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Re: The De-Berniator

Posted: 10 Mar 2021, 5:20pm
by Marky Dread
Heston wrote:
10 Mar 2021, 3:56pm
CorwoodRep wrote:
09 Mar 2021, 10:09pm
Not that anyone asked, but damn it I continue to have outlet-less thoughts on this:

I re-listened to Cut the Crap and this during my walk this morning and just thought about the dynamics that led to that album getting made, and what the hell anybody thought they were doing, and whether it ever could have been good. Like, if it sounded like the reboot, where would it have landed in the market? What would it have done to The Clash's legacy? What reviews would it get?

And the more I thought about it, the more I realized it never could have worked out because Joe Strummer was never going to be in the headspace to make that happen. The well was just too poisoned. Even with the most charitable arrangement possible, half of these songs have hall of fame terrible lyrics and the majority of the vocals lack the power Joe had on stage. He sounds a bit defeated. But even if that weren't true, the songs are all too similar. It needed more dynamics, some organ, more diverse instrumentation, something.

And the football chants. Man, those football chants. Those all gotta go, and yesterday. There's something so false about them. So ugly. On the way to sounding fash.

I just can't see a world where even the retooled version gets good reviews. I think the playing would have been praised (this is a tight band) but people would correctly observe that only about four of its songs are major and many are godawful, that the vibe of the songs is really dark, and that the product as a whole doesn't have narrative cohesion. What's Life is Wild? What kind of statement is that? There's no story to this. And the album totally lacks a way in. Is The Dictator a good song? I suppose it goes hard, it's got a lot of muscle, but there's something depressing about it, unmotivated. Why are we starting here?

Just for kicks I tried to come up with a tracklisting for the dream version of this. This is just songs I knew Joe had lying around in 1984. Unsure about sequencing but here's what I got:

01. Are You Ready For War?
02. The Dictator
03. Jericho
04. Galleani
05. Out of Control
06. North and South
07. Three Card Trick
08. In The Pouring Rain
09. Sex Mad War
10. Rock ‘n Roll City
11. Before We Go Forward
12. Blues On The River
13. This Is England

Still don't know how it would have landed even if those were recorded perfect. I think it'd get respectable reviews, but it's missing something. Maybe that's Mick Jones.
Gotta disagree about Joe's vocals, I think he is great across the whole album.
Ah I maybe didn't read this the same way. I took it that the lyrics sounded deflated not the sound of the voice which is solid.

Re: The De-Berniator

Posted: 16 Mar 2021, 2:06pm
by JohnSimonBeverly
geraldmanns wrote:
12 Feb 2021, 12:02pm
Well, like everyone I was extremely disappointed when CTC was released in 1985. I knew the new songs from different bootlegs, like Bring The House Down, Five Alive etc. All the years after I was hoping for the existence of some mastertapes that were smuggled out of the studio in munich by a mindful technician. But literature that was released decades later showed that Paul and Pete didn't take part in the recordings.
Last year I found two different audio editing softwares with different algorithms to separate vocals from an existing audio recording. The De-Berniator idea was born. So after ripping Joe's vocals from the tracks, cleaning them up (a lot of noisy bits, especially in The Dictator, had to be removed).
Next step was to get a good live performance of every song, copying Pete's drums beat by beat into a drum machine that sampled original drum sounds.
On songs The Clash didn't perform live I had to lay down the tracks in a Pete Howard stylee by myself. After that came listening, learning, rehearsing and recording guitars and basslines.
To get a better sound I had to buy a Les Paul to differ from my Telecaster sound (nice axe to have anyway). I had to add some backing vocals because the algorithms swallowed some of the football chants (didn't make them out as vocals). It took me a while to mix it all, but now it was time to kick it out of my house.
Especially in different Facebook groups are a lot of hate regarding the last line-up of The Clash. I think these were quite descent songs and a lot of fun to listen to now. For me, this is the CTC I expected and hoped for when it was released in 1985.
Feel free to spread these recordings wherever you like, maybe it will shine a better light on the last line-up.
Have fun!
GMAN
Absolutely fantastic work! I think many of us share your feelings about Clash II and CTC. Thank you so much for sharing this!

Re: The De-Berniator

Posted: 04 May 2021, 11:38am
by coffeepotman
It's been a while now and I've gotten over the initial freak out about this and have let it sit for a while. As I'm listening to it this morning I am still just amazed at how good this is and the amount of work that went into it.

This takes me back to my initial disappointment/disgust of when this album first came out, I've hated it ever since rarely listening to it and now I really like it a lot. This needs to be celebrated.

If you haven't listened to it since Gerald dropped it on us give it another spin, it really is great!

Re: The De-Berniator

Posted: 05 May 2021, 2:27pm
by IkarisOne
coffeepotman wrote:
04 May 2021, 11:38am
It's been a while now and I've gotten over the initial freak out about this and have let it sit for a while. As I'm listening to it this morning I am still just amazed at how good this is and the amount of work that went into it.

This takes me back to my initial disappointment/disgust of when this album first came out, I've hated it ever since rarely listening to it and now I really like it a lot. This needs to be celebrated.

If you haven't listened to it since Gerald dropped it on us give it another spin, it really is great!
It's a miracle, it really is. You actually CAN polish a turd after all. Can't thank Gerald enough.

Re: The De-Berniator

Posted: 05 May 2021, 2:29pm
by Marky Dread
IkarisOne wrote:
05 May 2021, 2:27pm
coffeepotman wrote:
04 May 2021, 11:38am
It's been a while now and I've gotten over the initial freak out about this and have let it sit for a while. As I'm listening to it this morning I am still just amazed at how good this is and the amount of work that went into it.

This takes me back to my initial disappointment/disgust of when this album first came out, I've hated it ever since rarely listening to it and now I really like it a lot. This needs to be celebrated.

If you haven't listened to it since Gerald dropped it on us give it another spin, it really is great!
It's a miracle, it really is. You actually CAN polish a turd after all. Can't thank Gerald enough.
Gerald didn't polish a turd. He flushed it away. ;)

Re: The De-Berniator

Posted: 07 Jun 2021, 9:48pm
by appleseed1
IkarisOne wrote:
05 May 2021, 2:27pm
coffeepotman wrote:
04 May 2021, 11:38am
It's been a while now and I've gotten over the initial freak out about this and have let it sit for a while. As I'm listening to it this morning I am still just amazed at how good this is and the amount of work that went into it.

This takes me back to my initial disappointment/disgust of when this album first came out, I've hated it ever since rarely listening to it and now I really like it a lot. This needs to be celebrated.

If you haven't listened to it since Gerald dropped it on us give it another spin, it really is great!
It's a miracle, it really is. You actually CAN polish a turd after all. Can't thank Gerald enough.
I'm still playing it from beginning to end regularly! Love it! Thanks again, Gerald.

Re: The De-Berniator

Posted: 10 Jun 2021, 10:59am
by geraldmanns
appleseed1 wrote:
07 Jun 2021, 9:48pm
IkarisOne wrote:
05 May 2021, 2:27pm
coffeepotman wrote:
04 May 2021, 11:38am
It's been a while now and I've gotten over the initial freak out about this and have let it sit for a while. As I'm listening to it this morning I am still just amazed at how good this is and the amount of work that went into it.

This takes me back to my initial disappointment/disgust of when this album first came out, I've hated it ever since rarely listening to it and now I really like it a lot. This needs to be celebrated.

If you haven't listened to it since Gerald dropped it on us give it another spin, it really is great!
It's a miracle, it really is. You actually CAN polish a turd after all. Can't thank Gerald enough.
I'm still playing it from beginning to end regularly! Love it! Thanks again, Gerald.
You‘re welcome! Wait til you hear the remasters for the vinyl edition! I’ve added some details, you’ll love it! I will post them here when I finished the bonus tracks (Jericho, Pouring Rain, Glue Zombie and maybe Out of Control and Sex Mad War)

Re: The De-Berniator

Posted: 10 Jun 2021, 3:30pm
by CorwoodRep
Really excited to hear those bonus tracks.