Sequencing of US Debut

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Marky Dread
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Re: Sequencing of US Debut

Post by Marky Dread »

deny wrote:
03 Oct 2022, 3:45pm
Marky Dread wrote:
03 Oct 2022, 3:02pm
motorsmell wrote:
03 Oct 2022, 12:24pm
Marky Dread wrote:
03 Oct 2022, 4:22am
msza2 wrote:
01 Oct 2022, 10:46am


I'm listening to the US s/t this morning and went hunting for this thread.

We've solved the sequencing question but I'm curious Teddy if you or anyone else may know the circumstances behind track selection of the US version. Did the band also have "complete control" over which songs were dropped from the original and which singles were added?

If so then it seems to imply that they weren't in favor of releasing it in the States in it's original configuration. At first that seems a bit surprising as the most famous example of reconfigured US versions of UK albums comes from the Beatles's early catalogue and they supposedly hated that the original albums were altered for the US.

I can see a scenario, though, in which the label tells the Clash that they have finally come to their senses and decided to release the debut in the States, and then the band, in keeping with their value-for-money ethos, says, "well a lot of people have bought it as an import already so we'll add some newer material." Then again they could have just preferred the newer songs and/or dropped the songs from the album that they had already dropped from their live repertoire.

But then it makes me wonder why they wouldn't have thrown on other songs like the Prison, City of the Dead, and Capital Radio. So many questions!
The important thing to remember is it's not a debut album it's a compilation. In my opinion this album should've had a different title and packaging.
I've got the Japanese pressing called Pearl harbor that has ( the same track list as the U.S press, I think). Rather than the usual OBI strip with Japanese info on they gave it an extra sleeve completely changing the art and title..
Yes I have that with the extra outer sleeve. Plus the 7" of Gates of the West/Groovy Times.
The extra outer sleeve is actually the obi for the album.
The mighty Obi Wan has spoken.
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Kory
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Re: Sequencing of US Debut

Post by Kory »

Marky Dread wrote:
03 Oct 2022, 4:15pm
deny wrote:
03 Oct 2022, 3:45pm
Marky Dread wrote:
03 Oct 2022, 3:02pm
motorsmell wrote:
03 Oct 2022, 12:24pm
Marky Dread wrote:
03 Oct 2022, 4:22am


The important thing to remember is it's not a debut album it's a compilation. In my opinion this album should've had a different title and packaging.
I've got the Japanese pressing called Pearl harbor that has ( the same track list as the U.S press, I think). Rather than the usual OBI strip with Japanese info on they gave it an extra sleeve completely changing the art and title..
Yes I have that with the extra outer sleeve. Plus the 7" of Gates of the West/Groovy Times.
The extra outer sleeve is actually the obi for the album.
The mighty Obi Wan has spoken.
The only Jedi that banters.
"Toto is OK." —Inder

Marky Dread
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Re: Sequencing of US Debut

Post by Marky Dread »

Kory wrote:
04 Oct 2022, 4:50pm
Marky Dread wrote:
03 Oct 2022, 4:15pm
deny wrote:
03 Oct 2022, 3:45pm
Marky Dread wrote:
03 Oct 2022, 3:02pm
motorsmell wrote:
03 Oct 2022, 12:24pm


I've got the Japanese pressing called Pearl harbor that has ( the same track list as the U.S press, I think). Rather than the usual OBI strip with Japanese info on they gave it an extra sleeve completely changing the art and title..
Yes I have that with the extra outer sleeve. Plus the 7" of Gates of the West/Groovy Times.
The extra outer sleeve is actually the obi for the album.
The mighty Obi Wan has spoken.
The only Jedi that banters.
The only Jedi with Bantha's.
Image

Forces have been looting
My humanity
Curfews have been curbing
The end of liberty


We're the flowers in the dustbin...
No fuchsias for you.

"Without the common people you're nothing"

msza2
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Joined: 22 Aug 2012, 2:15pm

Re: Sequencing of US Debut

Post by msza2 »

Marky Dread wrote:
03 Oct 2022, 3:00pm
msza2 wrote:
03 Oct 2022, 9:41am
Marky Dread wrote:
03 Oct 2022, 4:22am
msza2 wrote:
01 Oct 2022, 10:46am
TeddyB Not Logged In wrote:
03 Aug 2021, 10:56pm
Yes, the group sequenced the US version. Hes is right, they would never have let anyone else do it. In fact, they have sequenced every release, all the official compilations, even the Singles collection where Mick agreed to include This is England, which he regrets.
I'm listening to the US s/t this morning and went hunting for this thread.

We've solved the sequencing question but I'm curious Teddy if you or anyone else may know the circumstances behind track selection of the US version. Did the band also have "complete control" over which songs were dropped from the original and which singles were added?

If so then it seems to imply that they weren't in favor of releasing it in the States in it's original configuration. At first that seems a bit surprising as the most famous example of reconfigured US versions of UK albums comes from the Beatles's early catalogue and they supposedly hated that the original albums were altered for the US.

I can see a scenario, though, in which the label tells the Clash that they have finally come to their senses and decided to release the debut in the States, and then the band, in keeping with their value-for-money ethos, says, "well a lot of people have bought it as an import already so we'll add some newer material." Then again they could have just preferred the newer songs and/or dropped the songs from the album that they had already dropped from their live repertoire.

But then it makes me wonder why they wouldn't have thrown on other songs like the Prison, City of the Dead, and Capital Radio. So many questions!
The important thing to remember is it's not a debut album it's a compilation. In my opinion this album should've had a different title and packaging.
Yeah, I think that's a fair assessment, though I'd argue that distinction is baked into the UK/US terminology.

I remember standing in the record store holding the UK album in one hand and the US edition in the other and trying to decide which to buy. Even though I could intuit that the UK version must have been the original as they were a UK band, I still went with the one that had White Man on it as I already knew and loved that song. I listened to that album to death and to this day its one of my all-time favorite records, whatever one wants to call it.

I love the snapshot it captures. Song-wise it's very similar to the Fall '77 setlists, where they're still wielding the raw power of the debut album material while really branching out with the new singles. It's a perfect storm, capturing the peak of their repertoire right before they ebbed a bit with the GEER material, which was overall less visceral than the debut songs and less experimental than the singles that preceded it. Just in my opinion, of course!
Your opinion is correct of course and it's a fantastic listen. But you simply can't have "I Fought the Law" on the debut hence it will always be a compilation. Why in 1979 the US label felt "Deny" "Cheat" "48 Hours" and "Protex Blue" were not fit for US punk ears is beyond me.
Loads of rougher sounding punk rock released by then. The truth has to be they knew a compilation would sell way more. But why make fans pay for expensive imports when they could've just as easy released it and a second comp of A's and B's.
Yeah IFTL is the anomaly.

As to those for songs that were dropped for the US version, I'm not so sure it was the label that chose to drop them and not the band itself. That's the question I asked upthread. TeddyB confirmed the band sequenced the US version, so it would seem to be a soft assumption that they also decided on which songs to drop from the debut and which newer singles/b-sides to add.

My guess is the band was just excited about the new material so they decided to cut a few of the relatively weaker songs from the debut (and which they had already dropped from their setlists) to make room for the new stuff.

Marky Dread
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Re: Sequencing of US Debut

Post by Marky Dread »

msza2 wrote:
06 Oct 2022, 3:30pm
Marky Dread wrote:
03 Oct 2022, 3:00pm
msza2 wrote:
03 Oct 2022, 9:41am
Marky Dread wrote:
03 Oct 2022, 4:22am
msza2 wrote:
01 Oct 2022, 10:46am


I'm listening to the US s/t this morning and went hunting for this thread.

We've solved the sequencing question but I'm curious Teddy if you or anyone else may know the circumstances behind track selection of the US version. Did the band also have "complete control" over which songs were dropped from the original and which singles were added?

If so then it seems to imply that they weren't in favor of releasing it in the States in it's original configuration. At first that seems a bit surprising as the most famous example of reconfigured US versions of UK albums comes from the Beatles's early catalogue and they supposedly hated that the original albums were altered for the US.

I can see a scenario, though, in which the label tells the Clash that they have finally come to their senses and decided to release the debut in the States, and then the band, in keeping with their value-for-money ethos, says, "well a lot of people have bought it as an import already so we'll add some newer material." Then again they could have just preferred the newer songs and/or dropped the songs from the album that they had already dropped from their live repertoire.

But then it makes me wonder why they wouldn't have thrown on other songs like the Prison, City of the Dead, and Capital Radio. So many questions!
The important thing to remember is it's not a debut album it's a compilation. In my opinion this album should've had a different title and packaging.
Yeah, I think that's a fair assessment, though I'd argue that distinction is baked into the UK/US terminology.

I remember standing in the record store holding the UK album in one hand and the US edition in the other and trying to decide which to buy. Even though I could intuit that the UK version must have been the original as they were a UK band, I still went with the one that had White Man on it as I already knew and loved that song. I listened to that album to death and to this day its one of my all-time favorite records, whatever one wants to call it.

I love the snapshot it captures. Song-wise it's very similar to the Fall '77 setlists, where they're still wielding the raw power of the debut album material while really branching out with the new singles. It's a perfect storm, capturing the peak of their repertoire right before they ebbed a bit with the GEER material, which was overall less visceral than the debut songs and less experimental than the singles that preceded it. Just in my opinion, of course!
Your opinion is correct of course and it's a fantastic listen. But you simply can't have "I Fought the Law" on the debut hence it will always be a compilation. Why in 1979 the US label felt "Deny" "Cheat" "48 Hours" and "Protex Blue" were not fit for US punk ears is beyond me.
Loads of rougher sounding punk rock released by then. The truth has to be they knew a compilation would sell way more. But why make fans pay for expensive imports when they could've just as easy released it and a second comp of A's and B's.
Yeah IFTL is the anomaly.

As to those for songs that were dropped for the US version, I'm not so sure it was the label that chose to drop them and not the band itself. That's the question I asked upthread. TeddyB confirmed the band sequenced the US version, so it would seem to be a soft assumption that they also decided on which songs to drop from the debut and which newer singles/b-sides to add.

My guess is the band was just excited about the new material so they decided to cut a few of the relatively weaker songs from the debut (and which they had already dropped from their setlists) to make room for the new stuff.
I reckon it was the label who didn't want the debut as it sounded rough compared to what was being pumped out in 1979. So a compromise was reached with the compilation idea.
Why would the band not want their official debut album released. Remember "Give 'Em Enough Rope" had already been released and it sounds nothing like the debut. Mickey Foote with Simon Humphries produced the debut compare that with Sandy Pearlman's production on GEER they are worlds apart.
Image

Forces have been looting
My humanity
Curfews have been curbing
The end of liberty


We're the flowers in the dustbin...
No fuchsias for you.

"Without the common people you're nothing"

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