Clash Live Series (Only an idea)

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Heston
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Re: Clash Live Series (Only an idea)

Post by Heston »

Telecaster wrote:
23 Sep 2020, 1:04pm
That would be very interesting to hear. City Of The Dead sounds amazing with the overdubs. Topper's drumming really drives the whole song. If enough overdub components are intact, it makes a live studio album.
Wasn't aware City of the Dead had overdubs. Just the Rude Boy stuff.
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Re: Clash Live Series (Only an idea)

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Marky Dread wrote:
23 Sep 2020, 1:09pm
Inder wrote:
23 Sep 2020, 1:03pm
matedog wrote:
23 Sep 2020, 12:24pm
Marky Dread wrote:
23 Sep 2020, 12:19pm

...However I would love to know if just the overdub material without the "live" feed is still available. Those tracks were played on screen with The Clash playing along while they dubbed their parts over the top.

Imagine those tracks without the crowd and band being heard underneath. You've then got some great studio takes.
Are you referring to the Rude Boy songs? As far as I know, that's the only known studio overdubs on live tracks right?
I'm almost certain I've read that Mick punched up/sweetened some tracks for FHTE as well.
Is this true? I was under the impression it was just those tracks that had already been dubbed for "Rude Boy". Although this makes me wonder if there were any tracks that were dubbed for "Rude Boy" and not used at the time.
Same here. Only ever read of the Rude Boy tracks getting any overdubs
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Re: Clash Live Series (Only an idea)

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My thought is that the Rude Boy tracks were largely entire studio creations with the exception of the Lyceum stuff. We know they recorded the Lyceum stuff professionally so the overdubs are minimal, if it all. The vocals seem to be a likely candidate though. For non-Lyceum, I see "London's Burning" from RAR as clear evidence that the drums are entirely rerecorded - Topper plays a fill at the end of the intro that does not match the fill he's playing in the footage. If the drums are new recordings, I imagine everything would be rerecorded - it seems unlikely they'd have Topper play along to Joe's or Paul's live performances for example. Furthermore, we have no soundboards of any of the shows except Lyceum so any original audio would be maybe some of what the film crew caught that you maybe hear before the songs. It doesn't help that the audience recordings from the Rude Boy shows are pretty dire.
Look, you have to establish context for these things. And I maintain that unless you appreciate the Fall of Constantinople, the Great Fire of London, and Mickey Mantle's fatalist alcoholism, live Freddy makes no sense. If you want to half-ass it, fine, go call Simon Schama to do the appendix.

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Re: Clash Live Series (Only an idea)

Post by Marky Dread »

matedog wrote:
23 Sep 2020, 1:51pm
My thought is that the Rude Boy tracks were largely entire studio creations with the exception of the Lyceum stuff. We know they recorded the Lyceum stuff professionally so the overdubs are minimal, if it all. The vocals seem to be a likely candidate though. For non-Lyceum, I see "London's Burning" from RAR as clear evidence that the drums are entirely rerecorded - Topper plays a fill at the end of the intro that does not match the fill he's playing in the footage. If the drums are new recordings, I imagine everything would be rerecorded - it seems unlikely they'd have Topper play along to Joe's or Paul's live performances for example. Furthermore, we have no soundboards of any of the shows except Lyceum so any original audio would be maybe some of what the film crew caught that you maybe hear before the songs. It doesn't help that the audience recordings from the Rude Boy shows are pretty dire.
Yes that's it they set it up in the studio as a full band and played along to the film footage.

Then it was all mixed in together with the crowd cheers etc mixed up louder at the start and end of the tracks to give the live feel. If you listen carefully you can hear the dubbed vocal and the live vocal of the film footage on track such as (WM) iHP.
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Re: Clash Live Series (Only an idea)

Post by Telecaster »

sorry everyone. Got my shows mixed up. I always thought City Of The Dead on FHTE had some work done on it, forgot it was The Lyceum.

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Re: Clash Live Series (Only an idea)

Post by Marky Dread »

Telecaster wrote:
23 Sep 2020, 3:56pm
sorry everyone. Got my shows mixed up. I always thought City Of The Dead on FHTE had some work done on it, forgot it was The Lyceum.
I remember that there was some talk about the Lyceum show having overdubs. It may have come from Johnny Green. But don't quote me on that. It was decided on listening that it's just the other "Rude Boy" tracks. The Lyceum show was recorded on a 16 track mobile studio.
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Re: Clash Live Series (Only an idea)

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As many issues as there are with FHTE, it is still my favorite official live Clash document. Especially the expanded version they did with Sound System.
Look, you have to establish context for these things. And I maintain that unless you appreciate the Fall of Constantinople, the Great Fire of London, and Mickey Mantle's fatalist alcoholism, live Freddy makes no sense. If you want to half-ass it, fine, go call Simon Schama to do the appendix.

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Re: Clash Live Series (Only an idea)

Post by Heston »

matedog wrote:
23 Sep 2020, 5:30pm
As many issues as there are with FHTE, it is still my favorite official live Clash document. Especially the expanded version they did with Sound System.
Wasn't the live mixing awful on Sound System?
There's a tiny, tiny hopeful part of me that says you guys are running a Kaufmanesque long con on the board

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Re: Clash Live Series (Only an idea)

Post by Marky Dread »

Heston wrote:
23 Sep 2020, 5:34pm
matedog wrote:
23 Sep 2020, 5:30pm
As many issues as there are with FHTE, it is still my favorite official live Clash document. Especially the expanded version they did with Sound System.
Wasn't the live mixing awful on Sound System?
Terrible by contrast.
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Re: Clash Live Series (Only an idea)

Post by TeddyB Not Logged In »

Heston wrote:
23 Sep 2020, 5:34pm
matedog wrote:
23 Sep 2020, 5:30pm
As many issues as there are with FHTE, it is still my favorite official live Clash document. Especially the expanded version they did with Sound System.
Wasn't the live mixing awful on Sound System?
I thought only on the separate Lyceum tracks. The FHTE was the same mixes, plus the two added songs. Maybe the mastering was a bit hot, but I like the Sound System mastering best in general (original vinyl aside).

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Re: Clash Live Series (Only an idea)

Post by Flex »

TeddyB Not Logged In wrote:
23 Sep 2020, 7:12pm
I thought only on the separate Lyceum tracks. The FHTE was the same mixes, plus the two added songs. Maybe the mastering was a bit hot, but I like the Sound System mastering best in general (original vinyl aside).
Yeah, it was just Lyceum (although I actually liked the rough sound, gave it a real dirty punk rock vibe).

With the passage of years the verdict, for me, is they did a real good job with Sound System overall. Minorest of quibbles aside, it's how a catalog should be treated, imho.
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Re: Clash Live Series (Only an idea)

Post by JChampion »

Red Angel wrote:
17 Jan 2020, 4:57am
Every new official release is welcome, in the meantime I rely on M.D. :!:
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Re: Clash Live Series (Only an idea)

Post by Inder »

Heston wrote:
23 Sep 2020, 1:42pm
Marky Dread wrote:
23 Sep 2020, 1:09pm
Inder wrote:
23 Sep 2020, 1:03pm
matedog wrote:
23 Sep 2020, 12:24pm
Marky Dread wrote:
23 Sep 2020, 12:19pm

...However I would love to know if just the overdub material without the "live" feed is still available. Those tracks were played on screen with The Clash playing along while they dubbed their parts over the top.

Imagine those tracks without the crowd and band being heard underneath. You've then got some great studio takes.
Are you referring to the Rude Boy songs? As far as I know, that's the only known studio overdubs on live tracks right?
I'm almost certain I've read that Mick punched up/sweetened some tracks for FHTE as well.
Is this true? I was under the impression it was just those tracks that had already been dubbed for "Rude Boy". Although this makes me wonder if there were any tracks that were dubbed for "Rude Boy" and not used at the time.
Same here. Only ever read of the Rude Boy tracks getting any overdubs
I can't at all recall where I read this, but I do remember someone saying they did some work to cover up a few too-rough edges. Maybe I'm thinking of Shea. Or maybe I'm just making this up.

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Re: Clash Live Series (Only an idea)

Post by matedog »

TeddyB Not Logged In wrote:
23 Sep 2020, 7:12pm
Heston wrote:
23 Sep 2020, 5:34pm
matedog wrote:
23 Sep 2020, 5:30pm
As many issues as there are with FHTE, it is still my favorite official live Clash document. Especially the expanded version they did with Sound System.
Wasn't the live mixing awful on Sound System?
I thought only on the separate Lyceum tracks. The FHTE was the same mixes, plus the two added songs. Maybe the mastering was a bit hot, but I like the Sound System mastering best in general (original vinyl aside).
I thought the word was the FHTE bonus tracks were mixed and completed when FHTE was completed and removed to tighten up the track list. The other sound system live stuff was like a rough soundboard that sounded worse than previous versions of IFTL and ECW that we’ve got from those same performances on COB.
Look, you have to establish context for these things. And I maintain that unless you appreciate the Fall of Constantinople, the Great Fire of London, and Mickey Mantle's fatalist alcoholism, live Freddy makes no sense. If you want to half-ass it, fine, go call Simon Schama to do the appendix.

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Re: Clash Live Series (Only an idea)

Post by TeddyB Not Logged In »

matedog wrote:
23 Sep 2020, 10:21pm
TeddyB Not Logged In wrote:
23 Sep 2020, 7:12pm
Heston wrote:
23 Sep 2020, 5:34pm
matedog wrote:
23 Sep 2020, 5:30pm
As many issues as there are with FHTE, it is still my favorite official live Clash document. Especially the expanded version they did with Sound System.
Wasn't the live mixing awful on Sound System?
I thought only on the separate Lyceum tracks. The FHTE was the same mixes, plus the two added songs. Maybe the mastering was a bit hot, but I like the Sound System mastering best in general (original vinyl aside).
I thought the word was the FHTE bonus tracks were mixed and completed when FHTE was completed and removed to tighten up the track list. The other sound system live stuff was like a rough soundboard that sounded worse than previous versions of IFTL and ECW that we’ve got from those same performances on COB.

That’s basically right.

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