If and only if i wonder what you would think

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Dr. Medulla
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Re: If and only if i wonder what you would think

Post by Dr. Medulla »

Marky Dread wrote:
21 Apr 2022, 4:21pm
weller259 wrote:
21 Apr 2022, 3:13pm
The Clash were/are so vital to my musical life, they hold a very important and necessary spot in my musical world and as such, I am glad there is no "reuniting" (as such could be done without Joe) or anything. If Mick suddenly decided he wanted to do something of that nature, I would certainly give it some deep thought, not sure if Paul doing it would elicit the same response from me, hell i'm still not sure how many or what records/songs he actually did play on, to me its Mick who would/could change my opinion on any "reforming". Big Audio Dynamite was and still is very important to me musically too and while some may really like the current-day Who and the fact that after all these years they are still out there doing their thing, I am glad that the Clash didn't do it. Cut The Crap was a valiant effort but ultimately it failed horribly and I am content to let that be the post-Mick legacy of the Clash. Having been fortunate to see them at Bonds (which seems like a lifetime ago now) in their prime and experienced the excitement and electricity of their live performances, while more of a great thing is always desired, anything now that wasn't of that time (to me anyways) would just feel like a giant let-down. Personally I would have no problem with Paul or Mick or even Topper doing a tribute type thing but without at the very least Mick being involved I would not consider attending. Celebrating their music and legacy with the records and recordings of live shows is good enough for me.

Edits were made to clean up bad grammar and to clarify some thoughts. I need a proofreader and an editor, lol.
While The Clash has to remain where it is the idea of Mick, Paul and Topper working together on a totally different project would still thrill me.
I'd have no problem if they did a Threetles thing and record an unheard demo of Joe's. Even better if it was done for a particular cause, one that resonated with the spirit of the group.
"I never doubted myself for a minute for I knew that my monkey-strong bowels were girded with strength, like the loins of a dragon ribboned with fat and the opulence of buffalo dung." - Richard Nixon, Checkers Speech, abandoned early draft

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Re: If and only if i wonder what you would think

Post by weller259 »

Marky Dread wrote:
21 Apr 2022, 4:21pm
weller259 wrote:
21 Apr 2022, 3:13pm
The Clash were/are so vital to my musical life, they hold a very important and necessary spot in my musical world and as such, I am glad there is no "reuniting" (as such could be done without Joe) or anything. If Mick suddenly decided he wanted to do something of that nature, I would certainly give it some deep thought, not sure if Paul doing it would elicit the same response from me, hell i'm still not sure how many or what records/songs he actually did play on, to me its Mick who would/could change my opinion on any "reforming". Big Audio Dynamite was and still is very important to me musically too and while some may really like the current-day Who and the fact that after all these years they are still out there doing their thing, I am glad that the Clash didn't do it. Cut The Crap was a valiant effort but ultimately it failed horribly and I am content to let that be the post-Mick legacy of the Clash. Having been fortunate to see them at Bonds (which seems like a lifetime ago now) in their prime and experienced the excitement and electricity of their live performances, while more of a great thing is always desired, anything now that wasn't of that time (to me anyways) would just feel like a giant let-down. Personally I would have no problem with Paul or Mick or even Topper doing a tribute type thing but without at the very least Mick being involved I would not consider attending. Celebrating their music and legacy with the records and recordings of live shows is good enough for me.

Edits were made to clean up bad grammar and to clarify some thoughts. I need a proofreader and an editor, lol.
While The Clash has to remain where it is the idea of Mick, Paul and Topper working together on a totally different project would still thrill me.
Yes sir I agree, if the 3 of them were to do stuff together I would certainly be interested.
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Re: If and only if i wonder what you would think

Post by Marky Dread »

Dr. Medulla wrote:
21 Apr 2022, 4:28pm
Marky Dread wrote:
21 Apr 2022, 4:21pm
weller259 wrote:
21 Apr 2022, 3:13pm
The Clash were/are so vital to my musical life, they hold a very important and necessary spot in my musical world and as such, I am glad there is no "reuniting" (as such could be done without Joe) or anything. If Mick suddenly decided he wanted to do something of that nature, I would certainly give it some deep thought, not sure if Paul doing it would elicit the same response from me, hell i'm still not sure how many or what records/songs he actually did play on, to me its Mick who would/could change my opinion on any "reforming". Big Audio Dynamite was and still is very important to me musically too and while some may really like the current-day Who and the fact that after all these years they are still out there doing their thing, I am glad that the Clash didn't do it. Cut The Crap was a valiant effort but ultimately it failed horribly and I am content to let that be the post-Mick legacy of the Clash. Having been fortunate to see them at Bonds (which seems like a lifetime ago now) in their prime and experienced the excitement and electricity of their live performances, while more of a great thing is always desired, anything now that wasn't of that time (to me anyways) would just feel like a giant let-down. Personally I would have no problem with Paul or Mick or even Topper doing a tribute type thing but without at the very least Mick being involved I would not consider attending. Celebrating their music and legacy with the records and recordings of live shows is good enough for me.

Edits were made to clean up bad grammar and to clarify some thoughts. I need a proofreader and an editor, lol.
While The Clash has to remain where it is the idea of Mick, Paul and Topper working together on a totally different project would still thrill me.
I'd have no problem if they did a Threetles thing and record an unheard demo of Joe's. Even better if it was done for a particular cause, one that resonated with the spirit of the group.
I wouldn't want them to do that and I don't think they would either. But a brand new project that looks forward not backwards.
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Forces have been looting
My humanity
Curfews have been curbing
The end of liberty


We're the flowers in the dustbin...
No fuchsias for you.

"Without the common people you're nothing"

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Re: If and only if i wonder what you would think

Post by Dr. Medulla »

Marky Dread wrote:
21 Apr 2022, 4:39pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
21 Apr 2022, 4:28pm
Marky Dread wrote:
21 Apr 2022, 4:21pm
weller259 wrote:
21 Apr 2022, 3:13pm
The Clash were/are so vital to my musical life, they hold a very important and necessary spot in my musical world and as such, I am glad there is no "reuniting" (as such could be done without Joe) or anything. If Mick suddenly decided he wanted to do something of that nature, I would certainly give it some deep thought, not sure if Paul doing it would elicit the same response from me, hell i'm still not sure how many or what records/songs he actually did play on, to me its Mick who would/could change my opinion on any "reforming". Big Audio Dynamite was and still is very important to me musically too and while some may really like the current-day Who and the fact that after all these years they are still out there doing their thing, I am glad that the Clash didn't do it. Cut The Crap was a valiant effort but ultimately it failed horribly and I am content to let that be the post-Mick legacy of the Clash. Having been fortunate to see them at Bonds (which seems like a lifetime ago now) in their prime and experienced the excitement and electricity of their live performances, while more of a great thing is always desired, anything now that wasn't of that time (to me anyways) would just feel like a giant let-down. Personally I would have no problem with Paul or Mick or even Topper doing a tribute type thing but without at the very least Mick being involved I would not consider attending. Celebrating their music and legacy with the records and recordings of live shows is good enough for me.

Edits were made to clean up bad grammar and to clarify some thoughts. I need a proofreader and an editor, lol.
While The Clash has to remain where it is the idea of Mick, Paul and Topper working together on a totally different project would still thrill me.
I'd have no problem if they did a Threetles thing and record an unheard demo of Joe's. Even better if it was done for a particular cause, one that resonated with the spirit of the group.
I wouldn't want them to do that and I don't think they would either. But a brand new project that looks forward not backwards.
No, I can't see them doing a song with Ghost Joe either, but I wouldn't be repelled by it if it happened.
"I never doubted myself for a minute for I knew that my monkey-strong bowels were girded with strength, like the loins of a dragon ribboned with fat and the opulence of buffalo dung." - Richard Nixon, Checkers Speech, abandoned early draft

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Re: If and only if i wonder what you would think

Post by Heston »

Dr. Medulla wrote:
21 Apr 2022, 4:28pm
Marky Dread wrote:
21 Apr 2022, 4:21pm
weller259 wrote:
21 Apr 2022, 3:13pm
The Clash were/are so vital to my musical life, they hold a very important and necessary spot in my musical world and as such, I am glad there is no "reuniting" (as such could be done without Joe) or anything. If Mick suddenly decided he wanted to do something of that nature, I would certainly give it some deep thought, not sure if Paul doing it would elicit the same response from me, hell i'm still not sure how many or what records/songs he actually did play on, to me its Mick who would/could change my opinion on any "reforming". Big Audio Dynamite was and still is very important to me musically too and while some may really like the current-day Who and the fact that after all these years they are still out there doing their thing, I am glad that the Clash didn't do it. Cut The Crap was a valiant effort but ultimately it failed horribly and I am content to let that be the post-Mick legacy of the Clash. Having been fortunate to see them at Bonds (which seems like a lifetime ago now) in their prime and experienced the excitement and electricity of their live performances, while more of a great thing is always desired, anything now that wasn't of that time (to me anyways) would just feel like a giant let-down. Personally I would have no problem with Paul or Mick or even Topper doing a tribute type thing but without at the very least Mick being involved I would not consider attending. Celebrating their music and legacy with the records and recordings of live shows is good enough for me.

Edits were made to clean up bad grammar and to clarify some thoughts. I need a proofreader and an editor, lol.
While The Clash has to remain where it is the idea of Mick, Paul and Topper working together on a totally different project would still thrill me.
I'd have no problem if they did a Threetles thing and record an unheard demo of Joe's. Even better if it was done for a particular cause, one that resonated with the spirit of the group.
They had the chance with Czechoslovak Song from 001 to do something like this. Mick could have stuck some guitar and backing vocals on it.
There's a tiny, tiny hopeful part of me that says you guys are running a Kaufmanesque long con on the board

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Re: If and only if i wonder what you would think

Post by matedog »

Heston wrote:
21 Apr 2022, 11:21pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
21 Apr 2022, 4:28pm
Marky Dread wrote:
21 Apr 2022, 4:21pm
weller259 wrote:
21 Apr 2022, 3:13pm
The Clash were/are so vital to my musical life, they hold a very important and necessary spot in my musical world and as such, I am glad there is no "reuniting" (as such could be done without Joe) or anything. If Mick suddenly decided he wanted to do something of that nature, I would certainly give it some deep thought, not sure if Paul doing it would elicit the same response from me, hell i'm still not sure how many or what records/songs he actually did play on, to me its Mick who would/could change my opinion on any "reforming". Big Audio Dynamite was and still is very important to me musically too and while some may really like the current-day Who and the fact that after all these years they are still out there doing their thing, I am glad that the Clash didn't do it. Cut The Crap was a valiant effort but ultimately it failed horribly and I am content to let that be the post-Mick legacy of the Clash. Having been fortunate to see them at Bonds (which seems like a lifetime ago now) in their prime and experienced the excitement and electricity of their live performances, while more of a great thing is always desired, anything now that wasn't of that time (to me anyways) would just feel like a giant let-down. Personally I would have no problem with Paul or Mick or even Topper doing a tribute type thing but without at the very least Mick being involved I would not consider attending. Celebrating their music and legacy with the records and recordings of live shows is good enough for me.

Edits were made to clean up bad grammar and to clarify some thoughts. I need a proofreader and an editor, lol.
While The Clash has to remain where it is the idea of Mick, Paul and Topper working together on a totally different project would still thrill me.
I'd have no problem if they did a Threetles thing and record an unheard demo of Joe's. Even better if it was done for a particular cause, one that resonated with the spirit of the group.
They had the chance with Czechoslovak Song from 001 to do something like this. Mick could have stuck some guitar and backing vocals on it.
Eh? That’s just an early This Is England. I can’t imagine they’d basically redo a CTC track.
Look, you have to establish context for these things. And I maintain that unless you appreciate the Fall of Constantinople, the Great Fire of London, and Mickey Mantle's fatalist alcoholism, live Freddy makes no sense. If you want to half-ass it, fine, go call Simon Schama to do the appendix.

Heston
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Re: If and only if i wonder what you would think

Post by Heston »

matedog wrote:
22 Apr 2022, 12:44am
Heston wrote:
21 Apr 2022, 11:21pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
21 Apr 2022, 4:28pm
Marky Dread wrote:
21 Apr 2022, 4:21pm
weller259 wrote:
21 Apr 2022, 3:13pm
The Clash were/are so vital to my musical life, they hold a very important and necessary spot in my musical world and as such, I am glad there is no "reuniting" (as such could be done without Joe) or anything. If Mick suddenly decided he wanted to do something of that nature, I would certainly give it some deep thought, not sure if Paul doing it would elicit the same response from me, hell i'm still not sure how many or what records/songs he actually did play on, to me its Mick who would/could change my opinion on any "reforming". Big Audio Dynamite was and still is very important to me musically too and while some may really like the current-day Who and the fact that after all these years they are still out there doing their thing, I am glad that the Clash didn't do it. Cut The Crap was a valiant effort but ultimately it failed horribly and I am content to let that be the post-Mick legacy of the Clash. Having been fortunate to see them at Bonds (which seems like a lifetime ago now) in their prime and experienced the excitement and electricity of their live performances, while more of a great thing is always desired, anything now that wasn't of that time (to me anyways) would just feel like a giant let-down. Personally I would have no problem with Paul or Mick or even Topper doing a tribute type thing but without at the very least Mick being involved I would not consider attending. Celebrating their music and legacy with the records and recordings of live shows is good enough for me.

Edits were made to clean up bad grammar and to clarify some thoughts. I need a proofreader and an editor, lol.
While The Clash has to remain where it is the idea of Mick, Paul and Topper working together on a totally different project would still thrill me.
I'd have no problem if they did a Threetles thing and record an unheard demo of Joe's. Even better if it was done for a particular cause, one that resonated with the spirit of the group.
They had the chance with Czechoslovak Song from 001 to do something like this. Mick could have stuck some guitar and backing vocals on it.
Eh? That’s just an early This Is England. I can’t imagine they’d basically redo a CTC track.
It's Strummer, Simonon and Howard. And if I'm not mistaken Mick was in the band when it was recorded. He would have just been getting his parts down 30 years later.
There's a tiny, tiny hopeful part of me that says you guys are running a Kaufmanesque long con on the board

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Re: If and only if i wonder what you would think

Post by white man »

Probably the best comparison going

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Re: If and only if i wonder what you would think

Post by Marky Dread »

Heston wrote:
22 Apr 2022, 3:41am
matedog wrote:
22 Apr 2022, 12:44am
Heston wrote:
21 Apr 2022, 11:21pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
21 Apr 2022, 4:28pm
Marky Dread wrote:
21 Apr 2022, 4:21pm


While The Clash has to remain where it is the idea of Mick, Paul and Topper working together on a totally different project would still thrill me.
I'd have no problem if they did a Threetles thing and record an unheard demo of Joe's. Even better if it was done for a particular cause, one that resonated with the spirit of the group.
They had the chance with Czechoslovak Song from 001 to do something like this. Mick could have stuck some guitar and backing vocals on it.
Eh? That’s just an early This Is England. I can’t imagine they’d basically redo a CTC track.
It's Strummer, Simonon and Howard. And if I'm not mistaken Mick was in the band when it was recorded. He would have just been getting his parts down 30 years later.
There must've been a very good reason why Mick doesn't play on it. ;)
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Forces have been looting
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No fuchsias for you.

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Re: If and only if i wonder what you would think

Post by Marky Dread »

white man wrote:
22 Apr 2022, 7:51am
Probably the best comparison going
They play those songs great. Never going to be as great as being young and seeing The Jam in their heyday. Yet still a fantastic show to see. Plus they have Paul's blessing.
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Forces have been looting
My humanity
Curfews have been curbing
The end of liberty


We're the flowers in the dustbin...
No fuchsias for you.

"Without the common people you're nothing"

Nos Sumus Una Familia

Heston
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Re: If and only if i wonder what you would think

Post by Heston »

Marky Dread wrote:
22 Apr 2022, 7:59am
white man wrote:
22 Apr 2022, 7:51am
Probably the best comparison going
They play those songs great. Never going to be as great as being young and seeing The Jam in their heyday. Yet still a fantastic show to see. Plus they have Paul's blessing.
I've seen them three times (on the same bill two of them) and they are fantastic. I'd rather see them than Weller.
There's a tiny, tiny hopeful part of me that says you guys are running a Kaufmanesque long con on the board

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Re: If and only if i wonder what you would think

Post by Marky Dread »

Heston wrote:
22 Apr 2022, 8:42am
Marky Dread wrote:
22 Apr 2022, 7:59am
white man wrote:
22 Apr 2022, 7:51am
Probably the best comparison going
They play those songs great. Never going to be as great as being young and seeing The Jam in their heyday. Yet still a fantastic show to see. Plus they have Paul's blessing.
I've seen them three times (on the same bill two of them) and they are fantastic. I'd rather see them than Weller.
Same here. But I saw The Jam a dozen times so whilst you can't beat those memories these guys are doing a great job. I've seen FTJ a couple of times and I was amazed at the energy of Bruce. Have the live cd and the dvd "First Class Return". Great songs don't lose their magic.
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Forces have been looting
My humanity
Curfews have been curbing
The end of liberty


We're the flowers in the dustbin...
No fuchsias for you.

"Without the common people you're nothing"

Nos Sumus Una Familia

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Re: If and only if i wonder what you would think

Post by white man »

Marky Dread wrote:
22 Apr 2022, 9:10am
Heston wrote:
22 Apr 2022, 8:42am
Marky Dread wrote:
22 Apr 2022, 7:59am
white man wrote:
22 Apr 2022, 7:51am
Probably the best comparison going
They play those songs great. Never going to be as great as being young and seeing The Jam in their heyday. Yet still a fantastic show to see. Plus they have Paul's blessing.
I've seen them three times (on the same bill two of them) and they are fantastic. I'd rather see them than Weller.
Same here. But I saw The Jam a dozen times so whilst you can't beat those memories these guys are doing a great job. I've seen FTJ a couple of times and I was amazed at the energy of Bruce. Have the live cd and the dvd "First Class Return". Great songs don't lose their magic.
They also do loads of songs The Jam never, or rarely done live

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Re: If and only if i wonder what you would think

Post by NoMoreHugh »

Marky Dread wrote:
21 Apr 2022, 9:23am
NoMoreHugh wrote:
21 Apr 2022, 8:08am
Marky Dread wrote:
20 Apr 2022, 1:19pm
NoMoreHugh wrote:
20 Apr 2022, 12:03pm
Marky Dread wrote:
20 Apr 2022, 6:40am


The thing is Hugh you are talking about putting a band back together when that band hasn't been around for 37 years.

The Stranglers on the other hand have continued and evolved with new members. With Baz Warne being a Strangler longer than Hugh Cornwell being part of the live set-up since 2001. The recent Stranglers album is excellent. So for me I'm more than happy if new members come in and are making great new music in the tradition of the original group.

With The Clash if Cut the Crap had been a solid rock n roll record then things would be viewed much differently. But it wasn't it was a failed attempt at being modern. You can argue about Bernie's input and drum machines, sequencers and so on. But If I had been in The Clash at that point and I'm really talking about Joe here then I would have said fuck off Bernie I'm not putting that out under The Clash name.
Lets forget about the stranglers (maybe another day on another thread :) ) but I am pretty sure this is all about how attached and how close you are to the band. I asked this question specifically here as I wanted an expert ideas and opinions and you cant get better than this website over the topic of the clash and that’s compared to any band website I would say.

I have no doubt at all and make no mistake that if Paul had carried the clash on himself and had competent song writers for a new album and used those Havana 3am gigs to fill up the track listings with the very best and popular clash songs he would have become successful or at least created longevity for his band. Thank god he didn’t is all I can say and you can tip your hat and salute him for that. I know he did GOB live but he had every right to do that he wrote and sung it.


All the band know of the importance and total respect for the clash legacy, the clash songs, the clash fans and the other band members. If you bring in other elements into the band you change what that band represents and in to something different and you dilute that amazing legacy and history by adding inferior work.
The guys today would know if they reformed with out obviously Joe it would be worth millions to them all, but they don’t, not just in respect for Joe but for respect to the whole clash legacy. I am sure if they didn’t have that respect the reformation would have happened by now.

I asked the forum as I know the people here would care about the clash music and how it would be represented and its something that clash fans have not experienced so I was interested in the opinions

In these current times there is a vast amount of people that would go to clash gigs think of themselves as fans that wouldn’t even be able to tell you the name of the drummer. They may even get the names of Joe and Mick mixed up because they have seen Mick sing SISOSIG
What I am saying they love those songs and even if they would be aware that Joe is no longer the lead singer their attitude would be meh so what they did a fantastic version of Rock the casbah.

For me the clash music goes well beyond being just music and something that another singer could replace their legacy is a masterpiece of the highest order. With all the original members the songs can lift the hairs on the back of my neck and make me well up with emotion.

So the importance of people being that close is the same as this analogy. A great photogragher can take a masterpiece painting take a HD photo of it blow it up. Clean the blemishes and faults and make that picture look better than ever. Gold frame it with glass and put it on the wall of an art museum. He might then claim it to be better or at least as good as the original and someone like me wouldn’t care if it’s the real thing or not and enjoy it for the painting that it isn’t. But an expert Art collector would be horrified to see people enjoy it and claim it be as good.

At the end of the day the clash were always the real deal and there music should be left that way as well. What is really great is what they said - is what they did with no bull shit

The reason that this is mentioned is because it’s a very real possibility that it could have happened so many bands have and are doing this just as Inder mentioned its why its an interesting topic because we are all so lucky it didn’t happen that way for the clash. The great money spinner that this creates is the motivation for other bands don’t believe otherwise so its really a great feeling to see the clash camp stand separate from all that.

My thoughts on my own question is this. I could accept Mick and Joe as the banner of the clash and Joe on his own at a stretch but a definate no for Mick , Paul or topper on their own.


What Joe did with his solo projects regarding the clash songs was fine and respectful with integrity intact imo.
That’s just my opinion and I know shit compared to you Marky and the majority of this site.

But thank you to everyone for replying and especially to all the humour that made me laugh.
I won't argue with any of your views on this subject as it's personal to how you feel.

But I will say that unlike many other bands where members left (Hugh as example) or died (Pete Shelley). Mick Jones was fired and had he not been kicked out of his own band I could see The Clash continuing in the same way as The Who. They were definitely heading in the direction of bands like U2.

Without Mick they just didn't have the same spark that made The Clash so great. It's no put down on the new members as they were big shoes to fill. Not necessarily musically as such because lots of musicians are very good/competent at playing stuff but as an arranger Mick was on another level. Which is proven when you listen to CtC that despite the rubbish production and Bernie's input some tracks were decent. However Mick would made those songs great.

As to one existing band member carrying on with "The Clash" in name with three new members starting today then no that would be stupid.

But if CtC had been better produced then there is no reason to see why The Clash couldn't of continued producing further records.

Part of me hates Joe and Paul for dumping Mick but the same could be said for Topper. Maybe Topper could've cleaned up and the band taken a break.

But on the other hand we got a great new band in Big Audio Dynamite and The Clash didn't turn into The Who.

Sorry for some reason i missed this
Youre always welcome to argue or put forward opinions to me mate anytime i wouldn't take it personally or be offended (that's not to say its an open opportunity for everyone to go open season on me :shifty: ) But if you think i am wrong regarding the stranglers (which i am not :) ) and i have got anything wrong regarding the stranglers (which i haven't :) ) then by all means let me know. Even though i don't agree with you at all its interesting to see your side and your opinions.
The clash subject however i am a numpty i just know what i have experienced as a youngster

I took the Stranglers topic away from the other thread as i wanted to genuinely see this scenario as a clash point of view and i have to say i was really satisfied to get the responses that i thought was right.
But as we have always known you and I are totally unmoveable in our opinions regarding the Stranglers and we both know neither of us would budge an inch :mrgreen: and i would be disappointed if we both did.

You took The Stranglers out of the equation. I thought the reason you were posing the question regards a version of The Clash reforming was because you dislike the idea of The Stranglers continuing with just one original member and were asking how Clash fans would feel if the same had happened to The Clash. Maybe I was reading too much into your first post.

I like all versions of The Stranglers obviously the Hugh years are best but the current Baz version are a solid group. Play those songs really great way better than Hugh plays them these days and I've been to shows by both. And the newer stuff has been an excellent continuation of the band. It's sad that Jet had to retire and even sadder that we lost Dave to this fucking awful covid crap. I liked Hugh's album "Monster" but it's not in the same league as the recent Stranglers albums for me.

Hugh seems really bitter in interviews saying stuff like why do they carry on? Well you chose to leave Hugh and there were 4 Stranglers not 1.

Of course none of this will change your mind and why should it. It's all down to choice. So no you're not wrong but then nor am I. ;)

Peace, love & eternal men in black. :mrgreen:
Yes i realised that that's why i though i better mention it.
But the thread has taken a fresh new route so i will add some more :)

What do you mean 😊 Hugh’s has always been bitter. The thing is whenever the stranglers were asked “How long do you think the stranglers can go on for?” the unison answer especially from JJ /Hugh was always until one of us leaves or dies its quite an ironic sadness and a turned out prophecy now.
You have to be very careful with JJ he’s very good at manipulating the truth to make himself look good and often changes his story to suit. Hugh gets fed up of being asked about the stranglers and has said its great the band are continuing as he benefits in royalties and allows him to continue and if they didn’t he would have no solo career. The disappointment from him is definitely towards the individuals themselves and the dishonesty that they keep.
Hugh left because the band had gone as far as they could.

Your argument of Baz would be valid if he brought songs like No More Heroes , Golden Brown , Down in the sewer just to name the tip of the ice berg, to the table but he cant. Its usually the way that fill-in singers for bands know there limitations and know they are never going to amount to anything in their own right so will always willingly piggy back on the success and merits of other successful artists without the hard work or bringing anything of the same quality to the table.
Baz limitations as a front man to a band so big are very apparent as was Pauls. Baz I understand is a great guitarist but its where he should have stayed. All their albums since Hugh left have been awful and some isolated tracks have got me excited when they start the first few bars and I think wow there is something here but they always wander off to nothingness and I find my eyes glazing over by the middle of the song. This is a sign of lack of ideas. The latest album is the best so far but still very average and the vocals are uninteresting and appalling and that’s including JJ. Sorry but I really cringe at Baz when he growls and snarls trying to be like Hugh it just doesn’t work, it’s so animated it doesn’t come across as real or convincing.
Hugh has not been in the band for 32 years and the stranglers are still playing over 70% of Hugh era songs live and not a single greatest hits album released with the non-Hugh material anywhere. If they didn’t play Hugh songs no one would go to the gigs

I will call them the MeninBlack when they have proven and earned that title.

Marky Dread
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Re: If and only if i wonder what you would think

Post by Marky Dread »

NoMoreHugh wrote:
23 Apr 2022, 8:30am
Marky Dread wrote:
21 Apr 2022, 9:23am
NoMoreHugh wrote:
21 Apr 2022, 8:08am
Marky Dread wrote:
20 Apr 2022, 1:19pm
NoMoreHugh wrote:
20 Apr 2022, 12:03pm


Lets forget about the stranglers (maybe another day on another thread :) ) but I am pretty sure this is all about how attached and how close you are to the band. I asked this question specifically here as I wanted an expert ideas and opinions and you cant get better than this website over the topic of the clash and that’s compared to any band website I would say.

I have no doubt at all and make no mistake that if Paul had carried the clash on himself and had competent song writers for a new album and used those Havana 3am gigs to fill up the track listings with the very best and popular clash songs he would have become successful or at least created longevity for his band. Thank god he didn’t is all I can say and you can tip your hat and salute him for that. I know he did GOB live but he had every right to do that he wrote and sung it.


All the band know of the importance and total respect for the clash legacy, the clash songs, the clash fans and the other band members. If you bring in other elements into the band you change what that band represents and in to something different and you dilute that amazing legacy and history by adding inferior work.
The guys today would know if they reformed with out obviously Joe it would be worth millions to them all, but they don’t, not just in respect for Joe but for respect to the whole clash legacy. I am sure if they didn’t have that respect the reformation would have happened by now.

I asked the forum as I know the people here would care about the clash music and how it would be represented and its something that clash fans have not experienced so I was interested in the opinions

In these current times there is a vast amount of people that would go to clash gigs think of themselves as fans that wouldn’t even be able to tell you the name of the drummer. They may even get the names of Joe and Mick mixed up because they have seen Mick sing SISOSIG
What I am saying they love those songs and even if they would be aware that Joe is no longer the lead singer their attitude would be meh so what they did a fantastic version of Rock the casbah.

For me the clash music goes well beyond being just music and something that another singer could replace their legacy is a masterpiece of the highest order. With all the original members the songs can lift the hairs on the back of my neck and make me well up with emotion.

So the importance of people being that close is the same as this analogy. A great photogragher can take a masterpiece painting take a HD photo of it blow it up. Clean the blemishes and faults and make that picture look better than ever. Gold frame it with glass and put it on the wall of an art museum. He might then claim it to be better or at least as good as the original and someone like me wouldn’t care if it’s the real thing or not and enjoy it for the painting that it isn’t. But an expert Art collector would be horrified to see people enjoy it and claim it be as good.

At the end of the day the clash were always the real deal and there music should be left that way as well. What is really great is what they said - is what they did with no bull shit

The reason that this is mentioned is because it’s a very real possibility that it could have happened so many bands have and are doing this just as Inder mentioned its why its an interesting topic because we are all so lucky it didn’t happen that way for the clash. The great money spinner that this creates is the motivation for other bands don’t believe otherwise so its really a great feeling to see the clash camp stand separate from all that.

My thoughts on my own question is this. I could accept Mick and Joe as the banner of the clash and Joe on his own at a stretch but a definate no for Mick , Paul or topper on their own.


What Joe did with his solo projects regarding the clash songs was fine and respectful with integrity intact imo.
That’s just my opinion and I know shit compared to you Marky and the majority of this site.

But thank you to everyone for replying and especially to all the humour that made me laugh.
I won't argue with any of your views on this subject as it's personal to how you feel.

But I will say that unlike many other bands where members left (Hugh as example) or died (Pete Shelley). Mick Jones was fired and had he not been kicked out of his own band I could see The Clash continuing in the same way as The Who. They were definitely heading in the direction of bands like U2.

Without Mick they just didn't have the same spark that made The Clash so great. It's no put down on the new members as they were big shoes to fill. Not necessarily musically as such because lots of musicians are very good/competent at playing stuff but as an arranger Mick was on another level. Which is proven when you listen to CtC that despite the rubbish production and Bernie's input some tracks were decent. However Mick would made those songs great.

As to one existing band member carrying on with "The Clash" in name with three new members starting today then no that would be stupid.

But if CtC had been better produced then there is no reason to see why The Clash couldn't of continued producing further records.

Part of me hates Joe and Paul for dumping Mick but the same could be said for Topper. Maybe Topper could've cleaned up and the band taken a break.

But on the other hand we got a great new band in Big Audio Dynamite and The Clash didn't turn into The Who.

Sorry for some reason i missed this
Youre always welcome to argue or put forward opinions to me mate anytime i wouldn't take it personally or be offended (that's not to say its an open opportunity for everyone to go open season on me :shifty: ) But if you think i am wrong regarding the stranglers (which i am not :) ) and i have got anything wrong regarding the stranglers (which i haven't :) ) then by all means let me know. Even though i don't agree with you at all its interesting to see your side and your opinions.
The clash subject however i am a numpty i just know what i have experienced as a youngster

I took the Stranglers topic away from the other thread as i wanted to genuinely see this scenario as a clash point of view and i have to say i was really satisfied to get the responses that i thought was right.
But as we have always known you and I are totally unmoveable in our opinions regarding the Stranglers and we both know neither of us would budge an inch :mrgreen: and i would be disappointed if we both did.

You took The Stranglers out of the equation. I thought the reason you were posing the question regards a version of The Clash reforming was because you dislike the idea of The Stranglers continuing with just one original member and were asking how Clash fans would feel if the same had happened to The Clash. Maybe I was reading too much into your first post.

I like all versions of The Stranglers obviously the Hugh years are best but the current Baz version are a solid group. Play those songs really great way better than Hugh plays them these days and I've been to shows by both. And the newer stuff has been an excellent continuation of the band. It's sad that Jet had to retire and even sadder that we lost Dave to this fucking awful covid crap. I liked Hugh's album "Monster" but it's not in the same league as the recent Stranglers albums for me.

Hugh seems really bitter in interviews saying stuff like why do they carry on? Well you chose to leave Hugh and there were 4 Stranglers not 1.

Of course none of this will change your mind and why should it. It's all down to choice. So no you're not wrong but then nor am I. ;)

Peace, love & eternal men in black. :mrgreen:
Yes i realised that that's why i though i better mention it.
But the thread has taken a fresh new route so i will add some more :)

What do you mean 😊 Hugh’s has always been bitter. The thing is whenever the stranglers were asked “How long do you think the stranglers can go on for?” the unison answer especially from JJ /Hugh was always until one of us leaves or dies its quite an ironic sadness and a turned out prophecy now.
You have to be very careful with JJ he’s very good at manipulating the truth to make himself look good and often changes his story to suit. Hugh gets fed up of being asked about the stranglers and has said its great the band are continuing as he benefits in royalties and allows him to continue and if they didn’t he would have no solo career. The disappointment from him is definitely towards the individuals themselves and the dishonesty that they keep.
Hugh left because the band had gone as far as they could.

Your argument of Baz would be valid if he brought songs like No More Heroes , Golden Brown , Down in the sewer just to name the tip of the ice berg, to the table but he cant. Its usually the way that fill-in singers for bands know there limitations and know they are never going to amount to anything in their own right so will always willingly piggy back on the success and merits of other successful artists without the hard work or bringing anything of the same quality to the table.
Baz limitations as a front man to a band so big are very apparent as was Pauls. Baz I understand is a great guitarist but its where he should have stayed. All their albums since Hugh left have been awful and some isolated tracks have got me excited when they start the first few bars and I think wow there is something here but they always wander off to nothingness and I find my eyes glazing over by the middle of the song. This is a sign of lack of ideas. The latest album is the best so far but still very average and the vocals are uninteresting and appalling and that’s including JJ. Sorry but I really cringe at Baz when he growls and snarls trying to be like Hugh it just doesn’t work, it’s so animated it doesn’t come across as real or convincing.
Hugh has not been in the band for 32 years and the stranglers are still playing over 70% of Hugh era songs live and not a single greatest hits album released with the non-Hugh material anywhere. If they didn’t play Hugh songs no one would go to the gigs

I will call them the MeninBlack when they have proven and earned that title.
"not a single greatest hits album released with the non-Hugh material anywhere".

Anywhere?

Decades Apart

Heaven or Hell
Time to Die
Sugar Bullets
Golden Boy
Lies & Deception
In Heaven She Walks
Coup de Grace
Norfolk Coast
Big Thing Coming
Long Black Veil
Unbroken
Spectre of Love
Retro Rockets

And I'll take everyone of those tracks over any from Hugh's solo records.

Yes Hugh had gone as far as he could with The Stranglers and that's cleary reflected by his solo output.
I think saying Baz hasn't produced anything as good as Hugh is harsh as neither has Hugh produced anything as good.

Hugh's solo material isn't half as good as the current Stranglers line-up. I have the majority of Hugh's solo output and I could manage one solid albums worth for a compilation at best. Would those songs had been better if they had been Stranglers songs...possibly...maybe.
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