If Music Could Talk

Marky Dread wrote: ↑

28 Jan 2020, 4:06pm

(White Man) in Hammersmith Palais.

Two versions the official 7" single and the RAR version.

Both versions are the same backing track with different vocal takes.

You have it listed as February 1978 CBS studios.

But I think it was part of the Marquee sessions originally from March 1978 that was produced by Mick Jones and using Simon Humphrey as the engineer.

Then the second vocal take that is the single version produced with Pearlman in April.

TeddyB Not Logged In wrote: ↑

28 Jan 2020, 5:56pm

Marky Dread wrote: ↑

28 Jan 2020, 4:06pm

(White Man) in Hammersmith Palais.

Two versions the official 7" single and the RAR version.

Both versions are the same backing track with different vocal takes.

You have it listed as February 1978 CBS studios.

But I think it was part of the Marquee sessions originally from March 1978 that was produced by Mick Jones and using Simon Humphrey as the engineer.

Then the second vocal take that is the single version produced with Pearlman in April.

But the single doesn’t sound like a Pearlman mix, even without his usual engineer.

Heston wrote: ↑

28 Jan 2020, 6:01pm

Gotta say I would have been interested to hear a full GEER-style Pearlman production on White Man. But not as much as I would loved to have heard Bill Price to do it with a CoL EP-style production. I love White Man but something still rankles me about its flat, tinny sound.

TeddyB Not Logged In wrote: ↑

28 Jan 2020, 5:54pm

Marky Dread wrote: ↑

28 Jan 2020, 3:20pm

"Groovy Times Are Here Again"

Recorded at Utopia studios May '78. This is the rough sounding demo which I think is Pearlman.

I agree with CK that Gates of the West and Groovy Times sound very much like Pearlman productions in the vein of Blue Oyster Cult. Then they were finished of (mixed) by Bill Price at Wessex Sound, Highbury, London.

Yeah, but it’s also likely that they cut “Ooh Baby Ooh” with Sandy, and then when it didn’t make the short list for GEER, wrote the new “Gates” lyric and cut the new vocals with Bill. No idea where “Rusted Chrome” fits into this, perhaps Joe’s first attempt at a new lyric for the riff, maybe to try at the Automatt?

Marky Dread wrote: ↑

28 Jan 2020, 4:06pm

(White Man) in Hammersmith Palais.

Two versions the official 7" single and the RAR version.

Both versions are the same backing track with different vocal takes.

You have it listed as February 1978 CBS studios.

But I think it was part of the Marquee sessions originally from March 1978 that was produced by Mick Jones and using Simon Humphrey as the engineer.

Then the second vocal take that is the single version produced with Pearlman in April.

matedog wrote: ↑

29 Jan 2020, 11:46am

Marky Dread wrote: ↑

28 Jan 2020, 4:06pm

(White Man) in Hammersmith Palais.

Two versions the official 7" single and the RAR version.

Both versions are the same backing track with different vocal takes.

You have it listed as February 1978 CBS studios.

But I think it was part of the Marquee sessions originally from March 1978 that was produced by Mick Jones and using Simon Humphrey as the engineer.

Then the second vocal take that is the single version produced with Pearlman in April.

I listed it as February 78 from Complete Clash. What source says March? I'm assuming that would have been with all the other tracks from that March session? I'm a bit skeptical as those March recordings sound a lot better than WMHP. Less thin than the WMHP as Heston noted.

matedog wrote: ↑

29 Jan 2020, 11:43am

TeddyB Not Logged In wrote: ↑

28 Jan 2020, 5:54pm

Marky Dread wrote: ↑

28 Jan 2020, 3:20pm

"Groovy Times Are Here Again"

Recorded at Utopia studios May '78. This is the rough sounding demo which I think is Pearlman.

I agree with CK that Gates of the West and Groovy Times sound very much like Pearlman productions in the vein of Blue Oyster Cult. Then they were finished of (mixed) by Bill Price at Wessex Sound, Highbury, London.

Yeah, but it’s also likely that they cut “Ooh Baby Ooh” with Sandy, and then when it didn’t make the short list for GEER, wrote the new “Gates” lyric and cut the new vocals with Bill. No idea where “Rusted Chrome” fits into this, perhaps Joe’s first attempt at a new lyric for the riff, maybe to try at the Automatt?

I initially thought that and it would make for a clear timeline, but on brief review, Ooh Baby Ooh is a different take than Gates of the West. Topper plays a drag into each fill in the intro/first verse on Gates, but only on the first time on Ooh. Unless the low fidelity is masking it, but that's what I'm hearing on cursory listen. I still think Gates was initially recorded with Sandy based on the notes from the books I've referenced and finished (meaning vocals, guitar overdubs) with Bill Price, so I'm not sure where Ooh falls in the timeline.

Marky Dread wrote: ↑

29 Jan 2020, 12:04pm

matedog wrote: ↑

29 Jan 2020, 11:46am

Marky Dread wrote: ↑

28 Jan 2020, 4:06pm

(White Man) in Hammersmith Palais.

Two versions the official 7" single and the RAR version.

Both versions are the same backing track with different vocal takes.

You have it listed as February 1978 CBS studios.

But I think it was part of the Marquee sessions originally from March 1978 that was produced by Mick Jones and using Simon Humphrey as the engineer.

Then the second vocal take that is the single version produced with Pearlman in April.

I listed it as February 78 from Complete Clash. What source says March? I'm assuming that would have been with all the other tracks from that March session? I'm a bit skeptical as those March recordings sound a lot better than WMHP. Less thin than the WMHP as Heston noted.

Passion is a Fashion.

matedog wrote: ↑

29 Jan 2020, 12:18pm

Marky Dread wrote: ↑

29 Jan 2020, 12:04pm

matedog wrote: ↑

29 Jan 2020, 11:46am

Marky Dread wrote: ↑

28 Jan 2020, 4:06pm

(White Man) in Hammersmith Palais.

Two versions the official 7" single and the RAR version.

Both versions are the same backing track with different vocal takes.

You have it listed as February 1978 CBS studios.

But I think it was part of the Marquee sessions originally from March 1978 that was produced by Mick Jones and using Simon Humphrey as the engineer.

Then the second vocal take that is the single version produced with Pearlman in April.

I listed it as February 78 from Complete Clash. What source says March? I'm assuming that would have been with all the other tracks from that March session? I'm a bit skeptical as those March recordings sound a lot better than WMHP. Less thin than the WMHP as Heston noted.

Passion is a Fashion.

I'll double check some sources, but this might be a situation where one source says one thing, the other says another. If that's the case, I'll just make a note about the conflict.

Marky Dread wrote: ↑

29 Jan 2020, 12:57pm

I think Pat Gilbert has it correct. I think (White man) is from the Marquee session. It makes sense to me they worked on it with the Prisoner/1-2/Pressure that they reworked from the previous Oct CBS session. Again using the same backing tracks with Mick adding more guitar and other overruns like harmonica and the saxophone from Gary Barnacle.

JohnS wrote: ↑

29 Jan 2020, 1:47pm

Marky Dread wrote: ↑

29 Jan 2020, 12:57pm

I think Pat Gilbert has it correct. I think (White man) is from the Marquee session. It makes sense to me they worked on it with the Prisoner/1-2/Pressure that they reworked from the previous Oct CBS session. Again using the same backing tracks with Mick adding more guitar and other overruns like harmonica and the saxophone from Gary Barnacle.

On reflection I think there is a similar audio feel and flavour between White Man and 1-2 Crush On You / The Prisoner / Pressure Drop - same sort of 'room sound', guitar tone and so on. They were all released roughly the same time, unlike Time Is Tight which didn't surface until 1980 (in a remixed form, so doesn't match up as well) So yeah, I'd put White Man down as from the Marquee Studios sessions.

Kory wrote: ↑

29 Jan 2020, 2:57pm

JohnS wrote: ↑

29 Jan 2020, 1:47pm

Marky Dread wrote: ↑

29 Jan 2020, 12:57pm

I think Pat Gilbert has it correct. I think (White man) is from the Marquee session. It makes sense to me they worked on it with the Prisoner/1-2/Pressure that they reworked from the previous Oct CBS session. Again using the same backing tracks with Mick adding more guitar and other overruns like harmonica and the saxophone from Gary Barnacle.

On reflection I think there is a similar audio feel and flavour between White Man and 1-2 Crush On You / The Prisoner / Pressure Drop - same sort of 'room sound', guitar tone and so on. They were all released roughly the same time, unlike Time Is Tight which didn't surface until 1980 (in a remixed form, so doesn't match up as well) So yeah, I'd put White Man down as from the Marquee Studios sessions.

Yeah I was going to say the guitar sounds remarkably similar.

matedog wrote: ↑

29 Jan 2020, 4:36pm

Kory wrote: ↑

29 Jan 2020, 2:57pm

JohnS wrote: ↑

29 Jan 2020, 1:47pm

Marky Dread wrote: ↑

29 Jan 2020, 12:57pm

I think Pat Gilbert has it correct. I think (White man) is from the Marquee session. It makes sense to me they worked on it with the Prisoner/1-2/Pressure that they reworked from the previous Oct CBS session. Again using the same backing tracks with Mick adding more guitar and other overruns like harmonica and the saxophone from Gary Barnacle.

On reflection I think there is a similar audio feel and flavour between White Man and 1-2 Crush On You / The Prisoner / Pressure Drop - same sort of 'room sound', guitar tone and so on. They were all released roughly the same time, unlike Time Is Tight which didn't surface until 1980 (in a remixed form, so doesn't match up as well) So yeah, I'd put White Man down as from the Marquee Studios sessions.

Yeah I was going to say the guitar sounds remarkably similar.

I'll defer to the group then. I always thought the b-sides sounded way better than WMHP, but that could be just that uptempo rockers hide the recording deficiencies better than a slower, relatively sparser song.