. Just consider the overall quality of the lyrics - not anywhere near Joe's normal standards.

WestwayKid wrote: ↑

04 Feb 2019, 3:34pm

Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑

04 Feb 2019, 3:23pm

You don't need a cancer-sniffing dog to sense that some CtC revisionist insanity is about to erupt.

It's all a part of Bernie's masterplan!! Eventually we'll all believe that CtC is a masterpiece!!

Sadly, that's no joke.

WestwayKid wrote: ↑

04 Feb 2019, 3:49pm

Low Down Low wrote: ↑

04 Feb 2019, 3:37pm

WestwayKid wrote: ↑

04 Feb 2019, 3:26pm

Low Down Low wrote: ↑

04 Feb 2019, 3:07pm

Heston wrote: ↑

04 Feb 2019, 1:36pm

Are You Red...y was fantastic live AND studio.

This thing about TIE being the only good song though. How can you like the recorded works of the Clash and not think Three Card Trick is a good song? It's better than most of Combat Rock and a big chunk of S!

For all I disdain CtC and fail to see even its bernie-less potential, I’d certainly never subscribe to the TiE only quality song position. TCT is definitely a decent song, probably akin to Car Jamming for me. I don’t think Are You Redy is that good a song though and certainly wouldn’t have dictator live or studio. Musically and lyrically these are not interesting songs for me, as is WATC. North and South I like and Cool under Heat has some potential, the rest I’d rather forget about. All opinions I guess.

We just never got the chance to see how these songs might have developed had Joe not lost interest. My guess is that the finished versions would have sounded at least somewhat different than what is on the demos. It would have been interesting to hear how it might have sounded as so much of my opinion is based on the disaster that Bernie created with the tapes. Honestly - CtC is not even a Clash II recording as what we have is the creation of Bernard Rhodes.

I’d definitely accept all that while remaining in the sceptic’s corner. And throw Glue Zombie and ITPR in there, maybe Sex Mad War - maybe - and you’ve got the bones of a record that doesn’t totally stink I believe.

Lyrically it could never be there though, and that’s a major hitch for me. TiE and TCT are excellent but whatever joe had at the time he got it all out in those 2 tracks. A couple of other decent ones but he’s just basically repeating himself I think.

I agree and maybe the bigger problem with CtC was the fact that Joe's heart & mind was never really in it. Just consider the overall quality of the lyrics - not anywhere near Joe's normal standards.

Punk rockers, hip hoppers,
Brit poppers, show stoppers,
Beboppers, hair droppers.
Are you ready to sing?

I’m sorry but no tune in the world is gonna carry that rubbish. As for “gonna get me a big big big, great big car...” I can only conclude it’s a conscious act of self sabotage at that point!

Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑

04 Feb 2019, 3:23pm

You don't need a cancer-sniffing dog to sense that some CtC revisionist insanity is about to erupt.

CtC: second best Clash record after GEER.

Low Down Low wrote: ↑

04 Feb 2019, 4:20pm

WestwayKid wrote: ↑

04 Feb 2019, 3:49pm

Low Down Low wrote: ↑

04 Feb 2019, 3:37pm

WestwayKid wrote: ↑

04 Feb 2019, 3:26pm

Low Down Low wrote: ↑

04 Feb 2019, 3:07pm

For all I disdain CtC and fail to see even its bernie-less potential, I’d certainly never subscribe to the TiE only quality song position. TCT is definitely a decent song, probably akin to Car Jamming for me. I don’t think Are You Redy is that good a song though and certainly wouldn’t have dictator live or studio. Musically and lyrically these are not interesting songs for me, as is WATC. North and South I like and Cool under Heat has some potential, the rest I’d rather forget about. All opinions I guess.

We just never got the chance to see how these songs might have developed had Joe not lost interest. My guess is that the finished versions would have sounded at least somewhat different than what is on the demos. It would have been interesting to hear how it might have sounded as so much of my opinion is based on the disaster that Bernie created with the tapes. Honestly - CtC is not even a Clash II recording as what we have is the creation of Bernard Rhodes.

I’d definitely accept all that while remaining in the sceptic’s corner. And throw Glue Zombie and ITPR in there, maybe Sex Mad War - maybe - and you’ve got the bones of a record that doesn’t totally stink I believe.

Lyrically it could never be there though, and that’s a major hitch for me. TiE and TCT are excellent but whatever joe had at the time he got it all out in those 2 tracks. A couple of other decent ones but he’s just basically repeating himself I think.

I agree and maybe the bigger problem with CtC was the fact that Joe's heart & mind was never really in it. Just consider the overall quality of the lyrics - not anywhere near Joe's normal standards.

Punk rockers, hip hoppers,
Brit poppers, show stoppers,
Beboppers, hair droppers.
Are you ready to sing?

I’m sorry but no tune in the world is gonna carry that rubbish. As for “gonna get me a big big big, great big car...” I can only conclude it’s a conscious act of self sabotage at that point!

I think it was at the minimum an unconscious act of self sabotage. If he had never shown any lyrical brilliance - or even just snippets - I'd just say he wasn't that talented - but we all know how talented he was.

Heston will be elected Pope before The Clash ever revisit Cut the Crap.

Probably for the best — no one really looks back on that time with any fondness, given how shitty the whole deal was for everyone. MJ was good enough to okay TiE for Essential Clash and the singles box, but I think that's all we'll ever get (apart from whatever bits and bobs end up on Strummer 002).

Sandinista's 40th (!!!) anniversary next year, so surely something must be in the works?

Flex wrote: ↑

04 Feb 2019, 4:35pm

Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑

04 Feb 2019, 3:23pm

You don't need a cancer-sniffing dog to sense that some CtC revisionist insanity is about to erupt.

CtC: second best Clash record after GEER.

Outbreak confirmed! Get the quarrantine tents up.

Whatever you think about CTC there are always some interesting and varied opinions on it. Personally I am still coming to terms with the fact that my favourite & IMHO the best band in the world finished with that as it's swansong.

As more information has been revealed about that period I feel terribly sorry for Nick, Pete & Vince who were subjected to relentless bullying and generally treated appallingly. To compound matters further they are (unfairly) associated with a record that is quite simply one of the worst that was ever made by a major artist.

Personally, I would like to see CTC revisited & revised because whatever the outcome it could not be as bad as the original.

deny