To be fair, I've been playing devil's advocate a bit with some of my comments, I'm not sure where I stand on this to be honest. Should a drummer who lays down a generic beat get the same slice of the pie as someone who slaves over a lyric/tune for weeks on end? I suppose every song is different and has a different writing dynamic. But aren't musicians paid performance royalties separate to writing royalties? I know they are smaller but it's still a recognition of their work.Kory wrote: ↑24 Jan 2020, 5:17pmPeople can run their bands however they want, but the lyrics/melody thing is archaic and needs a re-examination. It causes friction, and doesn't make sense in the context of pop music (see my a cappella comment). I've never thought that songwriting was such a pain in the ass that I deserved more money for writing a melody than does the drummer for coming up with the perfect beat to go along with it, or the guitarist for coming up with the hook that makes the song. A band should be an equal partnership with everyone putting in what they able to in order to finish a song, if not start it. Otherwise you have a solo artist with a backing band and should be honest about it if that's the case, starting with paying salaries to the other musicians. A band is either a collective effort, or an employer/employee relationship.
The Clash songwriting credits after London Calling
- Heston
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Re: The Clash songwriting credits after London Calling
There's a tiny, tiny hopeful part of me that says you guys are running a Kaufmanesque long con on the board
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Re: The Clash songwriting credits after London Calling
Never heard of it. All that shit flies in the face of basic fair play and justice.101Walterton wrote: ↑24 Jan 2020, 5:44pmHave you seen the film about Solomon Linda who wrote the original song for The Lion Sleeps Tonight. It tells the story of how his family tried to get a slice of tens of millions Disney make from the song.Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑24 Jan 2020, 5:39pmAnother great argument against how copyright and royalties work can be found in Dave Marsh's book Louie Louie. From its inspiration and evolution to the buying and selling of the copyright, the history of that song demonstrates that the system is all a bunch of legal fiction.
Very sad story.
"I used to bullseye womp rats in my T-16 back in Whittier, they're not much bigger than two meters.'" - Richard Nixon, Checkers Speech, abandoned early draft
Re: The Clash songwriting credits after London Calling
From my point of view, I don't see it as slaving. If writing music is that much of a pain, that person might be in the wrong business. A generic beat is called for just as often as generic lyrics which make up the bulk of pop music, and that drummer was there to rehearse and help realize the song in its completed form in any case. If people don't like the generic beat they can ask him to come up with something more interesting. If that causes a problem then that's what band meetings are for. Otherwise they can pay the drummer to do exactly what they want and stop pretending to be a band.Heston wrote: ↑24 Jan 2020, 5:58pmTo be fair, I've been playing devil's advocate a bit with some of my comments, I'm not sure where I stand on this to be honest. Should a drummer who lays down a generic beat get the same slice of the pie as someone who slaves over a lyric/tune for weeks on end? I suppose every song is different and has a different writing dynamic. But aren't musicians paid performance royalties separate to writing royalties? I know they are smaller but it's still a recognition of their work.Kory wrote: ↑24 Jan 2020, 5:17pmPeople can run their bands however they want, but the lyrics/melody thing is archaic and needs a re-examination. It causes friction, and doesn't make sense in the context of pop music (see my a cappella comment). I've never thought that songwriting was such a pain in the ass that I deserved more money for writing a melody than does the drummer for coming up with the perfect beat to go along with it, or the guitarist for coming up with the hook that makes the song. A band should be an equal partnership with everyone putting in what they able to in order to finish a song, if not start it. Otherwise you have a solo artist with a backing band and should be honest about it if that's the case, starting with paying salaries to the other musicians. A band is either a collective effort, or an employer/employee relationship.
Performance royalties are fine, but it's all a matter of how much you want to rub your bandmates the wrong way, I suppose. Somebody who wrote some lyrics and melody to a song with a crazy recognizable bassline and gets a little bit extra when the bassist doesn't is not going to cause a warm feeling.
"Suck our Earth dick, Martians!" —Doc
Re: The Clash songwriting credits after London Calling
A speech that brings excesses like this, only a squalid question of money!
https://www.rollingstone.com/music/musi ... rs-890139/
Everyone who plays a note thinks to compose, but it is not like that, I repeat think about what happens in jazz. Then everyone has their point of view ....
https://www.rollingstone.com/music/musi ... rs-890139/
Everyone who plays a note thinks to compose, but it is not like that, I repeat think about what happens in jazz. Then everyone has their point of view ....
Music is the only thing that matters
Re: The Clash songwriting credits after London Calling
The matter was resolved, the family did get something out of it.101Walterton wrote: ↑24 Jan 2020, 5:44pmHave you seen the film about Solomon Linda who wrote the original song for The Lion Sleeps Tonight. It tells the story of how his family tried to get a slice of tens of millions Disney make from the song.Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑24 Jan 2020, 5:39pmAnother great argument against how copyright and royalties work can be found in Dave Marsh's book Louie Louie. From its inspiration and evolution to the buying and selling of the copyright, the history of that song demonstrates that the system is all a bunch of legal fiction.
Very sad story.
A trial was scheduled to start on 21 February 2006, but just before the trial, a settlement was reached between Linda's estate, Disney and Abilene Music Company, the true defendant of the litigation, who had granted an indemnity to Disney when it licensed use of "The Lion Sleeps Tonight" in The Lion King. The primary outcomes of the settlement were:
• The estate was to receive payment for past uses of "The Lion Sleeps Tonight" and an entitlement to future royalties from its worldwide use.
• "The Lion Sleeps Tonight" was to be acknowledged as derived from "Mbube".
• Solomon Linda was to be acknowledged as a co-composer of "The Lion Sleeps Tonight" and to be designated as such in the future.
• A trust was to be formed to administer the estate’s copyright in "Mbube" and to receive on their behalf the payments due from the use of "The Lion Sleeps Tonight"
- 101Walterton
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Re: The Clash songwriting credits after London Calling
It was next to nothing. From memory they got something like $400,000? (lawyers took a whack of that) ( bearing in mind it has made tens of millions. And I think the royalties share was only South Africa. They did not get a slice of Disney’s pie.dave202 wrote: ↑25 Jan 2020, 2:44pmThe matter was resolved, the family did get something out of it.101Walterton wrote: ↑24 Jan 2020, 5:44pmHave you seen the film about Solomon Linda who wrote the original song for The Lion Sleeps Tonight. It tells the story of how his family tried to get a slice of tens of millions Disney make from the song.Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑24 Jan 2020, 5:39pmAnother great argument against how copyright and royalties work can be found in Dave Marsh's book Louie Louie. From its inspiration and evolution to the buying and selling of the copyright, the history of that song demonstrates that the system is all a bunch of legal fiction.
Very sad story.
A trial was scheduled to start on 21 February 2006, but just before the trial, a settlement was reached between Linda's estate, Disney and Abilene Music Company, the true defendant of the litigation, who had granted an indemnity to Disney when it licensed use of "The Lion Sleeps Tonight" in The Lion King. The primary outcomes of the settlement were:
• The estate was to receive payment for past uses of "The Lion Sleeps Tonight" and an entitlement to future royalties from its worldwide use.
• "The Lion Sleeps Tonight" was to be acknowledged as derived from "Mbube".
• Solomon Linda was to be acknowledged as a co-composer of "The Lion Sleeps Tonight" and to be designated as such in the future.
• A trust was to be formed to administer the estate’s copyright in "Mbube" and to receive on their behalf the payments due from the use of "The Lion Sleeps Tonight"
Re: The Clash songwriting credits after London Calling
It's hard to tell, since the settlement was out of court. This is from The Financial Times in 2018, "Lawyers got involved. We don’t know who’d have won, because Disney made a settlement in 2006. Nor do we know the terms, but we do know it involved back and future payments and that it was life-changing for the family. Sixty-seven years after Linda composed his masterpiece, his name was attached to it and it seemed good things do happen, sometimes and eventually."101Walterton wrote: ↑25 Jan 2020, 3:24pmIt was next to nothing. From memory they got something like $400,000? (lawyers took a whack of that) ( bearing in mind it has made tens of millions. And I think the royalties share was only South Africa. They did not get a slice of Disney’s pie.dave202 wrote: ↑25 Jan 2020, 2:44pmThe matter was resolved, the family did get something out of it.101Walterton wrote: ↑24 Jan 2020, 5:44pmHave you seen the film about Solomon Linda who wrote the original song for The Lion Sleeps Tonight. It tells the story of how his family tried to get a slice of tens of millions Disney make from the song.Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑24 Jan 2020, 5:39pmAnother great argument against how copyright and royalties work can be found in Dave Marsh's book Louie Louie. From its inspiration and evolution to the buying and selling of the copyright, the history of that song demonstrates that the system is all a bunch of legal fiction.
Very sad story.
A trial was scheduled to start on 21 February 2006, but just before the trial, a settlement was reached between Linda's estate, Disney and Abilene Music Company, the true defendant of the litigation, who had granted an indemnity to Disney when it licensed use of "The Lion Sleeps Tonight" in The Lion King. The primary outcomes of the settlement were:
• The estate was to receive payment for past uses of "The Lion Sleeps Tonight" and an entitlement to future royalties from its worldwide use.
• "The Lion Sleeps Tonight" was to be acknowledged as derived from "Mbube".
• Solomon Linda was to be acknowledged as a co-composer of "The Lion Sleeps Tonight" and to be designated as such in the future.
• A trust was to be formed to administer the estate’s copyright in "Mbube" and to receive on their behalf the payments due from the use of "The Lion Sleeps Tonight"
- 101Walterton
- The Best
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Re: The Clash songwriting credits after London Calling
At the end of the film they said exactly what the family got I can’t remember exactly as I said above. The family only tried to get the royalties for South Africa they knew they had no chance getting the American pie so they went after Disney’s SA handlers.dave202 wrote: ↑25 Jan 2020, 7:12pmIt's hard to tell, since the settlement was out of court. This is from The Financial Times in 2018, "Lawyers got involved. We don’t know who’d have won, because Disney made a settlement in 2006. Nor do we know the terms, but we do know it involved back and future payments and that it was life-changing for the family. Sixty-seven years after Linda composed his masterpiece, his name was attached to it and it seemed good things do happen, sometimes and eventually."101Walterton wrote: ↑25 Jan 2020, 3:24pmIt was next to nothing. From memory they got something like $400,000? (lawyers took a whack of that) ( bearing in mind it has made tens of millions. And I think the royalties share was only South Africa. They did not get a slice of Disney’s pie.dave202 wrote: ↑25 Jan 2020, 2:44pmThe matter was resolved, the family did get something out of it.101Walterton wrote: ↑24 Jan 2020, 5:44pmHave you seen the film about Solomon Linda who wrote the original song for The Lion Sleeps Tonight. It tells the story of how his family tried to get a slice of tens of millions Disney make from the song.Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑24 Jan 2020, 5:39pmAnother great argument against how copyright and royalties work can be found in Dave Marsh's book Louie Louie. From its inspiration and evolution to the buying and selling of the copyright, the history of that song demonstrates that the system is all a bunch of legal fiction.
Very sad story.
A trial was scheduled to start on 21 February 2006, but just before the trial, a settlement was reached between Linda's estate, Disney and Abilene Music Company, the true defendant of the litigation, who had granted an indemnity to Disney when it licensed use of "The Lion Sleeps Tonight" in The Lion King. The primary outcomes of the settlement were:
• The estate was to receive payment for past uses of "The Lion Sleeps Tonight" and an entitlement to future royalties from its worldwide use.
• "The Lion Sleeps Tonight" was to be acknowledged as derived from "Mbube".
• Solomon Linda was to be acknowledged as a co-composer of "The Lion Sleeps Tonight" and to be designated as such in the future.
• A trust was to be formed to administer the estate’s copyright in "Mbube" and to receive on their behalf the payments due from the use of "The Lion Sleeps Tonight"
Life changing when you live in a SA township doesn’t mean much.
- 101Walterton
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Re: The Clash songwriting credits after London Calling
This is the film.
Re: The Clash songwriting credits after London Calling
Thanks, I'll watch it.
Re: The Clash songwriting credits after London Calling
I read somewhere that Allen Ginsberg wrote his part on "Ghetto Defendant"
Music is the only thing that matters
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Silent Majority
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- 101Walterton
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-
Silent Majority
- Singer-Songwriter Nancy
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Re: The Clash songwriting credits after London Calling
Well, he's in Hell, so no.
- 101Walterton
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Re: The Clash songwriting credits after London Calling
Realise that but presume his estate does though.Silent Majority wrote: ↑02 Feb 2020, 5:22pmWell, he's in Hell, so no.