What did the Clash think of Joy Division/the Post Punk Scene

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Re: What did the Clash think of Joy Division/the Post Punk Scene

Post by Marky Dread »

The Clash

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Punk band
Post punk band
Post punk pop band
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JohnS
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Re: What did the Clash think of Joy Division/the Post Punk Scene

Post by JohnS »

I think the Clash just ploughed on doing whatever they wanted to do, without consciously trying to ape a 'scene' like the post punk stuff (which despite the variety of music and styles, was pretty much a music scene of its own) I can't imagine them 'doing a Joy Division / Wire / Gang of 4 / (etc)' track.
They got lumped in with punk at the start, soon moved on, and were always keen to point that out.
Mind you, they appreciated the post punk indie scene enough to write a song about it, and (for whatever reason) issue it as a single.
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Re: What did the Clash think of Joy Division/the Post Punk Scene

Post by Wolter »

RockNRollWhore wrote:
02 Apr 2021, 9:32pm
Kory wrote:
02 Apr 2021, 9:27pm
RockNRollWhore wrote:
02 Apr 2021, 9:21pm
Kory wrote:
02 Apr 2021, 9:09pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
02 Apr 2021, 9:05pm
I don't want to oversell the distinction, but the guiding precept of most post-punk bands of that period was getting past rock, to be embrace greater diversity in terms of pleasure and aesthetics. Most radically, it questioned the entire idea that popular music is some kind of body/mind liberation. The Clash were more in line with the idea of finding rock's essence as a liberatory means. Not for nothing does London Calling looking to the 1950s for a number of its cues. So it is, generally, an attitudinal difference in what music can and should be.
That’s why I find chunks of CR so fascinating, even if the songs themselves aren’t world beaters. It was Mick straying from that essence, though we all know how that turned out. I’m frankly surprised Paul wasn’t more into it considering his interest in dub, but he was pretty passive as a bandmate.
It does lack the cathartic sense of warmth that I find in the Clash’s early music. Not necessarily a stylistic thing. Even when they were in punk mode their music seems so much more graceful than their contemporaries. The anthemic bridge in Complete Control, the morse code guitar work on Tommy Gun, the chorus in the Prisoner...
I know I’m going to get a ton of hate for this but that’s why I love the Libertines. They got much more close to the musical essence of the Clash than any of the 90s punk revivalists like Rancid...

Listen to the morse code guitar. It’s so warm and comfy sounding. I know I probably sound pedantic as fuck right now but I think I’m onto something.
They’re not really my bag, but I don’t think you’ll get any hate for it, I’m pretty sure we have a few fans here.
I feel like tabloid drama kind of turned a lot of people off from them. Pete Doherty kind of was the last in your face asshole heroin addict turned guitar poet rockstar we had. Idk as I get older that stuff has less appeal to me, but the tunes still rock.
Honestly unless someone is a straight-up abuser, I tend to not worry about the asshole factor because *waves hand at most of rock history*
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Re: What did the Clash think of Joy Division/the Post Punk Scene

Post by Dr. Medulla »

Wolter wrote:
03 Apr 2021, 9:56am
Honestly unless someone is a straight-up abuser, I tend to not worry about the asshole factor because *waves hand at most of rock history*
Given rock n roll's origins and guiding myths, it's a weird thing to expect sainthood from the musicians.
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Re: What did the Clash think of Joy Division/the Post Punk Scene

Post by Wolter »

Dr. Medulla wrote:
03 Apr 2021, 12:14pm
Wolter wrote:
03 Apr 2021, 9:56am
Honestly unless someone is a straight-up abuser, I tend to not worry about the asshole factor because *waves hand at most of rock history*
Given rock n roll's origins and guiding myths, it's a weird thing to expect sainthood from the musicians.
Yeah. There are some people whose proven crimes or ideology are too heinous for me to support, but it’s always been a fertile ground for egomaniac assholes.
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Re: What did the Clash think of Joy Division/the Post Punk Scene

Post by RockNRollWhore »

Wolter wrote:
03 Apr 2021, 12:25pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
03 Apr 2021, 12:14pm
Wolter wrote:
03 Apr 2021, 9:56am
Honestly unless someone is a straight-up abuser, I tend to not worry about the asshole factor because *waves hand at most of rock history*
Given rock n roll's origins and guiding myths, it's a weird thing to expect sainthood from the musicians.
Yeah. There are some people whose proven crimes or ideology are too heinous for me to support, but it’s always been a fertile ground for egomaniac assholes.
Honestly most popular music is this way. Hip hop is the obvious example as well. But straight up pop music is no exception either. Frank Sinatra's being in bed with organized crime, Cat Stevens calling for the death of Salman Rushdie, Michael Jackson... uh... doing stuff...
Seems like fame breeds some sort of borderline insane god complex. Or perhaps its survivorship bias. The crazy ones are destined to become famous. Who really knows for sure.

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Re: What did the Clash think of Joy Division/the Post Punk Scene

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Don't really care much for Pete Dohertys lifestyle one way or another to be honest, but the circumstances around the death of Mark Blanco are another matter. Doesn't mean i'd think any worse of people listening to his music, but i never really got into his bands anyway and not much inclined to go on a journey of discovery.

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Re: What did the Clash think of Joy Division/the Post Punk Scene

Post by RockNRollWhore »

Low Down Low wrote:
03 Apr 2021, 1:12pm
Don't really care much for Pete Dohertys lifestyle one way or another to be honest, but the circumstances around the death of Mark Blanco are another matter. Doesn't mean i'd think any worse of people listening to his music, but i never really got into his bands anyway and not much inclined to go on a journey of discovery.
For me it's honestly just the first two libs records/non album singles, and a sprinkling of some of the solo stuff. He's a perfect example of wasted potential via drug abuse. Pissed a lot of it away. But I'll be damned if that first record isn't a fucking stone cold classic.
On the other hand, never really got into the Strokes. I feel like the drums sound drum machine like... very anemic cardboardy... sounds like American Apparel noughties hipster advert music.

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Re: What did the Clash think of Joy Division/the Post Punk Scene

Post by Low Down Low »

RockNRollWhore wrote:
03 Apr 2021, 1:19pm
Low Down Low wrote:
03 Apr 2021, 1:12pm
Don't really care much for Pete Dohertys lifestyle one way or another to be honest, but the circumstances around the death of Mark Blanco are another matter. Doesn't mean i'd think any worse of people listening to his music, but i never really got into his bands anyway and not much inclined to go on a journey of discovery.
For me it's honestly just the first two libs records/non album singles, and a sprinkling of some of the solo stuff. He's a perfect example of wasted potential via drug abuse. Pissed a lot of it away. But I'll be damned if that first record isn't a fucking stone cold classic.
On the other hand, never really got into the Strokes. I feel like the drums sound drum machine like... very anemic cardboardy... sounds like American Apparel noughties hipster advert music.
I know lots who were into the libertines so no problem believing it. I remember hearing a couple of Babyshambles tracks i thought were alright but not listened in years. Strokes another of the many i just never got into.

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Re: What did the Clash think of Joy Division/the Post Punk Scene

Post by Inder »

I'd put Down in Albion up there with the first two Libs albums — glad Pete stuck with his guns (Mick) and sacked the rest of the band temporarily when they tried to get a pop producer in for the single. Love the whole sonic "scoop" vibe the album has.

While I'm at it:

- Blinding EP is fantastic
- Shotter's Nation is like a D- album for me, though it has some good tunes.
- Really love Grace/Wastelands.
- Sequel to the Prequel is a B+, love some stuff, other stuff is way too samey
- Hamburg Demonstrations is like C+/B, some great stuff, other great stuff that had the life sucked out of it on record (ie: Down for the Outing)
- haven't listened attentively to the Puta Madres stuff, but I liked it well enough

- Waterloo to Anywhere was goodish, we have someone here who could probably chime in on where Deadwood came from...
- Hugely diminishing returns the rest of the way from Carl. Really nice to his fans the couple of times I saw him.

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Re: What did the Clash think of Joy Division/the Post Punk Scene

Post by RockNRollWhore »

Low Down Low wrote:
03 Apr 2021, 1:33pm
RockNRollWhore wrote:
03 Apr 2021, 1:19pm
Low Down Low wrote:
03 Apr 2021, 1:12pm
Don't really care much for Pete Dohertys lifestyle one way or another to be honest, but the circumstances around the death of Mark Blanco are another matter. Doesn't mean i'd think any worse of people listening to his music, but i never really got into his bands anyway and not much inclined to go on a journey of discovery.
For me it's honestly just the first two libs records/non album singles, and a sprinkling of some of the solo stuff. He's a perfect example of wasted potential via drug abuse. Pissed a lot of it away. But I'll be damned if that first record isn't a fucking stone cold classic.
On the other hand, never really got into the Strokes. I feel like the drums sound drum machine like... very anemic cardboardy... sounds like American Apparel noughties hipster advert music.
I know lots who were into the libertines so no problem believing it. I remember hearing a couple of Babyshambles tracks i thought were alright but not listened in years. Strokes another of the many i just never got into.
No worries we all have our different tastes. It is a fucking trip though to think back. That whole era is going back two decades at this point. Makes me feel fucking old man.

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Re: What did the Clash think of Joy Division/the Post Punk Scene

Post by RockNRollWhore »

Inder wrote:
03 Apr 2021, 1:34pm
I'd put Down in Albion up there with the first two Libs albums — glad Pete stuck with his guns (Mick) and sacked the rest of the band temporarily when they tried to get a pop producer in for the single. Love the whole sonic "scoop" vibe the album has.

While I'm at it:

- Blinding EP is fantastic
- Shotter's Nation is like a D- album for me, though it has some good tunes.
- Really love Grace/Wastelands.
- Sequel to the Prequel is a B+, love some stuff, other stuff is way too samey
- Hamburg Demonstrations is like C+/B, some great stuff, other great stuff that had the life sucked out of it on record (ie: Down for the Outing)
- haven't listened attentively to the Puta Madres stuff, but I liked it well enough

- Waterloo to Anywhere was goodish, we have someone here who could probably chime in on where Deadwood came from...
- Hugely diminishing returns the rest of the way from Carl. Really nice to his fans the couple of times I saw him.


Apparently Pete is a huge Manics fan... lol
Yeah he still manages a few good tunes per record. Gary Powell was the most underrated piece of that band though. What a fucking powerhouse drummer

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Re: What did the Clash think of Joy Division/the Post Punk Scene

Post by RockNRollWhore »

I've often wonder what they thought of Britpop as well. Perhaps Joe Strummer thought Liam Gallagher was a bit of a dunce? Or working class hero?

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Re: What did the Clash think of Joy Division/the Post Punk Scene

Post by Low Down Low »

RockNRollWhore wrote:
03 Apr 2021, 3:19pm
I've often wonder what they thought of Britpop as well. Perhaps Joe Strummer thought Liam Gallagher was a bit of a dunce? Or working class hero?
Would guess he was ok with it, or at least albarn, pulp etc anyway. And doing England's irie and hanging out with Keith Allen and that crowd, wouldn't have thought that was a million miles from the whole britpop scene tbh.

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Re: What did the Clash think of Joy Division/the Post Punk Scene

Post by Kory »

Low Down Low wrote:
03 Apr 2021, 3:59pm
RockNRollWhore wrote:
03 Apr 2021, 3:19pm
I've often wonder what they thought of Britpop as well. Perhaps Joe Strummer thought Liam Gallagher was a bit of a dunce? Or working class hero?
Would guess he was ok with it, or at least albarn, pulp etc anyway. And doing England's irie and hanging out with Keith Allen and that crowd, wouldn't have thought that was a million miles from the whole britpop scene tbh.
And Antony Genn, of course.
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