RAR's Greatest Hits LP - 'White Man'

[JohnS]

I'm reading 'Walls Come Tumbling Down' by Daniel Rachel, a book about the setting up of Rock Against Racism, 2-Tone and the Red Wedge movement - highly recommended. Tons of background info on things like the Clash's RAR Victoria Park gig, for example.
The 'Rock Against Racism's Greatest Hits' LP gets a mention of course. RAR's John Dennis worked with Virgin Records in producing it and he says, 'I had three different versions of the Clash's 'White Man In Hammersmith Palais' to choose from'...
Will the other two ever surface I wonder...? (Or, if one was the regular single version, the other one)

[Red Angel]

You put a great curiosity on me. I think the time has come for the record company to hire a really competent person to build a collection of songs not on official albums, outtakes, oddities, collaboratios, etc.

[Marky Dread]

I'm reading 'Walls Come Tumbling Down' by Daniel Rachel, a book about the setting up of Rock Against Racism, 2-Tone and the Red Wedge movement - highly recommended. Tons of background info on things like the Clash's RAR Victoria Park gig, for example.
The 'Rock Against Racism's Greatest Hits' LP gets a mention of course. RAR's John Dennis worked with Virgin Records in producing it and he says, 'I had three different versions of the Clash's 'White Man In Hammersmith Palais' to choose from'...
Will the other two ever surface I wonder...? (Or, if one was the regular single version, the other one)

I will take a guess that the third version is the take they cut for the dub over of the live take on Rude Boy. Recently I managed to separate this take from the live part and it's great. I will upload it as a remixed EP when I get time. It's also my favourite version.

[JohnS]

I will take a guess that the third version is the take they cut for the dub over of the live take on Rude Boy. Recently I managed to separate this take from the live part and it's great. I will upload it as a remixed EP when I get time. It's also my favourite version.

An excellent theory Marky, I forget the Rude Boy soundtrack tapes would have been kicking around at the time.
Mind you I reckon the track on the RAR album is the same backing track as the regular single with an alternate vocal take from Joe, not a whole new version, so possibly the band had further alternate-vocal take(s) to offer.
Re. your soundtrack extraction - yes please! For years I thought a genuine Rude Boy soundtrack LP had been released - John Peel played tracks from the film on his radio show and I'm certain I saw an LP-sized cardboard flyer with the film poster in the record racks once, which I thought was an actual record cover.... but maybe I'm imaging this. For some reason I didn't investigate it further, and carried on browsing!!

[Wolter]

I will take a guess that the third version is the take they cut for the dub over of the live take on Rude Boy. Recently I managed to separate this take from the live part and it's great. I will upload it as a remixed EP when I get time. It's also my favourite version.

An excellent theory Marky, I forget the Rude Boy soundtrack tapes would have been kicking around at the time.
Mind you I reckon the track on the RAR album is the same backing track as the regular single with an alternate vocal take from Joe, not a whole new version, so possibly the band had further alternate-vocal take(s) to offer.
Re. your soundtrack extraction - yes please! For years I thought a genuine Rude Boy soundtrack LP had been released - John Peel played tracks from the film on his radio show and I'm certain I saw an LP-sized cardboard flyer with the film poster in the record racks once, which I thought was an actual record cover.... but maybe I'm imaging this. For some reason I didn't investigate it further, and carried on browsing!!

I’m really surprised a super-cleaned up Rude Boy soundtrack was never officially released. I’d be far more interested in that than Shea.

[Marky Dread]

I will take a guess that the third version is the take they cut for the dub over of the live take on Rude Boy. Recently I managed to separate this take from the live part and it's great. I will upload it as a remixed EP when I get time. It's also my favourite version.

An excellent theory Marky, I forget the Rude Boy soundtrack tapes would have been kicking around at the time.
Mind you I reckon the track on the RAR album is the same backing track as the regular single with an alternate vocal take from Joe, not a whole new version, so possibly the band had further alternate-vocal take(s) to offer.
Re. your soundtrack extraction - yes please! For years I thought a genuine Rude Boy soundtrack LP had been released - John Peel played tracks from the film on his radio show and I'm certain I saw an LP-sized cardboard flyer with the film poster in the record racks once, which I thought was an actual record cover.... but maybe I'm imaging this. For some reason I didn't investigate it further, and carried on browsing!!

From the Rude Boy soundtrack (WM) i HP is the only track I've been able to fully separate all the others are mixed fully over the live take. I would love just the dubs. I will upload my version in a day or so in the Marky Dread Remasters page so everyone can easily find it.

[Red Angel]

After the publication of M.D.'s (White Man) In Hammersmith Palais E.P. (many thanks of course) I am a bit confused. According to Keith Topping on the book "The Complete Clash" (page 145) White Man (single) was recorded at CBS Studios in February 1978 and produced by the band, subsequently another version produced by Sandy Pearlman was recorded at Basing Street Studios and used for the LP RAR. Now the beautiful EP of M.D. has track 2 as an alternate mix not alternate version and track 3 is a completely different version. Perhaps for track 2 Sandy Pearlman used the basic-track recorded at CBS studios and made new overdubs (vocals and more)? Or what else?

[Marky Dread]

After the publication of M.D.'s (White Man) In Hammersmith Palais E.P. (many thanks of course) I am a bit confused. According to Keith Topping on the book "The Complete Clash" (page 145) White Man (single) was recorded at CBS Studios in February 1978 and produced by the band, subsequently another version produced by Sandy Pearlman was recorded at Basing Street Studios and used for the LP RAR. Now the beautiful EP of M.D. has track 2 as an alternate mix not alternate version and track 3 is a completely different version. Perhaps for track 2 Sandy Pearlman used the basic-track recorded at CBS studios and made new overdubs (vocals and more)? Or what else?

The single version and the RAR version use the same backing track with just an alternate vocal by Joe. Listening to the lyrics it would suggest the RAR version was recorded first and then the single with a better lyric and a stronger vocal take next. The 3rd track was recorded at Basing St. Studios with the band playing along with the live footage used for the Rude Boy which wasn't up to scratch. All the Rude Boy live footage was dubbed.

[Heston]

The single version and the RAR version use the same backing track with just an alternate vocal by Joe. Listening to the lyrics it would suggest the RAR version was recorded first and then the single with a better lyric and a stronger vocal take next.

Yeah, it sounds like a guide vocal and rough mix to me on the RAR version. The type of thing the band would take home for reference before the final vocal and proper mix was done. They probably just handed one of these rough mixes to RAR as an alternate version.

[Marky Dread]

The single version and the RAR version use the same backing track with just an alternate vocal by Joe. Listening to the lyrics it would suggest the RAR version was recorded first and then the single with a better lyric and a stronger vocal take next.

Yeah, it sounds like a guide vocal and rough mix to me on the RAR version. The type of thing the band would take home for reference before the final vocal and proper mix was done. They probably just handed one of these rough mixes to RAR as an alternate version.

That is exactly my thoughts. In the RAR version it doesn't feel like Joe is really pushing himself.

[Heston]

The single version and the RAR version use the same backing track with just an alternate vocal by Joe. Listening to the lyrics it would suggest the RAR version was recorded first and then the single with a better lyric and a stronger vocal take next.

Yeah, it sounds like a guide vocal and rough mix to me on the RAR version. The type of thing the band would take home for reference before the final vocal and proper mix was done. They probably just handed one of these rough mixes to RAR as an alternate version.

That is exactly my thoughts. In the RAR version it doesn't feel like Joe is really pushing himself.

Yeah. The Pearlman thing is a bit of a mystery. White Man doesn't seem to have his stamp on it anywhere, yet he is listed as co-producer on Wiki. I'm pretty sure the original vinyl just had "Produced by the Clash" on the label.

[Marky Dread]

The single version and the RAR version use the same backing track with just an alternate vocal by Joe. Listening to the lyrics it would suggest the RAR version was recorded first and then the single with a better lyric and a stronger vocal take next.

Yeah, it sounds like a guide vocal and rough mix to me on the RAR version. The type of thing the band would take home for reference before the final vocal and proper mix was done. They probably just handed one of these rough mixes to RAR as an alternate version.

That is exactly my thoughts. In the RAR version it doesn't feel like Joe is really pushing himself.

Yeah. The Pearlman thing is a bit of a mystery. White Man doesn't seem to have his stamp on it anywhere, yet he is listed as co-producer on Wiki. I'm pretty sure the original vinyl just had "Produced by the Clash" on the label.

(White Man) doesn't sound anything like GEER. As you claim it sounded thin and tinny it's anything but a Pearlman production and almost as if the band went completely against that sound.

[Red Angel]

After the publication of M.D.'s (White Man) In Hammersmith Palais E.P. (many thanks of course) I am a bit confused. According to Keith Topping on the book "The Complete Clash" (page 145) White Man (single) was recorded at CBS Studios in February 1978 and produced by the band, subsequently another version produced by Sandy Pearlman was recorded at Basing Street Studios and used for the LP RAR. Now the beautiful EP of M.D. has track 2 as an alternate mix not alternate version and track 3 is a completely different version. Perhaps for track 2 Sandy Pearlman used the basic-track recorded at CBS studios and made new overdubs (vocals and more)? Or what else?

The single version and the RAR version use the same backing track with just an alternate vocal by Joe. Listening to the lyrics it would suggest the RAR version was recorded first and then the single with a better lyric and a stronger vocal take next. The 3rd track was recorded at Basing St. Studios with the band playing along with the live footage used for the Rude Boy which wasn't up to scratch. All the Rude Boy live footage was dubbed.

Thanks for the valuable and detailed information