My semi-annual plea for Rat Patrol, part 27

Clash clash clash. ¡VIVAN LOS NORTEAMERICANOS DEL IMCT Y LAS BRIGADAS DEL CADILLAC NUEVO!
101Walterton
User avatar
The Best
Posts: 21485
Joined: 15 Jun 2008, 5:36pm
Location: Volcanic Rock In The Pacific

Re: My semi-annual plea for Rat Patrol, part 27

Post by 101Walterton »

Heston wrote:
25 Jun 2020, 8:19pm
101Walterton wrote:
25 Jun 2020, 7:55pm
Heston wrote:
25 Jun 2020, 6:42pm
matedog wrote:
25 Jun 2020, 6:35pm
To repeat my earlier question, what is not available (in regular trading circles) in great quality? Other than Inoculated City.
As far as I can tell, the only tracks in near to full fidelity are these...

SISOSIG
Straight To Hell
Kill Time
The Beautiful People
Ghetto Defendant
Sean Flynn
Walk Evil Talk
First Night Back In London
Cool Confusion
Does Walk Evil Talk count?
Not sure. Was the tracklisting ever set in stone?
Surely it is nothing more than just a jam not an intended track (at least not in that form).

Silent Majority
User avatar
Singer-Songwriter Nancy
Posts: 15795
Joined: 10 Nov 2008, 8:28pm
Location: A republic of mind

Re: My semi-annual plea for Rat Patrol, part 27

Post by Silent Majority »

I guess deciding on a track listing would be the very last thing to do.
Authority is supposedly grounded in wisdom, but I could see from a very early age that authority was only a system of control and it didn't have any inherent wisdom. I quickly realised that you either became a power or you were crushed


www.pexlives.libsyn.com/

matedog
User avatar
Purveyor of Hoyistic Thought
Posts: 21889
Joined: 15 Jun 2008, 4:07pm
Location: 1995

Re: My semi-annual plea for Rat Patrol, part 27

Post by matedog »

Heston wrote:
25 Jun 2020, 8:19pm
101Walterton wrote:
25 Jun 2020, 7:55pm
Heston wrote:
25 Jun 2020, 6:42pm
matedog wrote:
25 Jun 2020, 6:35pm
To repeat my earlier question, what is not available (in regular trading circles) in great quality? Other than Inoculated City.
As far as I can tell, the only tracks in near to full fidelity are these...

SISOSIG
Straight To Hell
Kill Time
The Beautiful People
Ghetto Defendant
Sean Flynn
Walk Evil Talk
First Night Back In London
Cool Confusion
Does Walk Evil Talk count?
Not sure. Was the tracklisting ever set in stone?
TeddyB provided input awhile back: viewtopic.php?p=479251#p479251
TeddyB Not Logged In wrote:
17 Nov 2017, 6:36pm
Full disclosure: I do now have a copy of Rat Patrol from a cassette that was run off at Electric Lady in January of ‘82, before they left on tour of the Far East, but it’s not my work to make available, and I actually don’t believe Mick feels it’s his decision to let loose it into the wild (not that I’ve ever asked him). Sorry.

As we know, after shade was thrown at Mick’s mix, they continued to work in studios in Japan and Australia. This was the way things sat before they left New York:

Straight to Hell 6:50 (with fade-in)
Know Your Rights 5:02 (with alternate vocals)
Rock the Casbah 3.49 (with congas intro)
Red Angel Dragnet 5:09
Should I Stay or Should I Go? 3:07 (with original vocals, including the Spanish backgrounds)
Ghetto Defendant 6:13
Atom Tan 2:42
Sean Flynn 7:23
Car Jamming 3:51
Overpowered by Funk 6:03
The Fulham Connection II 3:47
First Night Back in London 2:59
Inoculated City 4:26
Cool Confusion 3:12
Idle in Kangaroo Court W1 5:04
Death is a Star 3:13

Meanwhile, the following have been released officially as is on this tape: Sean Flynn (7:23), Idle in Kangaroo Court, Fulham Connection 2, Cool Confusion (3:12 version), First Night Back in London.

The following have been released officially in identical or virtually identical versions: Straight to Hell (6:50 with fade-in), Rock the Casbah (single version, minus the congas intro).


All of the remaining songs were edited and remixed by Glyn Johns for Combat Rock, including the album version of Rock the Casbah. I don’t know when the two new lead vocals were recorded. C.K. has suggested elsewhere that Joe recorded extra rhythm guitar on some tracks, but I don’t know if that’s true, or if some were merely lifted in the final mixes.

I know the track list for Rat Patrol from Electric Lady does not include Overpowered by Funk, but it is on this tape. Perhaps Mick didn’t intend to include it on the album.
Look, you have to establish context for these things. And I maintain that unless you appreciate the Fall of Constantinople, the Great Fire of London, and Mickey Mantle's fatalist alcoholism, live Freddy makes no sense. If you want to half-ass it, fine, go call Simon Schama to do the appendix.

Heston
User avatar
God of Thunder...and Rock 'n Roll
Posts: 33350
Joined: 15 Jun 2008, 4:07pm
Location: North of Watford Junction

Re: My semi-annual plea for Rat Patrol, part 27

Post by Heston »

matedog wrote:
26 Jun 2020, 9:21am
Heston wrote:
25 Jun 2020, 8:19pm
101Walterton wrote:
25 Jun 2020, 7:55pm
Heston wrote:
25 Jun 2020, 6:42pm
matedog wrote:
25 Jun 2020, 6:35pm
To repeat my earlier question, what is not available (in regular trading circles) in great quality? Other than Inoculated City.
As far as I can tell, the only tracks in near to full fidelity are these...

SISOSIG
Straight To Hell
Kill Time
The Beautiful People
Ghetto Defendant
Sean Flynn
Walk Evil Talk
First Night Back In London
Cool Confusion
Does Walk Evil Talk count?
Not sure. Was the tracklisting ever set in stone?
TeddyB provided input awhile back: viewtopic.php?p=479251#p479251
TeddyB Not Logged In wrote:
17 Nov 2017, 6:36pm
Full disclosure: I do now have a copy of Rat Patrol from a cassette that was run off at Electric Lady in January of ‘82, before they left on tour of the Far East, but it’s not my work to make available, and I actually don’t believe Mick feels it’s his decision to let loose it into the wild (not that I’ve ever asked him). Sorry.

As we know, after shade was thrown at Mick’s mix, they continued to work in studios in Japan and Australia. This was the way things sat before they left New York:

Straight to Hell 6:50 (with fade-in)
Know Your Rights 5:02 (with alternate vocals)
Rock the Casbah 3.49 (with congas intro)
Red Angel Dragnet 5:09
Should I Stay or Should I Go? 3:07 (with original vocals, including the Spanish backgrounds)
Ghetto Defendant 6:13
Atom Tan 2:42
Sean Flynn 7:23
Car Jamming 3:51
Overpowered by Funk 6:03
The Fulham Connection II 3:47
First Night Back in London 2:59
Inoculated City 4:26
Cool Confusion 3:12
Idle in Kangaroo Court W1 5:04
Death is a Star 3:13

Meanwhile, the following have been released officially as is on this tape: Sean Flynn (7:23), Idle in Kangaroo Court, Fulham Connection 2, Cool Confusion (3:12 version), First Night Back in London.

The following have been released officially in identical or virtually identical versions: Straight to Hell (6:50 with fade-in), Rock the Casbah (single version, minus the congas intro).


All of the remaining songs were edited and remixed by Glyn Johns for Combat Rock, including the album version of Rock the Casbah. I don’t know when the two new lead vocals were recorded. C.K. has suggested elsewhere that Joe recorded extra rhythm guitar on some tracks, but I don’t know if that’s true, or if some were merely lifted in the final mixes.

I know the track list for Rat Patrol from Electric Lady does not include Overpowered by Funk, but it is on this tape. Perhaps Mick didn’t intend to include it on the album.
Good stuff though the Rat Patrol mix of Casbah is defintely different to both the Combat Rock and single versions.
There's a tiny, tiny hopeful part of me that says you guys are running a Kaufmanesque long con on the board

matedog
User avatar
Purveyor of Hoyistic Thought
Posts: 21889
Joined: 15 Jun 2008, 4:07pm
Location: 1995

Re: My semi-annual plea for Rat Patrol, part 27

Post by matedog »

From Teddy's list, the following have been officially or basically officially been released:
Straight to Hell 6:50 (with fade-in)
Sean Flynn 7:23
Rock the Casbah 3.49 (with congas intro)
The Fulham Connection II 3:47
First Night Back in London 2:59
Cool Confusion 3:12
Idle in Kangaroo Court W1 5:04

Per cursory Youtube search we have the following in very good bootleg quality:
Should I Stay or Should I Go? 3:07 (with original vocals, including the Spanish backgrounds)
Ghetto Defendant 6:13
Death is a Star 3:13 ? (The track length doesn't match this version (www.youtube.com/watch?v=nGMxI6iIxtw&lis ... I&index=11)

Decent Quality:
Know Your Rights 5:02 (with alternate vocals)
Atom Tan 2:42
Car Jamming 3:51
Red Angel Dragnet 5:09
Inoculated City 4:26

Not in circulation
Overpowered by Funk 6:03

So basically we are looking for Overpowered which may or may not have been officially released as well as an upgrade to the five or so decent quality songs listed above?
Look, you have to establish context for these things. And I maintain that unless you appreciate the Fall of Constantinople, the Great Fire of London, and Mickey Mantle's fatalist alcoholism, live Freddy makes no sense. If you want to half-ass it, fine, go call Simon Schama to do the appendix.

Heston
User avatar
God of Thunder...and Rock 'n Roll
Posts: 33350
Joined: 15 Jun 2008, 4:07pm
Location: North of Watford Junction

Re: My semi-annual plea for Rat Patrol, part 27

Post by Heston »

matedog wrote:
26 Jun 2020, 9:35am
From Teddy's list, the following have been officially or basically officially been released:
Straight to Hell 6:50 (with fade-in)
Sean Flynn 7:23
Rock the Casbah 3.49 (with congas intro)
The Fulham Connection II 3:47
First Night Back in London 2:59
Cool Confusion 3:12
Idle in Kangaroo Court W1 5:04

Per cursory Youtube search we have the following in very good bootleg quality:
Should I Stay or Should I Go? 3:07 (with original vocals, including the Spanish backgrounds)
Ghetto Defendant 6:13
Death is a Star 3:13 ? (The track length doesn't match this version (www.youtube.com/watch?v=nGMxI6iIxtw&lis ... I&index=11)

Decent Quality:
Know Your Rights 5:02 (with alternate vocals)
Atom Tan 2:42
Car Jamming 3:51
Red Angel Dragnet 5:09
Inoculated City 4:26

Not in circulation
Overpowered by Funk 6:03

So basically we are looking for Overpowered which may or may not have been officially released as well as an upgrade to the five or so decent quality songs listed above?
Don't forget Ghetto Defendant was released on Sound System. And I maintain Casbah is a unique mix on Rat Patrol, the backing harmonies and sound effects are much louder.
There's a tiny, tiny hopeful part of me that says you guys are running a Kaufmanesque long con on the board

Kory
User avatar
Unknown Immortal
Posts: 12210
Joined: 17 Jun 2008, 1:42pm
Location: In the Discosphere

Re: My semi-annual plea for Rat Patrol, part 27

Post by Kory »

matedog wrote:
26 Jun 2020, 9:35am
From Teddy's list, the following have been officially or basically officially been released:
Straight to Hell 6:50 (with fade-in)
Sean Flynn 7:23
Rock the Casbah 3.49 (with congas intro)
The Fulham Connection II 3:47
First Night Back in London 2:59
Cool Confusion 3:12
Idle in Kangaroo Court W1 5:04

Per cursory Youtube search we have the following in very good bootleg quality:
Should I Stay or Should I Go? 3:07 (with original vocals, including the Spanish backgrounds)
Ghetto Defendant 6:13
Death is a Star 3:13 ? (The track length doesn't match this version (www.youtube.com/watch?v=nGMxI6iIxtw&lis ... I&index=11)

Decent Quality:
Know Your Rights 5:02 (with alternate vocals)
Atom Tan 2:42
Car Jamming 3:51
Red Angel Dragnet 5:09
Inoculated City 4:26

Not in circulation
Overpowered by Funk 6:03

So basically we are looking for Overpowered which may or may not have been officially released as well as an upgrade to the five or so decent quality songs listed above?
I would maybe disagree with the ones you have as "decent quality"—they're pretty muffled on my copy, I don't know if I just have a bad transfer or if my standards are too high.

Hes, is the Ghetto Defendent on Sound System Mick's mix, or just an unedited Glyn Johns version?
WWK: I feel confident we haven't heard the last from Dr. Harvey Camel.

matedog
User avatar
Purveyor of Hoyistic Thought
Posts: 21889
Joined: 15 Jun 2008, 4:07pm
Location: 1995

Re: My semi-annual plea for Rat Patrol, part 27

Post by matedog »

Kory wrote:
26 Jun 2020, 2:42pm
matedog wrote:
26 Jun 2020, 9:35am
From Teddy's list, the following have been officially or basically officially been released:
Straight to Hell 6:50 (with fade-in)
Sean Flynn 7:23
Rock the Casbah 3.49 (with congas intro)
The Fulham Connection II 3:47
First Night Back in London 2:59
Cool Confusion 3:12
Idle in Kangaroo Court W1 5:04

Per cursory Youtube search we have the following in very good bootleg quality:
Should I Stay or Should I Go? 3:07 (with original vocals, including the Spanish backgrounds)
Ghetto Defendant 6:13
Death is a Star 3:13 ? (The track length doesn't match this version (www.youtube.com/watch?v=nGMxI6iIxtw&lis ... I&index=11)

Decent Quality:
Know Your Rights 5:02 (with alternate vocals)
Atom Tan 2:42
Car Jamming 3:51
Red Angel Dragnet 5:09
Inoculated City 4:26

Not in circulation
Overpowered by Funk 6:03

So basically we are looking for Overpowered which may or may not have been officially released as well as an upgrade to the five or so decent quality songs listed above?
I would maybe disagree with the ones you have as "decent quality"—they're pretty muffled on my copy, I don't know if I just have a bad transfer or if my standards are too high.

Hes, is the Ghetto Defendent on Sound System Mick's mix, or just an unedited Glyn Johns version?
The link I posted above has what I referred to as decent quality versions of the ones listed.

I may also be comparing studio boots vs. live boots where I'd kill for anything that is of "decent" quality relative to the studio cuts.
Look, you have to establish context for these things. And I maintain that unless you appreciate the Fall of Constantinople, the Great Fire of London, and Mickey Mantle's fatalist alcoholism, live Freddy makes no sense. If you want to half-ass it, fine, go call Simon Schama to do the appendix.

matedog
User avatar
Purveyor of Hoyistic Thought
Posts: 21889
Joined: 15 Jun 2008, 4:07pm
Location: 1995

Re: My semi-annual plea for Rat Patrol, part 27

Post by matedog »

Heston wrote:
26 Jun 2020, 10:26am
Don't forget Ghetto Defendant was released on Sound System. And I maintain Casbah is a unique mix on Rat Patrol, the backing harmonies and sound effects are much louder.
Yeah Teddy didn't include it in his summary, but the track length matches to the second so it is probably an oversight on his end.
Look, you have to establish context for these things. And I maintain that unless you appreciate the Fall of Constantinople, the Great Fire of London, and Mickey Mantle's fatalist alcoholism, live Freddy makes no sense. If you want to half-ass it, fine, go call Simon Schama to do the appendix.

Heston
User avatar
God of Thunder...and Rock 'n Roll
Posts: 33350
Joined: 15 Jun 2008, 4:07pm
Location: North of Watford Junction

Re: My semi-annual plea for Rat Patrol, part 27

Post by Heston »

Kory wrote:
26 Jun 2020, 2:42pm
matedog wrote:
26 Jun 2020, 9:35am
From Teddy's list, the following have been officially or basically officially been released:
Straight to Hell 6:50 (with fade-in)
Sean Flynn 7:23
Rock the Casbah 3.49 (with congas intro)
The Fulham Connection II 3:47
First Night Back in London 2:59
Cool Confusion 3:12
Idle in Kangaroo Court W1 5:04

Per cursory Youtube search we have the following in very good bootleg quality:
Should I Stay or Should I Go? 3:07 (with original vocals, including the Spanish backgrounds)
Ghetto Defendant 6:13
Death is a Star 3:13 ? (The track length doesn't match this version (www.youtube.com/watch?v=nGMxI6iIxtw&lis ... I&index=11)

Decent Quality:
Know Your Rights 5:02 (with alternate vocals)
Atom Tan 2:42
Car Jamming 3:51
Red Angel Dragnet 5:09
Inoculated City 4:26

Not in circulation
Overpowered by Funk 6:03

So basically we are looking for Overpowered which may or may not have been officially released as well as an upgrade to the five or so decent quality songs listed above?
I would maybe disagree with the ones you have as "decent quality"—they're pretty muffled on my copy, I don't know if I just have a bad transfer or if my standards are too high.

Hes, is the Ghetto Defendent on Sound System Mick's mix, or just an unedited Glyn Johns version?
Mick's mix. Glyn Johns wisely got Joe to re-do the vocal.
There's a tiny, tiny hopeful part of me that says you guys are running a Kaufmanesque long con on the board

Silent Majority
User avatar
Singer-Songwriter Nancy
Posts: 15795
Joined: 10 Nov 2008, 8:28pm
Location: A republic of mind

Re: My semi-annual plea for Rat Patrol, part 27

Post by Silent Majority »

I remember gradually collecting the original Clash albums from CD stores as a teen without the Internet or any reference books and I was worried about Combat Rock being not a proper studio albums because large on the back cover it was written 'remixed by Glyn Johns' and I thought it might have been a dance music rejigger done for the early 21st century. I bought it anyway, too shy as a kid to ask the people behind the counter.
Authority is supposedly grounded in wisdom, but I could see from a very early age that authority was only a system of control and it didn't have any inherent wisdom. I quickly realised that you either became a power or you were crushed


www.pexlives.libsyn.com/

Marky Dread
User avatar
Messiah of the Milk Bar
Posts: 46148
Joined: 17 Jun 2008, 11:26am

Re: My semi-annual plea for Rat Patrol, part 27

Post by Marky Dread »

Kory wrote:
25 Jun 2020, 4:04pm
chocolatejesus wrote:
25 Jun 2020, 12:24pm
Did Joe reject the Mix because he didnt like it or was it bernies Input?
LIkely both.

In any case, the OP could have been written by me. I'm all for this, but I know Mick feels icky about releasing it without Joe's approval.
This really doesn't make a great deal of sense as Sound System saw the release of a couple of tracks from Mick's tape and Joe couldn't of given approval now could he.

Some of the stuff on the tape doesn't clean up that well. Like the unnecessary bongo intro to RtC also Car Jamming has a glitch in it. Inoculated City does sound great though and I wished it had been included on the SS box.

I pretty much prefer all of Mick's original mixes.
Image

gkbill
Graffiti Bandit Pioneer
Posts: 1958
Joined: 23 Jun 2008, 9:21pm

Re: My semi-annual plea for Rat Patrol, part 27

Post by gkbill »

Hello,

Is there a definitive Rat Patrol collection out there? It seems I have half-a-dozen folders of Rat Patrol stuff.

Marky Dread
User avatar
Messiah of the Milk Bar
Posts: 46148
Joined: 17 Jun 2008, 11:26am

Re: My semi-annual plea for Rat Patrol, part 27

Post by Marky Dread »

gkbill wrote:
27 Jun 2020, 12:06pm
Hello,

Is there a definitive Rat Patrol collection out there? It seems I have half-a-dozen folders of Rat Patrol stuff.
I did a remaster of the best sounding bootlegs a couple of years ago. But the "tape" has not been shared.
Image

southsideryan
Corner Soul
Posts: 30
Joined: 21 Aug 2019, 11:15pm
Location: across Illinois

Re: My semi-annual plea for Rat Patrol, part 27

Post by southsideryan »

Marky Dread wrote:
27 Jun 2020, 12:26pm
gkbill wrote:
27 Jun 2020, 12:06pm
Hello,

Is there a definitive Rat Patrol collection out there? It seems I have half-a-dozen folders of Rat Patrol stuff.
I did a remaster of the best sounding bootlegs a couple of years ago. But the "tape" has not been shared.
Such a shame. Now is as good a time as any

Post Reply