Rat Patrol 2LP acetate

Clash clash clash. ¡VIVAN LOS NORTEAMERICANOS DEL IMCT Y LAS BRIGADAS DEL CADILLAC NUEVO!
Low Down Low
Unknown Immortal
Posts: 4922
Joined: 21 Aug 2014, 9:08am

Re: Rat Patrol 2LP acetate

Post by Low Down Low »

x3em wrote:
29 Jun 2021, 3:36pm
sonnyburnit wrote:
17 May 2021, 10:26pm
matedog wrote:
17 May 2021, 6:51pm
I've been listening to a makeshift Rat Patrol now and it is NOT an easy listen. As a mega fan, it's fascinating for me and I'm very much enjoying it, but I can't imagine what the feedback would have been if released as such. Just look at these track lengths:

Side One:
1. Straight to Hell - 6:52
2. Know Your Rights - 5:00
3. Rock the Casbah - 3:49
4. Red Angel Dragnet - 5:11

Side Two:
1. Should I Stay or Should I Go? - 3:06
2. Ghetto Defendant - 6:13
3. Sean Flynn - 7:22

Side Three:
1. Car Jamming - 3:53
2. The Fulham Connection II - 3:50
3. Atom Tan - 2:43
4. First Night Back in London - 5:11

Side Four:
1. Inoculated City - 4:43
2. Death Is a Star - 3:15
3. Cool Confusion - 3:12
4. Idle in Kangaroo Court W1 - 5:04

It is remarkably non-commercial save for Casbah and Should I Stay. I mean Jesus, who needs a 5 minute Know Your Rights or First Night? Beyond us of course. In the context of the tighter Combat Rock, their alleged sellout album (I guess GEER and LC were also supposed sellout albums depending on who you ask), the two big singles make some sense, but they are definite outliers on Rat Patrol. The other three minute songs are Cool Confusion, Death is a Star, and Atom Tan. Just weird shit. The Rat Patrol mixes are so dense too. Eventhough it's only a double, this one is so much more expansive or bloated (depending on which connotation you want to go with) than Sandinista yet still remarkably different.

Rat Patrol would have completely redone the album narratives. Instead of a tight single album with some experimentation and a couple big singles as a pull back from the over the top Sandinista, you'd have this long, vampy, very experimental album with all sorts of cool percussion/drumming, synthesizer experiments, continued genre experimentation. It makes for a fascinating alternate universe.

For me personally, after immersing myself in so much reggae, dub and, discomixes over the years, I’m totally cool with the longer tracks, I actually prefer it if the song has the right vibe. Why does everything have to be a raga? Because why not, I’m not in any rush.
When I dj or record mixes there isn’t much juggling going on, I like to play out the dubs, versions, and dj cuts to create an experience. I think that’s one of the main reasons why I have such an affinity for RP, I love its sprawling (sometimes messy) ambitiousness and experimentation. I’m not excusing any of Mick’s diva-like tendencies at that time but I would have fought like hell to release my original vision of the record too and would have been none too happy to be expected to show up & help someone else “fix” it with a smile. And although CR turned out to be their biggest commercial success, the shortsightedness looking back is glaring. But listen, record companies aren’t in business to lose money & with the immense pressure to deliver a hit they didn’t have much of a choice but to cave. Joe’s desire to reconnect with their punk roots & bring it all back home/to basics vs. Mick hanging 10 on a new wave with Bernie as special guest referee… a true clash.
Not sure what discussions, if any, there have been had behind the scenes over the years regarding an official band approved release but I know this, bring someone in to do a lush & thoughtful remaster and put that bad boy out on some nice heavyweight double/triple vinyl and I’m all in. In fact, it very well could end up bumping Sandinista as my all time favorite.
100% agree with this, I am generally pro raga! :) 5-7 min is a good track length for a good groovy tune.

In general, long versions of good tracks are heaven I think. For both studio mixes or live recordings. Allowing time for grooves and interesting textures to stretch out. My favorite version of Bob Marley's song Exodus is the 12 minute long live version available on the deluxe version of the album. Or the mind melting 37 minute Sister Ray on Velvet Undergrounds Matrix Room recordings :)

I am all in for a Deluxe or Super Deluxe release too.
With you on this. Long, epic tunes are boss as far as I'm concerned. There's a near 10 minute Mag 7 on one of the Bonds shows and it is, well, magnificent. I kinda wish the Clash had done a bit more of that, but it wasn't their thing I guess, like what the mescaleroes did with bankrobber for example.

Mark^Bastard
Sightsee MC
Posts: 278
Joined: 15 Jan 2009, 2:01am

Re: Rat Patrol 2LP acetate

Post by Mark^Bastard »

Today I listened to Fulhem from this and Beautiful people from sound system on decent headphones. They were remarkably close other than the vocals being noticeably better on sound system. I believe that was more the medium than anything.

Seems like it should be possible to construct a rat patrol from various sources without it being jarring?

matedog
User avatar
Purveyor of Hoyistic Thought
Posts: 25804
Joined: 15 Jun 2008, 4:07pm
Location: 1995

Re: Rat Patrol 2LP acetate

Post by matedog »

Mark^Bastard wrote:
07 Jul 2021, 9:29am
Today I listened to Fulhem from this and Beautiful people from sound system on decent headphones. They were remarkably close other than the vocals being noticeably better on sound system. I believe that was more the medium than anything.

Seems like it should be possible to construct a rat patrol from various sources without it being jarring?
Anyone have the link handy? I believe there are youtube uploads.
Look, you have to establish context for these things. And I maintain that unless you appreciate the Fall of Constantinople, the Great Fire of London, and Mickey Mantle's fatalist alcoholism, live Freddy makes no sense. If you want to half-ass it, fine, go call Simon Schama to do the appendix.

Marzapano
Corner Soul
Posts: 15
Joined: 02 Dec 2009, 10:54am

Re: Rat Patrol 2LP acetate

Post by Marzapano »

Where do I find the First Night Back In London, 5.11 min version? Anybody?

laxman
User avatar
Unknown Immortal
Posts: 3738
Joined: 15 Jun 2008, 6:05pm

Re: Rat Patrol 2LP acetate

Post by laxman »

Marzapano wrote:
07 Jul 2021, 4:02pm
Where do I find the First Night Back In London, 5.11 min version? Anybody?
I think it is a typo on the acetate. If you look at the tracks on the other side of the acetate the same numbered track is 5.11 mins.

WestwayKid
User avatar
Unknown Immortal
Posts: 6704
Joined: 20 Sep 2017, 8:22am
Location: Mill-e-wah-que

Re: Rat Patrol 2LP acetate

Post by WestwayKid »

matedog wrote:
07 Jul 2021, 9:35am
Mark^Bastard wrote:
07 Jul 2021, 9:29am
Today I listened to Fulhem from this and Beautiful people from sound system on decent headphones. They were remarkably close other than the vocals being noticeably better on sound system. I believe that was more the medium than anything.

Seems like it should be possible to construct a rat patrol from various sources without it being jarring?
Anyone have the link handy? I believe there are youtube uploads.
I think Heston uploaded it to his YouTube channel.
"They don't think it be like it is, but it do." - Oscar Gamble

Marzapano
Corner Soul
Posts: 15
Joined: 02 Dec 2009, 10:54am

Re: Rat Patrol 2LP acetate

Post by Marzapano »

Thanks laxman.

x3em
User avatar
Bang Ice Geezer
Posts: 158
Joined: 19 Jun 2008, 7:04pm
Location: San Francisco

Re: Rat Patrol 2LP acetate

Post by x3em »

Mark^Bastard wrote:
07 Jul 2021, 9:29am
Today I listened to Fulhem from this and Beautiful people from sound system on decent headphones. They were remarkably close other than the vocals being noticeably better on sound system. I believe that was more the medium than anything.

Seems like it should be possible to construct a rat patrol from various sources without it being jarring?
Yes, I came to the same conclusion, I loaded the tracks in Cubase and listened to them with one version panned hard left and the other panned hard right. And listening while also visibly comparing the wave forms of the tracks. The are basically identical

"The Fulham Connection II", "First Night Back In London", "Straight To Hell" from the Acetate.
"The Beautiful People Are Ugly Too", "First Night Back In London", "Straight To Hell [Extended Unedited Version]" from Sound System Extra Disc 2.

The Acetate versions runs slightly fast so you have to stretch them a little bit or they go out of sync, And it has some hisses and sound artifacts but to my ears (and eyes) they are otherwise identical.

So I have been listening to a version of the makeshift Rat Patrol with the 4 missing tracks plus also the above 3 from sound system and the rest from the Acetate. Representing the best available versions of these mixes

We could slow down the remaining acetate tracks based on the drift in the 3 tracks above. I suspect they run fast because of the vinyl player they used when they ripped the version from the auction we have now.

This is an amazing double album. I absolutely love it with this track order/these versions.

Heston
User avatar
God of Thunder...and Rock 'n Roll
Posts: 38356
Joined: 15 Jun 2008, 4:07pm
Location: North of Watford Junction

Re: Rat Patrol 2LP acetate

Post by Heston »

WestwayKid wrote:
07 Jul 2021, 4:24pm
matedog wrote:
07 Jul 2021, 9:35am
Mark^Bastard wrote:
07 Jul 2021, 9:29am
Today I listened to Fulhem from this and Beautiful people from sound system on decent headphones. They were remarkably close other than the vocals being noticeably better on sound system. I believe that was more the medium than anything.

Seems like it should be possible to construct a rat patrol from various sources without it being jarring?
Anyone have the link handy? I believe there are youtube uploads.
I think Heston uploaded it to his YouTube channel.
I compiled this playlist using all the best available sources.

There's a tiny, tiny hopeful part of me that says you guys are running a Kaufmanesque long con on the board

Marky Dread
User avatar
Messiah of the Milk Bar
Posts: 58886
Joined: 17 Jun 2008, 11:26am

Re: Rat Patrol 2LP acetate

Post by Marky Dread »

Heston wrote:
09 Jul 2021, 1:27pm
WestwayKid wrote:
07 Jul 2021, 4:24pm
matedog wrote:
07 Jul 2021, 9:35am
Mark^Bastard wrote:
07 Jul 2021, 9:29am
Today I listened to Fulhem from this and Beautiful people from sound system on decent headphones. They were remarkably close other than the vocals being noticeably better on sound system. I believe that was more the medium than anything.

Seems like it should be possible to construct a rat patrol from various sources without it being jarring?
Anyone have the link handy? I believe there are youtube uploads.
I think Heston uploaded it to his YouTube channel.
I compiled this playlist using all the best available sources.

Good work mate.
Image

Forces have been looting
My humanity
Curfews have been curbing
The end of liberty


We're the flowers in the dustbin...
No fuchsias for you.

"Without the common people you're nothing"

Nos Sumus Una Familia

laxman
User avatar
Unknown Immortal
Posts: 3738
Joined: 15 Jun 2008, 6:05pm

Re: Rat Patrol 2LP acetate

Post by laxman »

Thanks Heston. This just makes me want the deluxe version to materialise even more!

Marky Dread
User avatar
Messiah of the Milk Bar
Posts: 58886
Joined: 17 Jun 2008, 11:26am

Re: Rat Patrol 2LP acetate

Post by Marky Dread »

laxman wrote:
09 Jul 2021, 2:50pm
Thanks Heston. This just makes me want the deluxe version to materialise even more!
Definitely.
Image

Forces have been looting
My humanity
Curfews have been curbing
The end of liberty


We're the flowers in the dustbin...
No fuchsias for you.

"Without the common people you're nothing"

Nos Sumus Una Familia

Kory
User avatar
Unknown Immortal
Posts: 17319
Joined: 17 Jun 2008, 1:42pm
Location: In the Discosphere

Re: Rat Patrol 2LP acetate

Post by Kory »

I put together a version that draws from the acetate cleanup (thanks you three!) and some other sources that I can put up. It's pretty consistent, I think. Definitely feels of a piece.

edit: Here it is: :::::::
https://www.mediafire.com/file/7ueg1ne5 ... g.zip/file
"Suck our Earth dick, Martians!" —Doc

ejf1008
Corner Soul
Posts: 2
Joined: 31 Jul 2021, 10:05pm

Re: Rat Patrol 2LP acetate

Post by ejf1008 »

Hi all - first post here; I came across this board when I was googling around for info about Rat Patrol From Fort Brag (one G!), which, until recently, I had never even heard of. (When I was younger, I was strictly a 1977-79 era Clash fan. In recent years, however, I've become much more engaged with Sandinista and CR, which are so forward thinking and impossible to categorize -- way more than "punk" or "rock" music.

Anyway, I only recently learned about the Rat Patrol album - as much as I loved the music, the Clash were never a "learn every piece of trivia about the band" group for me. But I picked a good time to learn about it, since these brand new acetate tracks sound amazing! Some vinyl crackle for sure, but that almost just adds to the feel of it being a lost relic beamed from a long time ago, in a galaxy far away...

It's interesting how much depth these mixes (and longer 'raga' edits!) add to tracks like Inoculated City. Even songs like Atom Tan and Death Is A Star, which aren't substantially changed but somehow have a really different, richer 'feel' than the released versions.

(On the other hand, as great as Mick's original mixes are, I think the CR versions of Know Your Rights and Straight to Hell are way better. The more melodic, more strident vocal in the official KYR makes it into more of a song than a rant - it's fun to hear an alternate vocal, but if I had to pick one, it's the CR one, no contest. And for SYH, I don't mind the extra length -- that song could be 20 minutes long and it would still be too short -- but I think the editing that Glyn Johns did in the official version makes it way stronger, especially dropping the intro riff back in at about three minutes. When I was listening to the longer version, I kept waiting for that part to come in before realizing it must have been a cut and paste by Johns.)

Anyway, I'm happy to have found this board -- especially since everyone's so generous about sharing stuff (to say nothing of the apparently tireless remastering work of Marky Dread!).
-Eric

Heston
User avatar
God of Thunder...and Rock 'n Roll
Posts: 38356
Joined: 15 Jun 2008, 4:07pm
Location: North of Watford Junction

Re: Rat Patrol 2LP acetate

Post by Heston »

ejf1008 wrote:
03 Aug 2021, 7:15pm
Hi all - first post here; I came across this board when I was googling around for info about Rat Patrol From Fort Brag (one G!), which, until recently, I had never even heard of. (When I was younger, I was strictly a 1977-79 era Clash fan. In recent years, however, I've become much more engaged with Sandinista and CR, which are so forward thinking and impossible to categorize -- way more than "punk" or "rock" music.

Anyway, I only recently learned about the Rat Patrol album - as much as I loved the music, the Clash were never a "learn every piece of trivia about the band" group for me. But I picked a good time to learn about it, since these brand new acetate tracks sound amazing! Some vinyl crackle for sure, but that almost just adds to the feel of it being a lost relic beamed from a long time ago, in a galaxy far away...

It's interesting how much depth these mixes (and longer 'raga' edits!) add to tracks like Inoculated City. Even songs like Atom Tan and Death Is A Star, which aren't substantially changed but somehow have a really different, richer 'feel' than the released versions.

(On the other hand, as great as Mick's original mixes are, I think the CR versions of Know Your Rights and Straight to Hell are way better. The more melodic, more strident vocal in the official KYR makes it into more of a song than a rant - it's fun to hear an alternate vocal, but if I had to pick one, it's the CR one, no contest. And for SYH, I don't mind the extra length -- that song could be 20 minutes long and it would still be too short -- but I think the editing that Glyn Johns did in the official version makes it way stronger, especially dropping the intro riff back in at about three minutes. When I was listening to the longer version, I kept waiting for that part to come in before realizing it must have been a cut and paste by Johns.)

Anyway, I'm happy to have found this board -- especially since everyone's so generous about sharing stuff (to say nothing of the apparently tireless remastering work of Marky Dread!).
-Eric
I more or less agree with everything you've said in your first post. Welcome!
There's a tiny, tiny hopeful part of me that says you guys are running a Kaufmanesque long con on the board

Post Reply