Rat Patrol 2LP acetate

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Heston
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Re: Rat Patrol 2LP acetate

Post by Heston »

Mark^Bastard wrote:
25 Jan 2022, 9:13pm
So I have been hooked up with a version that removes my need to master one myself (a PM here, not a new source).

My observation is this is the true worthy follow up to Sandinista!, And if you think of it in the context of LC to Sandinista to this, all in the space of 2-3 years, I feel like my love for the Clash just went up again.

I no longer believe there is ANY superiority in Combat Rock, including vocal takes from Joe. I prefer the relaxed ones in this. A Know your rights / straight to hell double A side single with the Combat Rock takes means we wouldn't have lost anything big.

Combat Rock never felt like a proper album to me. Too disjointed and sterile. This is is instead a perfect extension to Sandinista with a cool down pace to it. The two openers really illustrate this, Magnificent 7 and Straight to hell are both bass driven long numbers but one is an amp up and the other a melancholy affair. One starts abruptly, the other fades in as if to say welcome back. It is just perfect.

All I need now is a fixed Give em enough rope :rolleyes:
What is broken on it?
There's a tiny, tiny hopeful part of me that says you guys are running a Kaufmanesque long con on the board

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Re: Rat Patrol 2LP acetate

Post by Mark^Bastard »

I have always felt it was mastered wrong and has a little lack of soul and groove. Stay Free being the exception. The songs before and after it have a more organic sound. A lot of the non-album tracks from around that time seemed a lot stronger to me.

What I would fix is adding a couple of songs, changing the mastering and in particular that strange guitar tone and the vocals mixed too low.

Its not bad, its not perfect either imo

Heston
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Re: Rat Patrol 2LP acetate

Post by Heston »

Mark^Bastard wrote:
25 Jan 2022, 9:24pm
I have always felt it was mastered wrong and has a little lack of soul and groove. Stay Free being the exception. The songs before and after it have a more organic sound. A lot of the non-album tracks from around that time seemed a lot stronger to me.

What I would fix is adding a couple of songs, changing the mastering and in particular that strange guitar tone and the vocals mixed too low.

Its not bad, its not perfect either imo
I get your points but GEER does sound great up loud. I don't really think they hit their stride production-wise until the COL EP. I have reservations and grumbles about everything up til then.
There's a tiny, tiny hopeful part of me that says you guys are running a Kaufmanesque long con on the board

Marky Dread
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Re: Rat Patrol 2LP acetate

Post by Marky Dread »

Heston wrote:
26 Jan 2022, 12:13pm
Mark^Bastard wrote:
25 Jan 2022, 9:24pm
I have always felt it was mastered wrong and has a little lack of soul and groove. Stay Free being the exception. The songs before and after it have a more organic sound. A lot of the non-album tracks from around that time seemed a lot stronger to me.

What I would fix is adding a couple of songs, changing the mastering and in particular that strange guitar tone and the vocals mixed too low.

Its not bad, its not perfect either imo
I get your points but GEER does sound great up loud. I don't really think they hit their stride production-wise until the COL EP. I have reservations and grumbles about everything up til then.
I'll always prefer the demos. If only that guy would cough up the tape. Not that my remaster was bad considering what I had to work with that is.
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Curfews have been curbing
The end of liberty


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No fuchsias for you.

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Heston
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Re: Rat Patrol 2LP acetate

Post by Heston »

Marky Dread wrote:
26 Jan 2022, 12:21pm
Heston wrote:
26 Jan 2022, 12:13pm
Mark^Bastard wrote:
25 Jan 2022, 9:24pm
I have always felt it was mastered wrong and has a little lack of soul and groove. Stay Free being the exception. The songs before and after it have a more organic sound. A lot of the non-album tracks from around that time seemed a lot stronger to me.

What I would fix is adding a couple of songs, changing the mastering and in particular that strange guitar tone and the vocals mixed too low.

Its not bad, its not perfect either imo
I get your points but GEER does sound great up loud. I don't really think they hit their stride production-wise until the COL EP. I have reservations and grumbles about everything up til then.
I'll always prefer the demos. If only that guy would cough up the tape. Not that my remaster was bad considering what I had to work with that is.
The problem is you're mastering something that is already mastered. I daresay if you had the original album pre-mastering you could have done an even better job.
There's a tiny, tiny hopeful part of me that says you guys are running a Kaufmanesque long con on the board

Marky Dread
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Re: Rat Patrol 2LP acetate

Post by Marky Dread »

Heston wrote:
26 Jan 2022, 12:32pm
Marky Dread wrote:
26 Jan 2022, 12:21pm
Heston wrote:
26 Jan 2022, 12:13pm
Mark^Bastard wrote:
25 Jan 2022, 9:24pm
I have always felt it was mastered wrong and has a little lack of soul and groove. Stay Free being the exception. The songs before and after it have a more organic sound. A lot of the non-album tracks from around that time seemed a lot stronger to me.

What I would fix is adding a couple of songs, changing the mastering and in particular that strange guitar tone and the vocals mixed too low.

Its not bad, its not perfect either imo
I get your points but GEER does sound great up loud. I don't really think they hit their stride production-wise until the COL EP. I have reservations and grumbles about everything up til then.
I'll always prefer the demos. If only that guy would cough up the tape. Not that my remaster was bad considering what I had to work with that is.
The problem is you're mastering something that is already mastered. I daresay if you had the original album pre-mastering you could have done an even better job.
Image

Forces have been looting
My humanity
Curfews have been curbing
The end of liberty


We're the flowers in the dustbin...
No fuchsias for you.

"Without the common people you're nothing"

Nos Sumus Una Familia

Heston
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Re: Rat Patrol 2LP acetate

Post by Heston »

Marky Dread wrote:
26 Jan 2022, 12:35pm
Heston wrote:
26 Jan 2022, 12:32pm
Marky Dread wrote:
26 Jan 2022, 12:21pm
Heston wrote:
26 Jan 2022, 12:13pm
Mark^Bastard wrote:
25 Jan 2022, 9:24pm
I have always felt it was mastered wrong and has a little lack of soul and groove. Stay Free being the exception. The songs before and after it have a more organic sound. A lot of the non-album tracks from around that time seemed a lot stronger to me.

What I would fix is adding a couple of songs, changing the mastering and in particular that strange guitar tone and the vocals mixed too low.

Its not bad, its not perfect either imo
I get your points but GEER does sound great up loud. I don't really think they hit their stride production-wise until the COL EP. I have reservations and grumbles about everything up til then.
I'll always prefer the demos. If only that guy would cough up the tape. Not that my remaster was bad considering what I had to work with that is.
The problem is you're mastering something that is already mastered. I daresay if you had the original album pre-mastering you could have done an even better job.
Silly Liam, in these cases the remastering people will have the pre-mastered tapes.
There's a tiny, tiny hopeful part of me that says you guys are running a Kaufmanesque long con on the board

Marky Dread
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Re: Rat Patrol 2LP acetate

Post by Marky Dread »

Heston wrote:
26 Jan 2022, 12:42pm
Marky Dread wrote:
26 Jan 2022, 12:35pm
Heston wrote:
26 Jan 2022, 12:32pm
Marky Dread wrote:
26 Jan 2022, 12:21pm
Heston wrote:
26 Jan 2022, 12:13pm


I get your points but GEER does sound great up loud. I don't really think they hit their stride production-wise until the COL EP. I have reservations and grumbles about everything up til then.
I'll always prefer the demos. If only that guy would cough up the tape. Not that my remaster was bad considering what I had to work with that is.
The problem is you're mastering something that is already mastered. I daresay if you had the original album pre-mastering you could have done an even better job.
Silly Liam, in these cases the remastering people will have the pre-mastered tapes.
I wish someone would remaster him!
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Forces have been looting
My humanity
Curfews have been curbing
The end of liberty


We're the flowers in the dustbin...
No fuchsias for you.

"Without the common people you're nothing"

Nos Sumus Una Familia

Mark^Bastard
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Re: Rat Patrol 2LP acetate

Post by Mark^Bastard »

Heston wrote:
26 Jan 2022, 12:13pm
Mark^Bastard wrote:
25 Jan 2022, 9:24pm
I have always felt it was mastered wrong and has a little lack of soul and groove. Stay Free being the exception. The songs before and after it have a more organic sound. A lot of the non-album tracks from around that time seemed a lot stronger to me.

What I would fix is adding a couple of songs, changing the mastering and in particular that strange guitar tone and the vocals mixed too low.

Its not bad, its not perfect either imo
I get your points but GEER does sound great up loud. I don't really think they hit their stride production-wise until the COL EP. I have reservations and grumbles about everything up til then.
I can see a sort of natural progression from White Riot to COL but GEER seems like an odd side step. Like as if the band had to take too many takes and the sound was messed with too much.

Plus I went and looked at the recording sessions thread and there are some absolute gems recorded in 78 that didn't make the album so I still think it would have been better and more in fitting with the Clash as a 15-16 track album, or at the least a 44 minute album to properly fill up a single LP.

Kory
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Re: Rat Patrol 2LP acetate

Post by Kory »

Mark^Bastard wrote:
26 Jan 2022, 6:53pm
Heston wrote:
26 Jan 2022, 12:13pm
Mark^Bastard wrote:
25 Jan 2022, 9:24pm
I have always felt it was mastered wrong and has a little lack of soul and groove. Stay Free being the exception. The songs before and after it have a more organic sound. A lot of the non-album tracks from around that time seemed a lot stronger to me.

What I would fix is adding a couple of songs, changing the mastering and in particular that strange guitar tone and the vocals mixed too low.

Its not bad, its not perfect either imo
I get your points but GEER does sound great up loud. I don't really think they hit their stride production-wise until the COL EP. I have reservations and grumbles about everything up til then.
I can see a sort of natural progression from White Riot to COL but GEER seems like an odd side step. Like as if the band had to take too many takes and the sound was messed with too much.

Plus I went and looked at the recording sessions thread and there are some absolute gems recorded in 78 that didn't make the album so I still think it would have been better and more in fitting with the Clash as a 15-16 track album, or at the least a 44 minute album to properly fill up a single LP.
We know that Paul at least did a lot of takes.
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Mark^Bastard
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Re: Rat Patrol 2LP acetate

Post by Mark^Bastard »

Is it true that Mick wanted this a double LP with a bonus 12" single? Making it a triple 12" like Sandinista? That is hilarious

Marky Dread
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Re: Rat Patrol 2LP acetate

Post by Marky Dread »

Mark^Bastard wrote:
28 Jan 2022, 7:24pm
Is it true that Mick wanted this a double LP with a bonus 12" single? Making it a triple 12" like Sandinista? That is hilarious
Not exactly a triple like Sandinista! As that has 36 tracks spread across 3 vinyl albums.

"Rat Patrol" a double album with a free 12" with a couple of mixes. Three sides of vinyl but not a triple album.
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Mark^Bastard
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Re: Rat Patrol 2LP acetate

Post by Mark^Bastard »

But wouldn't that be even harder for the record company to stomach? They'd need to press three LPs either way and in the case of Sandinista it was at least 36 songs. In this case they would be fuming the songs couldn't just be shorter to fit at most on 2 LPs like LC.

Marky Dread
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Re: Rat Patrol 2LP acetate

Post by Marky Dread »

Mark^Bastard wrote:
28 Jan 2022, 8:15pm
But wouldn't that be even harder for the record company to stomach? They'd need to press three LPs either way and in the case of Sandinista it was at least 36 songs. In this case they would be fuming the songs couldn't just be shorter to fit at most on 2 LPs like LC.
Well Sandinista! was sold to CBS as a double with a free 12" also. Only the 12" would have 6 tracks on it. The label retaliated and the band had to forgo any royalties on the first 200,000 copies sold in the UK and a 50% cut in royalties elsewhere. To ensure it sold for £4.99 I think originally.
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Forces have been looting
My humanity
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The end of liberty


We're the flowers in the dustbin...
No fuchsias for you.

"Without the common people you're nothing"

Nos Sumus Una Familia

Red Angel
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Re: Rat Patrol 2LP acetate

Post by Red Angel »

If "Overpowered By Funk (Extended New York Mix)" was meant for a 12'' (presumably A-side), what would be the songs on the B-side, had they already been thought of with certainty?
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