A Tasty #eetweek Treat

[Kory]

Bernie gets all the flack. But I sincerely think Joe sabotaged his own record.

Two questions then:
1) Consciously?
2) Why would he do that?

I can perhaps appreciate his depression encouraging a loss of purpose and all, but it doesn't seem in character to release something that fans would think is a rip off. As much as he may have been engaging in a self-loathing at some level, I have a harder time believing he'd deliberately fuck over his fans.

1. Yes Joe knew the band couldn't cut the mustard.

2. Because Mick wasn't coming back.

This doesn't really explain the rationale. What did he hope to gain?

[Dr. Medulla]

Bernie gets all the flack. But I sincerely think Joe sabotaged his own record.

Two questions then:
1) Consciously?
2) Why would he do that?

I can perhaps appreciate his depression encouraging a loss of purpose and all, but it doesn't seem in character to release something that fans would think is a rip off. As much as he may have been engaging in a self-loathing at some level, I have a harder time believing he'd deliberately fuck over his fans.

1. Yes Joe knew the band couldn't cut the mustard.

2. Because Mick wasn't coming back.

So Joe was basically petty, everyone else be damned? Maybe, but that's a really harsh assessment of the man.

[Marky Dread]

Bernie gets all the flack. But I sincerely think Joe sabotaged his own record.

Two questions then:
1) Consciously?
2) Why would he do that?

I can perhaps appreciate his depression encouraging a loss of purpose and all, but it doesn't seem in character to release something that fans would think is a rip off. As much as he may have been engaging in a self-loathing at some level, I have a harder time believing he'd deliberately fuck over his fans.

1. Yes Joe knew the band couldn't cut the mustard.

2. Because Mick wasn't coming back.

This doesn't really explain the rationale. What did he hope to gain?

Nothing the game was up. Joe telling Johnny Green that the new band were terrible after a show. I can't believe Joe who loved music with a passion and was in love with rock n roll romantism would ever had given those crap sounding synth and electronic drums a go otherwise. Complete sabotage on those songs he had spent so long working up.

[Marky Dread]

Bernie gets all the flack. But I sincerely think Joe sabotaged his own record.

Two questions then:
1) Consciously?
2) Why would he do that?

I can perhaps appreciate his depression encouraging a loss of purpose and all, but it doesn't seem in character to release something that fans would think is a rip off. As much as he may have been engaging in a self-loathing at some level, I have a harder time believing he'd deliberately fuck over his fans.

1. Yes Joe knew the band couldn't cut the mustard.

2. Because Mick wasn't coming back.

So Joe was basically petty, everyone else be damned? Maybe, but that's a really harsh assessment of the man.

Is it really? I don't think so. Years later Joe said he hoped he hadn't fucked up the other guys too much. I mean Pete who was already a member of The Clash while Mick was still in the band hardly features on Cut the Crap.

[Flex]

I think Joe was feeling a bunch of contradictory stuff around that time, and realized he fucked up pretty bad as a leader and colleague after the fact, but no account Ive read suggests to me that in the moment he deliberately tried to sabotage the album. Mark II as a whole, maybe, in some desperate attempt to get out from under Bernie's thumb, but I think that came after the recording of the record.

[Dr. Medulla]

Yeah, it's the deliberate aspect that I stumble over. He contributed mightily to the mess, but that he actively sought it to be a mess doesn't fit well with what we know about the man, even in that mental state.

[Kory]

I think Joe was feeling a bunch of contradictory stuff around that time, and realized he fucked up pretty bad as a leader and colleague after the fact, but no account Ive read suggests to me that in the moment he deliberately tried to sabotage the album. Mark II as a whole, maybe, in some desperate attempt to get out from under Bernie's thumb, but I think that came after the recording of the record.

Adding those synths and so on doesn't seem to me to be a deliberate attempt to sabotage anything. Unconscious, certainly—even a desparate bid to catch up with the technology of the times, but it doesn't ring true as some kind of sick joke played on the fans in order to torpedo the band's legacy and be done with it.

[Marky Dread]

Joe spoke about taking out an ad in the music press. About boycotting the release of CtC and re-recording the whole thing. This didn't happen and he chose to run away to Spain instead.

If Joe felt so strongly about CtC being a mess why didn't he take the re-recording option and restore some faith to the name of The Clash instead of leaving it to be the final hurrah.

[Marky Dread]

I think Joe was feeling a bunch of contradictory stuff around that time, and realized he fucked up pretty bad as a leader and colleague after the fact, but no account Ive read suggests to me that in the moment he deliberately tried to sabotage the album. Mark II as a whole, maybe, in some desperate attempt to get out from under Bernie's thumb, but I think that came after the recording of the record.

Adding those synths and so on doesn't seem to me to be a deliberate attempt to sabotage anything. Unconscious, certainly—even a desparate bid to catch up with the technology of the times, but it doesn't ring true as some kind of sick joke played on the fans in order to torpedo the band's legacy and be done with it.

I saw them live and they were getting it together considering the main songwriter had gone. But CtC is the most spectacular fall from grace of any band I can think of. I'm not saying the songs were bad they weren't but that production is a complete joke. Joe must've heard some if not all of it before it was released. I mean he was there in Munich.

[Marky Dread]

Another couple of things that occur to me. Joe had no problem re-recording Rat Patrol to become Combat Rock. Joe also heard BAD and told Mick it was the biggest pile of crap he had ever heard. Yet people here are saying he wanted to use the new tech.

[matedog]

I think Joe was feeling a bunch of contradictory stuff around that time, and realized he fucked up pretty bad as a leader and colleague after the fact, but no account Ive read suggests to me that in the moment he deliberately tried to sabotage the album. Mark II as a whole, maybe, in some desperate attempt to get out from under Bernie's thumb, but I think that came after the recording of the record.

Adding those synths and so on doesn't seem to me to be a deliberate attempt to sabotage anything. Unconscious, certainly—even a desparate bid to catch up with the technology of the times, but it doesn't ring true as some kind of sick joke played on the fans in order to torpedo the band's legacy and be done with it.

From the books and docs and what not, I always thought he put full faith in Bernie's direction for CTC and more or less blindly followed him. I also think he had a bunch of contradictory feelings at the time, but convinced himself of Bernie's approach eventhough he probably knew better. When it failed miserably, it probably confirmed that voice in the back of his head.

[Dr. Medulla]

From the books and docs and what not, I always thought he put full faith in Bernie's direction for CTC and more or less blindly followed him. I also think he had a bunch of contradictory feelings at the time, but convinced himself of Bernie's approach eventhough he probably knew better. When it failed miserably, it probably confirmed that voice in the back of his head.

That last part is key for trying to understand the depressed mind. There's an expectation of failure because your head tells you you're a failure, and when it happens it "proves" that that sick part of brain is right. It proved he failed in letting Mick go, that he failed as a leader for the new band, and that he failed at creating a good record for the fans, and he deserved the scorn for the failures. Lather, rinse, repeat.

[Heston]

Never forget he shouted "Cuba!" when he heard an early mix of "Fingerpoppin."

[Marky Dread]

Never forget he shouted "Cuba!" when he heard an early mix of "Fingerpoppin."

He should've shouted "fuck is this shit!".

[Marky Dread]

Never forget he shouted "Cuba!" when he heard an early mix of "Fingerpoppin."

He should've shouted "fuck is this shit!".

Fingerpoppin' makes Cool Confusion sound epic.