Rat Patrol 2LP acetate

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Heston
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Re: Rat Patrol 2LP acetate

Post by Heston »

I still can't believe the improvemnt in Joe's vocal on Ghetto Defendant. Mixing aside, at least Glyn got better vocal takes on a few tracks.
There's a tiny, tiny hopeful part of me that says you guys are running a Kaufmanesque long con on the board

TeddyB Not Logged In
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Re: Rat Patrol 2LP acetate

Post by TeddyB Not Logged In »

I much prefer Rat Patrol as an album, but agree Combat Rock made a couple of improvements. Eric’s comment on Straight to Hell is bang on. I wouldn’t mind if it went on for twenty minutes either, but the Glyn edit is stronger, as is Joe’s vocal on Know Your Rights, though I don’t know if Glyn deserves credit for that. They re-recorded the lead vocals on the songs they projected as the first two singles.

Red Angel
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Re: Rat Patrol 2LP acetate

Post by Red Angel »

After spending nights and days reading and listening, I decided to keep only the bazarboy75 version, the right compromise between fidelity to the original acetate, sound quality and bitrate. However it is a personal vision and I thank all the others who have wasted their time ..... :approve:
Music is the only thing that matters

Marky Dread
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Re: Rat Patrol 2LP acetate

Post by Marky Dread »

Red Angel wrote:
04 Nov 2021, 4:13am
After spending nights and days reading and listening, I decided to keep only the bazarboy75 version, the right compromise between fidelity to the original acetate, sound quality and bitrate. However it is a personal vision and I thank all the others who have wasted their time ..... :approve:
Nobody here wasted their time and there is a version you don't have. 😉
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Heston
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Re: Rat Patrol 2LP acetate

Post by Heston »

Red Angel wrote:
04 Nov 2021, 4:13am
After spending nights and days reading and listening, I decided to keep only the bazarboy75 version, the right compromise between fidelity to the original acetate, sound quality and bitrate. However it is a personal vision and I thank all the others who have wasted their time ..... :approve:
Still attending that charm school I see.
There's a tiny, tiny hopeful part of me that says you guys are running a Kaufmanesque long con on the board

Red Angel
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Re: Rat Patrol 2LP acetate

Post by Red Angel »

Marky Dread wrote:
04 Nov 2021, 6:44am
Red Angel wrote:
04 Nov 2021, 4:13am
After spending nights and days reading and listening, I decided to keep only the bazarboy75 version, the right compromise between fidelity to the original acetate, sound quality and bitrate. However it is a personal vision and I thank all the others who have wasted their time ..... :approve:
Nobody here wasted their time and there is a version you don't have. 😉
I did not know .... but I sleep well anyway! :mrgreen:
Music is the only thing that matters

Marky Dread
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Re: Rat Patrol 2LP acetate

Post by Marky Dread »

Red Angel wrote:
04 Nov 2021, 7:16am
Marky Dread wrote:
04 Nov 2021, 6:44am
Red Angel wrote:
04 Nov 2021, 4:13am
After spending nights and days reading and listening, I decided to keep only the bazarboy75 version, the right compromise between fidelity to the original acetate, sound quality and bitrate. However it is a personal vision and I thank all the others who have wasted their time ..... :approve:
Nobody here wasted their time and there is a version you don't have. 😉
I did not know .... but I sleep well anyway! :mrgreen:
Good stuff.😉
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Forces have been looting
My humanity
Curfews have been curbing
The end of liberty


We're the flowers in the dustbin...
No fuchsias for you.

"Without the common people you're nothing"

Nos Sumus Una Familia

Telecaster
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Re: Rat Patrol 2LP acetate

Post by Telecaster »

A big Christmas thank you to all the great stuff that has been shared this year on IMCT. The acetate of Rat Patrol must be the highlight of all of them. Have a good Christmas everyone.

Mark^Bastard
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Re: Rat Patrol 2LP acetate

Post by Mark^Bastard »

Sort of bumping sort of not...

I'm getting back into this today. I had originally intended to make my own version then got sort of sidetracked with the research part and didn't get that far.

This thread is great, though has a lot of tangents. Is anyone keen on a new thread where we scientifically / methodologically construct the definitive version based on what we have available?

Some of the previous cleanups, while appreciated, have IMO introduced some compression artefacts. I'm guessing it was removing the record surface noise that led to this. And the YouTube one is great, but is on YouTube.

What I've found so far (and this took way too long).
- The correct speed change was -1.564% to get the acetate to match Sound System. There was still some variation over the song though. I believe the record wasn't consistently playing at 33 1/3 RPM and therefore the variations may match up with a revolution of the record. Perhaps it was warped? But I'm not smart enough to figure out how to correct something like this anyway. Ideally you'd diff the tracks that are on the acetate AND sound system, 'learn' from the diff, and automatically apply this knowledge to the acetate songs that don't have a Sound System version.

With EQ it was the same, I tried to do analysis on both tracks, screen shot, then transfer to photoshop to overlay and cut levels at each frequency, but it proved hard and I found dropping 2.66 db RMS from the acetate matched it to Sound System quite well.

As for surface noise, given it's most prominent on the first and last tracks of each side I don't think it's worth any automatic filtering of this, it takes out too much of the 'real' sound and adds in what I consider to sound like an inferior sound compared to the raw acetate rip.

To address someone early on who asked a question about it going from 130kbps to FLAC, there is a good reason to do that. Even though this can't add fidelity to the track, after it's been modified to change speed or levels or anything like that, if you recompress you will add in double the compression artefacts compared to the original rip, so it's better to go with FLAC in this case IMO.

If we do work on a definitive version, is mega still the only place to host it? I remember this forum used to have a way to host bootlegs a long time ago.

Marky Dread
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Re: Rat Patrol 2LP acetate

Post by Marky Dread »

Mark^Bastard wrote:
24 Jan 2022, 3:53am
Sort of bumping sort of not...

I'm getting back into this today. I had originally intended to make my own version then got sort of sidetracked with the research part and didn't get that far.

This thread is great, though has a lot of tangents. Is anyone keen on a new thread where we scientifically / methodologically construct the definitive version based on what we have available?

Some of the previous cleanups, while appreciated, have IMO introduced some compression artefacts. I'm guessing it was removing the record surface noise that led to this. And the YouTube one is great, but is on YouTube.

What I've found so far (and this took way too long).
- The correct speed change was -1.564% to get the acetate to match Sound System. There was still some variation over the song though. I believe the record wasn't consistently playing at 33 1/3 RPM and therefore the variations may match up with a revolution of the record. Perhaps it was warped? But I'm not smart enough to figure out how to correct something like this anyway. Ideally you'd diff the tracks that are on the acetate AND sound system, 'learn' from the diff, and automatically apply this knowledge to the acetate songs that don't have a Sound System version.

With EQ it was the same, I tried to do analysis on both tracks, screen shot, then transfer to photoshop to overlay and cut levels at each frequency, but it proved hard and I found dropping 2.66 db RMS from the acetate matched it to Sound System quite well.

As for surface noise, given it's most prominent on the first and last tracks of each side I don't think it's worth any automatic filtering of this, it takes out too much of the 'real' sound and adds in what I consider to sound like an inferior sound compared to the raw acetate rip.

To address someone early on who asked a question about it going from 130kbps to FLAC, there is a good reason to do that. Even though this can't add fidelity to the track, after it's been modified to change speed or levels or anything like that, if you recompress you will add in double the compression artefacts compared to the original rip, so it's better to go with FLAC in this case IMO.

If we do work on a definitive version, is mega still the only place to host it? I remember this forum used to have a way to host bootlegs a long time ago.
How do you mean "definitive"? Sounding better perhaps. The version on YouTube is good and I have that in Flac.

A version is to get an official release sometime this year.
Image

Forces have been looting
My humanity
Curfews have been curbing
The end of liberty


We're the flowers in the dustbin...
No fuchsias for you.

"Without the common people you're nothing"

Nos Sumus Una Familia

chocolatejesus
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Re: Rat Patrol 2LP acetate

Post by chocolatejesus »

Marky Dread wrote:
24 Jan 2022, 8:40am

A version is to get an official release sometime this year.
Is that Safe? Or at least safer than the Bonds/Westway2 Release?

Heston
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Re: Rat Patrol 2LP acetate

Post by Heston »

chocolatejesus wrote:
24 Jan 2022, 10:27am
Marky Dread wrote:
24 Jan 2022, 8:40am

A version is to get an official release sometime this year.
Is that Safe? Or at least safer than the Bonds/Westway2 Release?
Or the Sandinista and 10 Upping St deluxe versions. Promises promises.
There's a tiny, tiny hopeful part of me that says you guys are running a Kaufmanesque long con on the board

Marky Dread
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Re: Rat Patrol 2LP acetate

Post by Marky Dread »

chocolatejesus wrote:
24 Jan 2022, 10:27am
Marky Dread wrote:
24 Jan 2022, 8:40am

A version is to get an official release sometime this year.
Is that Safe? Or at least safer than the Bonds/Westway2 Release?
Yep.
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Forces have been looting
My humanity
Curfews have been curbing
The end of liberty


We're the flowers in the dustbin...
No fuchsias for you.

"Without the common people you're nothing"

Nos Sumus Una Familia

matedog
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Re: Rat Patrol 2LP acetate

Post by matedog »

Heston wrote:
24 Jan 2022, 10:28am
chocolatejesus wrote:
24 Jan 2022, 10:27am
Marky Dread wrote:
24 Jan 2022, 8:40am

A version is to get an official release sometime this year.
Is that Safe? Or at least safer than the Bonds/Westway2 Release?
Or the Sandinista and 10 Upping St deluxe versions. Promises promises.
We are a long suffering bunch.
Look, you have to establish context for these things. And I maintain that unless you appreciate the Fall of Constantinople, the Great Fire of London, and Mickey Mantle's fatalist alcoholism, live Freddy makes no sense. If you want to half-ass it, fine, go call Simon Schama to do the appendix.

Marky Dread
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Re: Rat Patrol 2LP acetate

Post by Marky Dread »

matedog wrote:
24 Jan 2022, 2:17pm
Heston wrote:
24 Jan 2022, 10:28am
chocolatejesus wrote:
24 Jan 2022, 10:27am
Marky Dread wrote:
24 Jan 2022, 8:40am

A version is to get an official release sometime this year.
Is that Safe? Or at least safer than the Bonds/Westway2 Release?
Or the Sandinista and 10 Upping St deluxe versions. Promises promises.
We are a long suffering bunch.
Except we get most of it for free.
Image

Forces have been looting
My humanity
Curfews have been curbing
The end of liberty


We're the flowers in the dustbin...
No fuchsias for you.

"Without the common people you're nothing"

Nos Sumus Una Familia

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