Re: Rat Patrol 2LP acetate
Posted: 03 Aug 2021, 8:27pm
I still can't believe the improvemnt in Joe's vocal on Ghetto Defendant. Mixing aside, at least Glyn got better vocal takes on a few tracks.
If Music Could Talk
Rat Patrol 2LP acetate
Page 44 of 50
Re: Rat Patrol 2LP acetate
Posted: 03 Aug 2021, 11:03pm
I much prefer Rat Patrol as an album, but agree Combat Rock made a couple of improvements. Eric’s comment on Straight to Hell is bang on. I wouldn’t mind if it went on for twenty minutes either, but the Glyn edit is stronger, as is Joe’s vocal on Know Your Rights, though I don’t know if Glyn deserves credit for that. They re-recorded the lead vocals on the songs they projected as the first two singles.
Re: Rat Patrol 2LP acetate
Posted: 04 Nov 2021, 4:13am
After spending nights and days reading and listening, I decided to keep only the bazarboy75 version, the right compromise between fidelity to the original acetate, sound quality and bitrate. However it is a personal vision and I thank all the others who have wasted their time ..... 
Re: Rat Patrol 2LP acetate
Posted: 04 Nov 2021, 6:44am
Nobody here wasted their time and there is a version you don't have.Red Angel wrote: ↑04 Nov 2021, 4:13amAfter spending nights and days reading and listening, I decided to keep only the bazarboy75 version, the right compromise between fidelity to the original acetate, sound quality and bitrate. However it is a personal vision and I thank all the others who have wasted their time .....
Re: Rat Patrol 2LP acetate
Posted: 04 Nov 2021, 6:54am
Still attending that charm school I see.Red Angel wrote: ↑04 Nov 2021, 4:13amAfter spending nights and days reading and listening, I decided to keep only the bazarboy75 version, the right compromise between fidelity to the original acetate, sound quality and bitrate. However it is a personal vision and I thank all the others who have wasted their time .....
Re: Rat Patrol 2LP acetate
Posted: 04 Nov 2021, 7:16am
I did not know .... but I sleep well anyway!Marky Dread wrote: ↑04 Nov 2021, 6:44amNobody here wasted their time and there is a version you don't have.Red Angel wrote: ↑04 Nov 2021, 4:13amAfter spending nights and days reading and listening, I decided to keep only the bazarboy75 version, the right compromise between fidelity to the original acetate, sound quality and bitrate. However it is a personal vision and I thank all the others who have wasted their time .....
Re: Rat Patrol 2LP acetate
Posted: 04 Nov 2021, 7:36am
Good stuff.Red Angel wrote: ↑04 Nov 2021, 7:16amI did not know .... but I sleep well anyway!Marky Dread wrote: ↑04 Nov 2021, 6:44amNobody here wasted their time and there is a version you don't have.Red Angel wrote: ↑04 Nov 2021, 4:13amAfter spending nights and days reading and listening, I decided to keep only the bazarboy75 version, the right compromise between fidelity to the original acetate, sound quality and bitrate. However it is a personal vision and I thank all the others who have wasted their time .....
Re: Rat Patrol 2LP acetate
Posted: 25 Dec 2021, 7:17am
A big Christmas thank you to all the great stuff that has been shared this year on IMCT. The acetate of Rat Patrol must be the highlight of all of them. Have a good Christmas everyone.
Re: Rat Patrol 2LP acetate
Posted: 24 Jan 2022, 3:53am
Sort of bumping sort of not...
I'm getting back into this today. I had originally intended to make my own version then got sort of sidetracked with the research part and didn't get that far.
This thread is great, though has a lot of tangents. Is anyone keen on a new thread where we scientifically / methodologically construct the definitive version based on what we have available?
Some of the previous cleanups, while appreciated, have IMO introduced some compression artefacts. I'm guessing it was removing the record surface noise that led to this. And the YouTube one is great, but is on YouTube.
What I've found so far (and this took way too long).
- The correct speed change was -1.564% to get the acetate to match Sound System. There was still some variation over the song though. I believe the record wasn't consistently playing at 33 1/3 RPM and therefore the variations may match up with a revolution of the record. Perhaps it was warped? But I'm not smart enough to figure out how to correct something like this anyway. Ideally you'd diff the tracks that are on the acetate AND sound system, 'learn' from the diff, and automatically apply this knowledge to the acetate songs that don't have a Sound System version.
With EQ it was the same, I tried to do analysis on both tracks, screen shot, then transfer to photoshop to overlay and cut levels at each frequency, but it proved hard and I found dropping 2.66 db RMS from the acetate matched it to Sound System quite well.
As for surface noise, given it's most prominent on the first and last tracks of each side I don't think it's worth any automatic filtering of this, it takes out too much of the 'real' sound and adds in what I consider to sound like an inferior sound compared to the raw acetate rip.
To address someone early on who asked a question about it going from 130kbps to FLAC, there is a good reason to do that. Even though this can't add fidelity to the track, after it's been modified to change speed or levels or anything like that, if you recompress you will add in double the compression artefacts compared to the original rip, so it's better to go with FLAC in this case IMO.
If we do work on a definitive version, is mega still the only place to host it? I remember this forum used to have a way to host bootlegs a long time ago.
I'm getting back into this today. I had originally intended to make my own version then got sort of sidetracked with the research part and didn't get that far.
This thread is great, though has a lot of tangents. Is anyone keen on a new thread where we scientifically / methodologically construct the definitive version based on what we have available?
Some of the previous cleanups, while appreciated, have IMO introduced some compression artefacts. I'm guessing it was removing the record surface noise that led to this. And the YouTube one is great, but is on YouTube.
What I've found so far (and this took way too long).
- The correct speed change was -1.564% to get the acetate to match Sound System. There was still some variation over the song though. I believe the record wasn't consistently playing at 33 1/3 RPM and therefore the variations may match up with a revolution of the record. Perhaps it was warped? But I'm not smart enough to figure out how to correct something like this anyway. Ideally you'd diff the tracks that are on the acetate AND sound system, 'learn' from the diff, and automatically apply this knowledge to the acetate songs that don't have a Sound System version.
With EQ it was the same, I tried to do analysis on both tracks, screen shot, then transfer to photoshop to overlay and cut levels at each frequency, but it proved hard and I found dropping 2.66 db RMS from the acetate matched it to Sound System quite well.
As for surface noise, given it's most prominent on the first and last tracks of each side I don't think it's worth any automatic filtering of this, it takes out too much of the 'real' sound and adds in what I consider to sound like an inferior sound compared to the raw acetate rip.
To address someone early on who asked a question about it going from 130kbps to FLAC, there is a good reason to do that. Even though this can't add fidelity to the track, after it's been modified to change speed or levels or anything like that, if you recompress you will add in double the compression artefacts compared to the original rip, so it's better to go with FLAC in this case IMO.
If we do work on a definitive version, is mega still the only place to host it? I remember this forum used to have a way to host bootlegs a long time ago.
Re: Rat Patrol 2LP acetate
Posted: 24 Jan 2022, 8:40am
How do you mean "definitive"? Sounding better perhaps. The version on YouTube is good and I have that in Flac.Mark^Bastard wrote: ↑24 Jan 2022, 3:53amSort of bumping sort of not...
I'm getting back into this today. I had originally intended to make my own version then got sort of sidetracked with the research part and didn't get that far.
This thread is great, though has a lot of tangents. Is anyone keen on a new thread where we scientifically / methodologically construct the definitive version based on what we have available?
Some of the previous cleanups, while appreciated, have IMO introduced some compression artefacts. I'm guessing it was removing the record surface noise that led to this. And the YouTube one is great, but is on YouTube.
What I've found so far (and this took way too long).
- The correct speed change was -1.564% to get the acetate to match Sound System. There was still some variation over the song though. I believe the record wasn't consistently playing at 33 1/3 RPM and therefore the variations may match up with a revolution of the record. Perhaps it was warped? But I'm not smart enough to figure out how to correct something like this anyway. Ideally you'd diff the tracks that are on the acetate AND sound system, 'learn' from the diff, and automatically apply this knowledge to the acetate songs that don't have a Sound System version.
With EQ it was the same, I tried to do analysis on both tracks, screen shot, then transfer to photoshop to overlay and cut levels at each frequency, but it proved hard and I found dropping 2.66 db RMS from the acetate matched it to Sound System quite well.
As for surface noise, given it's most prominent on the first and last tracks of each side I don't think it's worth any automatic filtering of this, it takes out too much of the 'real' sound and adds in what I consider to sound like an inferior sound compared to the raw acetate rip.
To address someone early on who asked a question about it going from 130kbps to FLAC, there is a good reason to do that. Even though this can't add fidelity to the track, after it's been modified to change speed or levels or anything like that, if you recompress you will add in double the compression artefacts compared to the original rip, so it's better to go with FLAC in this case IMO.
If we do work on a definitive version, is mega still the only place to host it? I remember this forum used to have a way to host bootlegs a long time ago.
A version is to get an official release sometime this year.
Re: Rat Patrol 2LP acetate
Posted: 24 Jan 2022, 10:27am
Is that Safe? Or at least safer than the Bonds/Westway2 Release?
Re: Rat Patrol 2LP acetate
Posted: 24 Jan 2022, 10:28am
Or the Sandinista and 10 Upping St deluxe versions. Promises promises.chocolatejesus wrote: ↑24 Jan 2022, 10:27amIs that Safe? Or at least safer than the Bonds/Westway2 Release?
Re: Rat Patrol 2LP acetate
Posted: 24 Jan 2022, 12:39pm
Yep.chocolatejesus wrote: ↑24 Jan 2022, 10:27amIs that Safe? Or at least safer than the Bonds/Westway2 Release?
Re: Rat Patrol 2LP acetate
Posted: 24 Jan 2022, 2:17pm
We are a long suffering bunch.Heston wrote: ↑24 Jan 2022, 10:28amOr the Sandinista and 10 Upping St deluxe versions. Promises promises.chocolatejesus wrote: ↑24 Jan 2022, 10:27amIs that Safe? Or at least safer than the Bonds/Westway2 Release?
Re: Rat Patrol 2LP acetate
Posted: 24 Jan 2022, 2:43pm
Except we get most of it for free.