What did the Clash think of Joy Division/the Post Punk Scene

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What did the Clash think of Joy Division/the Post Punk Scene

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Can’t seem to recall ever reading any mention of this. Anyone know what sort of opinion they held? I would think they self pitying nature of the music would run counter to what they believed at the time.

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Re: What did the Clash think of Joy Division/the Post Punk Scene

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RockNRollWhore wrote:
01 Apr 2021, 4:13am
Can’t seem to recall ever reading any mention of this. Anyone know what sort of opinion they held? I would think they self pitying nature of the music would run counter to what they believed at the time.
I'm curious about this too. I have to imagine that Mick was at least partially influenced by it; you can hear some of that on Combat Rock. The only direct quote I can think of on the topic is Joe saying he thought PiL sounded like Uriah Heep on Mandrax. I'd have to imagine that they probably didn't care much for JD, but I could see them appreciating Gang of Four for a number of reasons. And of course they came up with Siouxsie and Severin, so they may have had some loyalty to the Banshees. They probably thought Magazine were too noodley. They liked the Slits, of course, and by extension, I could see them liking the Pop Group maybe.
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Re: What did the Clash think of Joy Division/the Post Punk Scene

Post by Wolter »

I don’t know if the division between post punk and punk was that clear then. At that point it was more “the direction punk bands are choosing to move in” in the eyes of many.
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Re: What did the Clash think of Joy Division/the Post Punk Scene

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Kory wrote:
02 Apr 2021, 8:40pm
RockNRollWhore wrote:
01 Apr 2021, 4:13am
Can’t seem to recall ever reading any mention of this. Anyone know what sort of opinion they held? I would think they self pitying nature of the music would run counter to what they believed at the time.
I'm curious about this too. I have to imagine that Mick was at least partially influenced by it; you can hear some of that on Combat Rock. The only direct quote I can think of on the topic is Joe saying he thought PiL sounded like Uriah Heep on Mandrax. I'd have to imagine that they probably didn't care much for JD, but I could see them appreciating Gang of Four for a number of reasons. And of course they came up with Siouxsie and Severin, so they may have had some loyalty to the Banshees. They probably thought Magazine were too noodley. They liked the Slits, of course, and by extension, I could see them liking the Pop Group maybe.
I always thought that Somebody Got Murdered/Up in Heaven (Not only here) was their take on the whole new wave post punk sort of sound. The call up too potentially albeit in a different sort of way. I honestly wish they made more songs in this style. Mick Jones is just so damn good in that Power Pop sort of mode. I suppose he did explore it with bad on songs like V Thirteen, Other 99 etc..
alas... what could have been

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Re: What did the Clash think of Joy Division/the Post Punk Scene

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Wolter wrote:
02 Apr 2021, 8:42pm
I don’t know if the division between post punk and punk was that clear then. At that point it was more “the direction punk bands are choosing to move in” in the eyes of many.
Joy Division and bauhaus were actually labeled “Positive Punk” by the the NME. Fucking Lmao at that. It was considered to be some sort of forward positive evolution for punk music, thus the name.

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Re: What did the Clash think of Joy Division/the Post Punk Scene

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I don't want to oversell the distinction, but the guiding precept of most post-punk bands of that period was getting past rock, to be embrace greater diversity in terms of pleasure and aesthetics. Most radically, it questioned the entire idea that popular music is some kind of body/mind liberation. The Clash were more in line with the idea of finding rock's essence as a liberatory means. Not for nothing does London Calling looking to the 1950s for a number of its cues. So it is, generally, an attitudinal difference in what music can and should be.
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Re: What did the Clash think of Joy Division/the Post Punk Scene

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Dr. Medulla wrote:
02 Apr 2021, 9:05pm
I don't want to oversell the distinction, but the guiding precept of most post-punk bands of that period was getting past rock, to be embrace greater diversity in terms of pleasure and aesthetics. Most radically, it questioned the entire idea that popular music is some kind of body/mind liberation. The Clash were more in line with the idea of finding rock's essence as a liberatory means. Not for nothing does London Calling looking to the 1950s for a number of its cues. So it is, generally, an attitudinal difference in what music can and should be.
That’s why I find chunks of CR so fascinating, even if the songs themselves aren’t world beaters. It was Mick straying from that essence, though we all know how that turned out. I’m frankly surprised Paul wasn’t more into it considering his interest in dub, but he was pretty passive as a bandmate.
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Re: What did the Clash think of Joy Division/the Post Punk Scene

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RockNRollWhore wrote:
02 Apr 2021, 8:59pm
Wolter wrote:
02 Apr 2021, 8:42pm
I don’t know if the division between post punk and punk was that clear then. At that point it was more “the direction punk bands are choosing to move in” in the eyes of many.
Joy Division and bauhaus were actually labeled “Positive Punk” by the the NME. Fucking Lmao at that. It was considered to be some sort of forward positive evolution for punk music, thus the name.
I definitely agree with that, using positive in the sense of “a good thing to do,” rather than being philosophically positive. Post-punk is what punk should have been after its second wave rather than becoming a straitjacket.
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Re: What did the Clash think of Joy Division/the Post Punk Scene

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Kory wrote:
02 Apr 2021, 9:09pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
02 Apr 2021, 9:05pm
I don't want to oversell the distinction, but the guiding precept of most post-punk bands of that period was getting past rock, to be embrace greater diversity in terms of pleasure and aesthetics. Most radically, it questioned the entire idea that popular music is some kind of body/mind liberation. The Clash were more in line with the idea of finding rock's essence as a liberatory means. Not for nothing does London Calling looking to the 1950s for a number of its cues. So it is, generally, an attitudinal difference in what music can and should be.
That’s why I find chunks of CR so fascinating, even if the songs themselves aren’t world beaters. It was Mick straying from that essence, though we all know how that turned out. I’m frankly surprised Paul wasn’t more into it considering his interest in dub, but he was pretty passive as a bandmate.
Yup. Mick was far away the most adventurous, one to look to the past to inform new ideas than just to validate the past. Joe was several steps behind Mick in that regard.
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Re: What did the Clash think of Joy Division/the Post Punk Scene

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Kory wrote:
02 Apr 2021, 9:09pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
02 Apr 2021, 9:05pm
I don't want to oversell the distinction, but the guiding precept of most post-punk bands of that period was getting past rock, to be embrace greater diversity in terms of pleasure and aesthetics. Most radically, it questioned the entire idea that popular music is some kind of body/mind liberation. The Clash were more in line with the idea of finding rock's essence as a liberatory means. Not for nothing does London Calling looking to the 1950s for a number of its cues. So it is, generally, an attitudinal difference in what music can and should be.
That’s why I find chunks of CR so fascinating, even if the songs themselves aren’t world beaters. It was Mick straying from that essence, though we all know how that turned out. I’m frankly surprised Paul wasn’t more into it considering his interest in dub, but he was pretty passive as a bandmate.
It does lack the cathartic sense of warmth that I find in the Clash’s early music. Not necessarily a stylistic thing. Even when they were in punk mode their music seems so much more graceful than their contemporaries. The anthemic bridge in Complete Control, the morse code guitar work on Tommy Gun, the chorus in the Prisoner...
I know I’m going to get a ton of hate for this but that’s why I love the Libertines. They got much more close to the musical essence of the Clash than any of the 90s punk revivalists like Rancid...


Listen to the morse code guitar. It’s so warm and comfy sounding. I know I probably sound pedantic as fuck right now but I think I’m onto something.

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Re: What did the Clash think of Joy Division/the Post Punk Scene

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Imagine Joe Strummer dressed as a new romantic slashing his wrists on stage. Carving cut the crap into his forearm like Richey Edwards

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Re: What did the Clash think of Joy Division/the Post Punk Scene

Post by Kory »

RockNRollWhore wrote:
02 Apr 2021, 9:21pm
Kory wrote:
02 Apr 2021, 9:09pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
02 Apr 2021, 9:05pm
I don't want to oversell the distinction, but the guiding precept of most post-punk bands of that period was getting past rock, to be embrace greater diversity in terms of pleasure and aesthetics. Most radically, it questioned the entire idea that popular music is some kind of body/mind liberation. The Clash were more in line with the idea of finding rock's essence as a liberatory means. Not for nothing does London Calling looking to the 1950s for a number of its cues. So it is, generally, an attitudinal difference in what music can and should be.
That’s why I find chunks of CR so fascinating, even if the songs themselves aren’t world beaters. It was Mick straying from that essence, though we all know how that turned out. I’m frankly surprised Paul wasn’t more into it considering his interest in dub, but he was pretty passive as a bandmate.
It does lack the cathartic sense of warmth that I find in the Clash’s early music. Not necessarily a stylistic thing. Even when they were in punk mode their music seems so much more graceful than their contemporaries. The anthemic bridge in Complete Control, the morse code guitar work on Tommy Gun, the chorus in the Prisoner...
I know I’m going to get a ton of hate for this but that’s why I love the Libertines. They got much more close to the musical essence of the Clash than any of the 90s punk revivalists like Rancid...

Listen to the morse code guitar. It’s so warm and comfy sounding. I know I probably sound pedantic as fuck right now but I think I’m onto something.
They’re not really my bag, but I don’t think you’ll get any hate for it, I’m pretty sure we have a few fans here.
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Re: What did the Clash think of Joy Division/the Post Punk Scene

Post by Wolter »

There are several Libs fans here. Inder is. I love the debut but don’t really pay attention after. The our late, much missed 101Walterton was a big fan if I recall.
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Re: What did the Clash think of Joy Division/the Post Punk Scene

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Kory wrote:
02 Apr 2021, 9:27pm
RockNRollWhore wrote:
02 Apr 2021, 9:21pm
Kory wrote:
02 Apr 2021, 9:09pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
02 Apr 2021, 9:05pm
I don't want to oversell the distinction, but the guiding precept of most post-punk bands of that period was getting past rock, to be embrace greater diversity in terms of pleasure and aesthetics. Most radically, it questioned the entire idea that popular music is some kind of body/mind liberation. The Clash were more in line with the idea of finding rock's essence as a liberatory means. Not for nothing does London Calling looking to the 1950s for a number of its cues. So it is, generally, an attitudinal difference in what music can and should be.
That’s why I find chunks of CR so fascinating, even if the songs themselves aren’t world beaters. It was Mick straying from that essence, though we all know how that turned out. I’m frankly surprised Paul wasn’t more into it considering his interest in dub, but he was pretty passive as a bandmate.
It does lack the cathartic sense of warmth that I find in the Clash’s early music. Not necessarily a stylistic thing. Even when they were in punk mode their music seems so much more graceful than their contemporaries. The anthemic bridge in Complete Control, the morse code guitar work on Tommy Gun, the chorus in the Prisoner...
I know I’m going to get a ton of hate for this but that’s why I love the Libertines. They got much more close to the musical essence of the Clash than any of the 90s punk revivalists like Rancid...

Listen to the morse code guitar. It’s so warm and comfy sounding. I know I probably sound pedantic as fuck right now but I think I’m onto something.
They’re not really my bag, but I don’t think you’ll get any hate for it, I’m pretty sure we have a few fans here.
I feel like tabloid drama kind of turned a lot of people off from them. Pete Doherty kind of was the last in your face asshole heroin addict turned guitar poet rockstar we had. Idk as I get older that stuff has less appeal to me, but the tunes still rock.

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Re: What did the Clash think of Joy Division/the Post Punk Scene

Post by RockNRollWhore »

Wolter wrote:
02 Apr 2021, 9:31pm
There are several Libs fans here. Inder is. I love the debut but don’t really pay attention after. The our late, much missed 101Walterton was a big fan if I recall.
I’m sorry to hear of his passing. RIP.

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