If Music Could Talk

Olaf wrote: ↑

03 Apr 2021, 7:30am

Before I'd actually heard their music I thought KISS were heavy metal.

A lot of what gets labeled as early metal is extremely subjective. I for one feel like Funhouse by the Stooges is super heavy for the time. The jagged edge guitar riff on down on the street...

I'm a very poor authority on this but a lot of the heavy stuff i like, whether it's lizzy or ac/dc, I'd like for its blues or at least rhythm & blues elements. I don't know how much of that i'd instantly connect to punk, maybe more to early pub rock, but I'd guess if you were to draw a big venn diagram of all these styles, there'd be overlaps all over the place.

Silent Majority wrote: ↑

03 Apr 2021, 5:37am

The old school metal fans I know can't stand the Clash, either. See them as posers banging on about stuff nobody cares about.

Well, I can see their point!

The 'where is the dividing line between punk and metal' debate will go on for ever. Never Mind The Bollocks, minus the vocals, is a Steppenwolf album. Loads of heavy rock fans love it, if they can accept Rotten's voice. And a lot of the NWOBHM bands started off playing the same venues, and sometimes sharing the same bill, as punk and new wave groups - John Peel championed Def Leppard, played their debut single, he saw them as just another young indie band (Joe Elliott said he saw the Pistols when he was a kid and while he didn't 'get' punk enough to go down that route musically, is a big fan of Bollocks and likes the Clash, rating their 1st album their best)
Similarly, the Friday Rock Show on Radio 1 had studio sessions from several punk/ new wave bands for a while. Tommy Vance had no problem with that.
Anyone remember the UK music press (well, Gary Bushell in Sounds) banging on about the 'punk-heavy metal crossover' c. 1980-81? Basically all it meant was metal bands wearing Pistols and Damned t-shirts, and Oi bands wearing Motorhead t-shirts.

JohnS wrote: ↑

03 Apr 2021, 5:30am

My take on his comments are that 'manufacturing' refers to a mastering problem, not a vinyl pressing/quality problem.
Producers often sweat over audio details that go over most people's heads, eg George Martin tried to recall the first pressing run of the Beatles 'Revolver' LP (mono) cos he thought they'd used an inferior mix of 'Tomorrow Never Knows'. The cutting of the stampers used in LP manufacture often gets repeated, sometimes with subtle changes added especially if different equipment is used, and GEER could well have had a subtly revised cutting master remade after the first production run.
I'm sure not one person who bought one of the first 100,000 copies of GEER took it back to the shop complaining about the sound quality
But no amount of remastering or re-cutting would make the Clash a proto- NWOBHM band ! 'Heavy Metal' is more than just a guitar-heavy style, it's a musical genre that is worlds apart from where the Clash came from

Good explanation John, though I didn't understand it
On the heavy metal comparisen, I think either Crocker punched him too hard or not hard enough.

Paul DiAnno was sacked from Iron Maiden pretty much for his musical disconnect with the rest of the band. DiAnno loved Two Tone, but Iron MAiden bossman Steve Harris hated it

white man wrote: ↑

03 Apr 2021, 9:47am

JohnS wrote: ↑

03 Apr 2021, 5:30am

My take on his comments are that 'manufacturing' refers to a mastering problem, not a vinyl pressing/quality problem.
Producers often sweat over audio details that go over most people's heads, eg George Martin tried to recall the first pressing run of the Beatles 'Revolver' LP (mono) cos he thought they'd used an inferior mix of 'Tomorrow Never Knows'. The cutting of the stampers used in LP manufacture often gets repeated, sometimes with subtle changes added especially if different equipment is used, and GEER could well have had a subtly revised cutting master remade after the first production run.
I'm sure not one person who bought one of the first 100,000 copies of GEER took it back to the shop complaining about the sound quality
But no amount of remastering or re-cutting would make the Clash a proto- NWOBHM band ! 'Heavy Metal' is more than just a guitar-heavy style, it's a musical genre that is worlds apart from where the Clash came from

Good explanation John, though I didn't understand it
On the heavy metal comparisen, I think either Crocker punched him too hard or not hard enough.

Hello,

NWOBHM?

gkbill wrote: ↑

03 Apr 2021, 11:29am

Hello,
NWOBHM?

Sorry, = 'New Wave Of British Heavy Metal'
A common phrase in the UK music papers in the early 1980s.
As the name suggests, referring to the likes of Iron Maiden, Saxon, Samson, Girlschool, Def Leppard, Tygers of Pantang, Vardis... blimey I remember more of that lot than I thought!

gkbill h.a. (hates acronyms).

Silent Majority wrote: ↑

03 Apr 2021, 11:45am

gkbill h.a. (hates acronyms).

Hello,

Guilty as charged.

RockNRollWhore wrote: ↑

03 Apr 2021, 7:28am

I feel a strong connection between Thin Lizzy/Clash. Cowboy Song/Gates of the West/Jail Guitar Doors/Groovy Times

Fats from Renegade always makes me think of Jimmy Jazz for some reason.

Olaf wrote: ↑

04 Apr 2021, 1:26pm

RockNRollWhore wrote: ↑

03 Apr 2021, 7:28am

I feel a strong connection between Thin Lizzy/Clash. Cowboy Song/Gates of the West/Jail Guitar Doors/Groovy Times

Fats from Renegade always makes me think of Jimmy Jazz for some reason.

Thin Lizzy were similarly soulful to the Clash. Dancing in the Moonlight would fit comfortably on London Calling. A lot of people forget about the Phil Lynott link with punk rock:



They also had Midge Ure play guitar with them. Ultravox isn"t exactly 100% punk cred I know. I still think that Black Rose has a ton of Punk influence on it.



This could be an early Clash song easy. Minus the crazy soloing maybe (no offense Mick).

Early Ultravox was a little bit punky i think, or punkier anyway, definitely before midge came on board.

I love Lizzy but never made that connection to the Clash. Trying to think of songs i might hear it, maybe Sound of the Sinners and stuff like that is closest? Rory Gallagher, another great irish soul/bluesman also had a big connection to the Pistols, though musically i never really put them together either though. Interesting to think of it in that context all the same.

Thin Lizzy is my favorite “heavy” rock band, at least through the era until Brian Robertson left. The albums after crossed the line into too much dungeons and dragons for me. Maybe that was the heroin. Also live with Gary Moore the soloing was endless, however facile a blues player he may have been. But through 1978 or so they were pretty cool.

TeddyB Not Logged In wrote: ↑

07 Apr 2021, 4:03pm

Thin Lizzy is my favorite “heavy” rock band, at least through the era until Brian Robertson left. The albums after crossed the line into too much dungeons and dragons for me. Maybe that was the heroin. Also live with Gary Moore the soloing was endless, however facile a blues player he may have been. But through 1978 or so they were pretty cool.

Yeah I agree. Though I prefer to consider them as "Hard Rock".

Low Down Low wrote: ↑

07 Apr 2021, 4:08am

Early Ultravox was a little bit punky i think, or punkier anyway, definitely before midge came on board.

I love Lizzy but never made that connection to the Clash. Trying to think of songs i might hear it, maybe Sound of the Sinners and stuff like that is closest? Rory Gallagher, another great irish soul/bluesman also had a big connection to the Pistols, though musically i never really put them together either though. Interesting to think of it in that context all the same.

This could be on cost of living EP... a lot of the western outlaw imagery is similar between the clash and lizzy.