If and only if i wonder what you would think

Clash clash clash. ¡VIVAN LOS NORTEAMERICANOS DEL IMCT Y LAS BRIGADAS DEL CADILLAC NUEVO!
NoMoreHugh
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Re: If and only if i wonder what you would think

Post by NoMoreHugh »

Marky Dread wrote:
23 Apr 2022, 9:54am
NoMoreHugh wrote:
23 Apr 2022, 8:30am
Marky Dread wrote:
21 Apr 2022, 9:23am
NoMoreHugh wrote:
21 Apr 2022, 8:08am
Marky Dread wrote:
20 Apr 2022, 1:19pm


I won't argue with any of your views on this subject as it's personal to how you feel.

But I will say that unlike many other bands where members left (Hugh as example) or died (Pete Shelley). Mick Jones was fired and had he not been kicked out of his own band I could see The Clash continuing in the same way as The Who. They were definitely heading in the direction of bands like U2.

Without Mick they just didn't have the same spark that made The Clash so great. It's no put down on the new members as they were big shoes to fill. Not necessarily musically as such because lots of musicians are very good/competent at playing stuff but as an arranger Mick was on another level. Which is proven when you listen to CtC that despite the rubbish production and Bernie's input some tracks were decent. However Mick would made those songs great.

As to one existing band member carrying on with "The Clash" in name with three new members starting today then no that would be stupid.

But if CtC had been better produced then there is no reason to see why The Clash couldn't of continued producing further records.

Part of me hates Joe and Paul for dumping Mick but the same could be said for Topper. Maybe Topper could've cleaned up and the band taken a break.

But on the other hand we got a great new band in Big Audio Dynamite and The Clash didn't turn into The Who.

Sorry for some reason i missed this
Youre always welcome to argue or put forward opinions to me mate anytime i wouldn't take it personally or be offended (that's not to say its an open opportunity for everyone to go open season on me :shifty: ) But if you think i am wrong regarding the stranglers (which i am not :) ) and i have got anything wrong regarding the stranglers (which i haven't :) ) then by all means let me know. Even though i don't agree with you at all its interesting to see your side and your opinions.
The clash subject however i am a numpty i just know what i have experienced as a youngster

I took the Stranglers topic away from the other thread as i wanted to genuinely see this scenario as a clash point of view and i have to say i was really satisfied to get the responses that i thought was right.
But as we have always known you and I are totally unmoveable in our opinions regarding the Stranglers and we both know neither of us would budge an inch :mrgreen: and i would be disappointed if we both did.

You took The Stranglers out of the equation. I thought the reason you were posing the question regards a version of The Clash reforming was because you dislike the idea of The Stranglers continuing with just one original member and were asking how Clash fans would feel if the same had happened to The Clash. Maybe I was reading too much into your first post.

I like all versions of The Stranglers obviously the Hugh years are best but the current Baz version are a solid group. Play those songs really great way better than Hugh plays them these days and I've been to shows by both. And the newer stuff has been an excellent continuation of the band. It's sad that Jet had to retire and even sadder that we lost Dave to this fucking awful covid crap. I liked Hugh's album "Monster" but it's not in the same league as the recent Stranglers albums for me.

Hugh seems really bitter in interviews saying stuff like why do they carry on? Well you chose to leave Hugh and there were 4 Stranglers not 1.

Of course none of this will change your mind and why should it. It's all down to choice. So no you're not wrong but then nor am I. ;)

Peace, love & eternal men in black. :mrgreen:
Yes i realised that that's why i though i better mention it.
But the thread has taken a fresh new route so i will add some more :)

What do you mean 😊 Hugh’s has always been bitter. The thing is whenever the stranglers were asked “How long do you think the stranglers can go on for?” the unison answer especially from JJ /Hugh was always until one of us leaves or dies its quite an ironic sadness and a turned out prophecy now.
You have to be very careful with JJ he’s very good at manipulating the truth to make himself look good and often changes his story to suit. Hugh gets fed up of being asked about the stranglers and has said its great the band are continuing as he benefits in royalties and allows him to continue and if they didn’t he would have no solo career. The disappointment from him is definitely towards the individuals themselves and the dishonesty that they keep.
Hugh left because the band had gone as far as they could.

Your argument of Baz would be valid if he brought songs like No More Heroes , Golden Brown , Down in the sewer just to name the tip of the ice berg, to the table but he cant. Its usually the way that fill-in singers for bands know there limitations and know they are never going to amount to anything in their own right so will always willingly piggy back on the success and merits of other successful artists without the hard work or bringing anything of the same quality to the table.
Baz limitations as a front man to a band so big are very apparent as was Pauls. Baz I understand is a great guitarist but its where he should have stayed. All their albums since Hugh left have been awful and some isolated tracks have got me excited when they start the first few bars and I think wow there is something here but they always wander off to nothingness and I find my eyes glazing over by the middle of the song. This is a sign of lack of ideas. The latest album is the best so far but still very average and the vocals are uninteresting and appalling and that’s including JJ. Sorry but I really cringe at Baz when he growls and snarls trying to be like Hugh it just doesn’t work, it’s so animated it doesn’t come across as real or convincing.
Hugh has not been in the band for 32 years and the stranglers are still playing over 70% of Hugh era songs live and not a single greatest hits album released with the non-Hugh material anywhere. If they didn’t play Hugh songs no one would go to the gigs

I will call them the MeninBlack when they have proven and earned that title.
"not a single greatest hits album released with the non-Hugh material anywhere".

Anywhere?

Decades Apart

Heaven or Hell
Time to Die
Sugar Bullets
Golden Boy
Lies & Deception
In Heaven She Walks
Coup de Grace
Norfolk Coast
Big Thing Coming
Long Black Veil
Unbroken
Spectre of Love
Retro Rockets

And I'll take everyone of those tracks over any from Hugh's solo records.

Yes Hugh had gone as far as he could with The Stranglers and that's cleary reflected by his solo output.
I think saying Baz hasn't produced anything as good as Hugh is harsh as neither has Hugh produced anything as good.

Hugh's solo material isn't half as good as the current Stranglers line-up. I have the majority of Hugh's solo output and I could manage one solid albums worth for a compilation at best. Would those songs had been better if they had been Stranglers songs...possibly...maybe.
They sound a totally different band now to me . But what a shame JJ lost confidence in his singing abilities and never would want to take the lead singing role.

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Re: If and only if i wonder what you would think

Post by Silent Majority »

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Marky Dread
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Re: If and only if i wonder what you would think

Post by Marky Dread »

NoMoreHugh wrote:
25 Apr 2022, 4:21pm
Marky Dread wrote:
23 Apr 2022, 9:54am
NoMoreHugh wrote:
23 Apr 2022, 8:30am
Marky Dread wrote:
21 Apr 2022, 9:23am
NoMoreHugh wrote:
21 Apr 2022, 8:08am



Sorry for some reason i missed this
Youre always welcome to argue or put forward opinions to me mate anytime i wouldn't take it personally or be offended (that's not to say its an open opportunity for everyone to go open season on me :shifty: ) But if you think i am wrong regarding the stranglers (which i am not :) ) and i have got anything wrong regarding the stranglers (which i haven't :) ) then by all means let me know. Even though i don't agree with you at all its interesting to see your side and your opinions.
The clash subject however i am a numpty i just know what i have experienced as a youngster

I took the Stranglers topic away from the other thread as i wanted to genuinely see this scenario as a clash point of view and i have to say i was really satisfied to get the responses that i thought was right.
But as we have always known you and I are totally unmoveable in our opinions regarding the Stranglers and we both know neither of us would budge an inch :mrgreen: and i would be disappointed if we both did.

You took The Stranglers out of the equation. I thought the reason you were posing the question regards a version of The Clash reforming was because you dislike the idea of The Stranglers continuing with just one original member and were asking how Clash fans would feel if the same had happened to The Clash. Maybe I was reading too much into your first post.

I like all versions of The Stranglers obviously the Hugh years are best but the current Baz version are a solid group. Play those songs really great way better than Hugh plays them these days and I've been to shows by both. And the newer stuff has been an excellent continuation of the band. It's sad that Jet had to retire and even sadder that we lost Dave to this fucking awful covid crap. I liked Hugh's album "Monster" but it's not in the same league as the recent Stranglers albums for me.

Hugh seems really bitter in interviews saying stuff like why do they carry on? Well you chose to leave Hugh and there were 4 Stranglers not 1.

Of course none of this will change your mind and why should it. It's all down to choice. So no you're not wrong but then nor am I. ;)

Peace, love & eternal men in black. :mrgreen:
Yes i realised that that's why i though i better mention it.
But the thread has taken a fresh new route so i will add some more :)

What do you mean 😊 Hugh’s has always been bitter. The thing is whenever the stranglers were asked “How long do you think the stranglers can go on for?” the unison answer especially from JJ /Hugh was always until one of us leaves or dies its quite an ironic sadness and a turned out prophecy now.
You have to be very careful with JJ he’s very good at manipulating the truth to make himself look good and often changes his story to suit. Hugh gets fed up of being asked about the stranglers and has said its great the band are continuing as he benefits in royalties and allows him to continue and if they didn’t he would have no solo career. The disappointment from him is definitely towards the individuals themselves and the dishonesty that they keep.
Hugh left because the band had gone as far as they could.

Your argument of Baz would be valid if he brought songs like No More Heroes , Golden Brown , Down in the sewer just to name the tip of the ice berg, to the table but he cant. Its usually the way that fill-in singers for bands know there limitations and know they are never going to amount to anything in their own right so will always willingly piggy back on the success and merits of other successful artists without the hard work or bringing anything of the same quality to the table.
Baz limitations as a front man to a band so big are very apparent as was Pauls. Baz I understand is a great guitarist but its where he should have stayed. All their albums since Hugh left have been awful and some isolated tracks have got me excited when they start the first few bars and I think wow there is something here but they always wander off to nothingness and I find my eyes glazing over by the middle of the song. This is a sign of lack of ideas. The latest album is the best so far but still very average and the vocals are uninteresting and appalling and that’s including JJ. Sorry but I really cringe at Baz when he growls and snarls trying to be like Hugh it just doesn’t work, it’s so animated it doesn’t come across as real or convincing.
Hugh has not been in the band for 32 years and the stranglers are still playing over 70% of Hugh era songs live and not a single greatest hits album released with the non-Hugh material anywhere. If they didn’t play Hugh songs no one would go to the gigs

I will call them the MeninBlack when they have proven and earned that title.
"not a single greatest hits album released with the non-Hugh material anywhere".

Anywhere?

Decades Apart

Heaven or Hell
Time to Die
Sugar Bullets
Golden Boy
Lies & Deception
In Heaven She Walks
Coup de Grace
Norfolk Coast
Big Thing Coming
Long Black Veil
Unbroken
Spectre of Love
Retro Rockets

And I'll take everyone of those tracks over any from Hugh's solo records.

Yes Hugh had gone as far as he could with The Stranglers and that's cleary reflected by his solo output.
I think saying Baz hasn't produced anything as good as Hugh is harsh as neither has Hugh produced anything as good.

Hugh's solo material isn't half as good as the current Stranglers line-up. I have the majority of Hugh's solo output and I could manage one solid albums worth for a compilation at best. Would those songs had been better if they had been Stranglers songs...possibly...maybe.
They sound a totally different band now to me . But what a shame JJ lost confidence in his singing abilities and never would want to take the lead singing role.
JJ does sing a a couple of numbers live. But I guess he feels more comfortable letting someone else take the lead
Image

Forces have been looting
My humanity
Curfews have been curbing
The end of liberty


We're the flowers in the dustbin...
No fuchsias for you.

"Without the common people you're nothing"

Nos Sumus Una Familia

Marky Dread
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Re: If and only if i wonder what you would think

Post by Marky Dread »

NoMoreHugh wrote:
25 Apr 2022, 4:21pm
Marky Dread wrote:
23 Apr 2022, 9:54am
NoMoreHugh wrote:
23 Apr 2022, 8:30am
Marky Dread wrote:
21 Apr 2022, 9:23am
NoMoreHugh wrote:
21 Apr 2022, 8:08am



Sorry for some reason i missed this
Youre always welcome to argue or put forward opinions to me mate anytime i wouldn't take it personally or be offended (that's not to say its an open opportunity for everyone to go open season on me :shifty: ) But if you think i am wrong regarding the stranglers (which i am not :) ) and i have got anything wrong regarding the stranglers (which i haven't :) ) then by all means let me know. Even though i don't agree with you at all its interesting to see your side and your opinions.
The clash subject however i am a numpty i just know what i have experienced as a youngster

I took the Stranglers topic away from the other thread as i wanted to genuinely see this scenario as a clash point of view and i have to say i was really satisfied to get the responses that i thought was right.
But as we have always known you and I are totally unmoveable in our opinions regarding the Stranglers and we both know neither of us would budge an inch :mrgreen: and i would be disappointed if we both did.

You took The Stranglers out of the equation. I thought the reason you were posing the question regards a version of The Clash reforming was because you dislike the idea of The Stranglers continuing with just one original member and were asking how Clash fans would feel if the same had happened to The Clash. Maybe I was reading too much into your first post.

I like all versions of The Stranglers obviously the Hugh years are best but the current Baz version are a solid group. Play those songs really great way better than Hugh plays them these days and I've been to shows by both. And the newer stuff has been an excellent continuation of the band. It's sad that Jet had to retire and even sadder that we lost Dave to this fucking awful covid crap. I liked Hugh's album "Monster" but it's not in the same league as the recent Stranglers albums for me.

Hugh seems really bitter in interviews saying stuff like why do they carry on? Well you chose to leave Hugh and there were 4 Stranglers not 1.

Of course none of this will change your mind and why should it. It's all down to choice. So no you're not wrong but then nor am I. ;)

Peace, love & eternal men in black. :mrgreen:
Yes i realised that that's why i though i better mention it.
But the thread has taken a fresh new route so i will add some more :)

What do you mean 😊 Hugh’s has always been bitter. The thing is whenever the stranglers were asked “How long do you think the stranglers can go on for?” the unison answer especially from JJ /Hugh was always until one of us leaves or dies its quite an ironic sadness and a turned out prophecy now.
You have to be very careful with JJ he’s very good at manipulating the truth to make himself look good and often changes his story to suit. Hugh gets fed up of being asked about the stranglers and has said its great the band are continuing as he benefits in royalties and allows him to continue and if they didn’t he would have no solo career. The disappointment from him is definitely towards the individuals themselves and the dishonesty that they keep.
Hugh left because the band had gone as far as they could.

Your argument of Baz would be valid if he brought songs like No More Heroes , Golden Brown , Down in the sewer just to name the tip of the ice berg, to the table but he cant. Its usually the way that fill-in singers for bands know there limitations and know they are never going to amount to anything in their own right so will always willingly piggy back on the success and merits of other successful artists without the hard work or bringing anything of the same quality to the table.
Baz limitations as a front man to a band so big are very apparent as was Pauls. Baz I understand is a great guitarist but its where he should have stayed. All their albums since Hugh left have been awful and some isolated tracks have got me excited when they start the first few bars and I think wow there is something here but they always wander off to nothingness and I find my eyes glazing over by the middle of the song. This is a sign of lack of ideas. The latest album is the best so far but still very average and the vocals are uninteresting and appalling and that’s including JJ. Sorry but I really cringe at Baz when he growls and snarls trying to be like Hugh it just doesn’t work, it’s so animated it doesn’t come across as real or convincing.
Hugh has not been in the band for 32 years and the stranglers are still playing over 70% of Hugh era songs live and not a single greatest hits album released with the non-Hugh material anywhere. If they didn’t play Hugh songs no one would go to the gigs

I will call them the MeninBlack when they have proven and earned that title.
"not a single greatest hits album released with the non-Hugh material anywhere".

Anywhere?

Decades Apart

Heaven or Hell
Time to Die
Sugar Bullets
Golden Boy
Lies & Deception
In Heaven She Walks
Coup de Grace
Norfolk Coast
Big Thing Coming
Long Black Veil
Unbroken
Spectre of Love
Retro Rockets

And I'll take everyone of those tracks over any from Hugh's solo records.

Yes Hugh had gone as far as he could with The Stranglers and that's cleary reflected by his solo output.
I think saying Baz hasn't produced anything as good as Hugh is harsh as neither has Hugh produced anything as good.

Hugh's solo material isn't half as good as the current Stranglers line-up. I have the majority of Hugh's solo output and I could manage one solid albums worth for a compilation at best. Would those songs had been better if they had been Stranglers songs...possibly...maybe.
They sound a totally different band now to me . But what a shame JJ lost confidence in his singing abilities and never would want to take the lead singing role.
JJ does sing a a couple of numbers live. But I guess he feels more comfortable letting someone else take the lead
Image

Forces have been looting
My humanity
Curfews have been curbing
The end of liberty


We're the flowers in the dustbin...
No fuchsias for you.

"Without the common people you're nothing"

Nos Sumus Una Familia

NoMoreHugh
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Re: If and only if i wonder what you would think

Post by NoMoreHugh »

Flex wrote:
19 Apr 2022, 8:28pm
Here's a super dumb thought that lodged into my brain: have Keith levene, rob harper and Paul to reform the clash with a hologram of Joe. Keith and Paul with double up on the Mick vocal parts.
This is seriously an interesting thought. How realistic is that ? Lets change to a more wanted line up of Mick ,Paul and topper

So if a hologram of Joe was used how would that work financially and vocally etc ? Would it be realistic like visually as well as the sound ?
I have read Abba are doing something similar this year i think i would be interested to see the clash like that for some perverse reason.

Flex
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Re: If and only if i wonder what you would think

Post by Flex »

NoMoreHugh wrote:
04 May 2022, 9:50am
This is seriously an interesting thought. How realistic is that ? Lets change to a more wanted line up of Mick ,Paul and topper

So if a hologram of Joe was used how would that work financially and vocally etc ? Would it be realistic like visually as well as the sound ?
I have read Abba are doing something similar this year i think i would be interested to see the clash like that for some perverse reason.
Knowing The Clash, if they actually did this they'd isolate Joe's vocals from Live at Shea to recreate that live set and then feel that required Terry to get behind the drums.
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Re: If and only if i wonder what you would think

Post by matedog »

Flex wrote:
04 May 2022, 11:16am
NoMoreHugh wrote:
04 May 2022, 9:50am
This is seriously an interesting thought. How realistic is that ? Lets change to a more wanted line up of Mick ,Paul and topper

So if a hologram of Joe was used how would that work financially and vocally etc ? Would it be realistic like visually as well as the sound ?
I have read Abba are doing something similar this year i think i would be interested to see the clash like that for some perverse reason.
Knowing The Clash, if they actually did this they'd isolate Joe's vocals from Live at Shea to recreate that live set and then feel that required Terry to get behind the drums.
That's a monkey's paw for me if ever.

"I want to see The Clash live!"
"Here you go, but there's a catch..."
*Terry sits down on the drum throne*
"Nooooooooooo!"
Look, you have to establish context for these things. And I maintain that unless you appreciate the Fall of Constantinople, the Great Fire of London, and Mickey Mantle's fatalist alcoholism, live Freddy makes no sense. If you want to half-ass it, fine, go call Simon Schama to do the appendix.

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Re: If and only if i wonder what you would think

Post by Marky Dread »

matedog wrote:
04 May 2022, 11:32am
Flex wrote:
04 May 2022, 11:16am
NoMoreHugh wrote:
04 May 2022, 9:50am
This is seriously an interesting thought. How realistic is that ? Lets change to a more wanted line up of Mick ,Paul and topper

So if a hologram of Joe was used how would that work financially and vocally etc ? Would it be realistic like visually as well as the sound ?
I have read Abba are doing something similar this year i think i would be interested to see the clash like that for some perverse reason.
Knowing The Clash, if they actually did this they'd isolate Joe's vocals from Live at Shea to recreate that live set and then feel that required Terry to get behind the drums.
That's a monkey's paw for me if ever.

"I want to see The Clash live!"
"Here you go, but there's a catch..."
*Terry sits down on the drum throne*
"Nooooooooooo!"
Matedogs' dream Clash reunion line-up.

Pablo LaBritain
Rob Harper
John Moss
Terry Chimes
:mrgreen:
Image

Forces have been looting
My humanity
Curfews have been curbing
The end of liberty


We're the flowers in the dustbin...
No fuchsias for you.

"Without the common people you're nothing"

Nos Sumus Una Familia

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Re: If and only if i wonder what you would think

Post by matedog »

Marky Dread wrote:
04 May 2022, 12:17pm
matedog wrote:
04 May 2022, 11:32am
Flex wrote:
04 May 2022, 11:16am
NoMoreHugh wrote:
04 May 2022, 9:50am
This is seriously an interesting thought. How realistic is that ? Lets change to a more wanted line up of Mick ,Paul and topper

So if a hologram of Joe was used how would that work financially and vocally etc ? Would it be realistic like visually as well as the sound ?
I have read Abba are doing something similar this year i think i would be interested to see the clash like that for some perverse reason.
Knowing The Clash, if they actually did this they'd isolate Joe's vocals from Live at Shea to recreate that live set and then feel that required Terry to get behind the drums.
That's a monkey's paw for me if ever.

"I want to see The Clash live!"
"Here you go, but there's a catch..."
*Terry sits down on the drum throne*
"Nooooooooooo!"
Matedogs' dream Clash reunion line-up.

Pablo LaBritain
Rob Harper
John Moss
Terry Chimes
:mrgreen:
Moss probably wouldn't be too bad. Maybe Pablo too.
Look, you have to establish context for these things. And I maintain that unless you appreciate the Fall of Constantinople, the Great Fire of London, and Mickey Mantle's fatalist alcoholism, live Freddy makes no sense. If you want to half-ass it, fine, go call Simon Schama to do the appendix.

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Re: If and only if i wonder what you would think

Post by Marky Dread »

matedog wrote:
04 May 2022, 3:35pm
Marky Dread wrote:
04 May 2022, 12:17pm
matedog wrote:
04 May 2022, 11:32am
Flex wrote:
04 May 2022, 11:16am
NoMoreHugh wrote:
04 May 2022, 9:50am
This is seriously an interesting thought. How realistic is that ? Lets change to a more wanted line up of Mick ,Paul and topper

So if a hologram of Joe was used how would that work financially and vocally etc ? Would it be realistic like visually as well as the sound ?
I have read Abba are doing something similar this year i think i would be interested to see the clash like that for some perverse reason.
Knowing The Clash, if they actually did this they'd isolate Joe's vocals from Live at Shea to recreate that live set and then feel that required Terry to get behind the drums.
That's a monkey's paw for me if ever.

"I want to see The Clash live!"
"Here you go, but there's a catch..."
*Terry sits down on the drum throne*
"Nooooooooooo!"
Matedogs' dream Clash reunion line-up.

Pablo LaBritain
Rob Harper
John Moss
Terry Chimes
:mrgreen:
Moss probably wouldn't be too bad. Maybe Pablo too.
Moss is on vocals and LaBritain on bass.
Image

Forces have been looting
My humanity
Curfews have been curbing
The end of liberty


We're the flowers in the dustbin...
No fuchsias for you.

"Without the common people you're nothing"

Nos Sumus Una Familia

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Re: If and only if i wonder what you would think

Post by weller259 »

For McCartney's Got Back tour that just began, they isolated John Lennon's vocal from the Get Back sessions to "Two Of Us" and play it, Paul gets to sing with John again live ... sort of.
No reason why they can't do that with the Clash if they really wanted to I would imagine.
Sign me up for seeing/hearing that if it were to happen :mrgreen:

Edit: It wasn't "Two Of Us", it was "I've Got A Feeling".
Last edited by weller259 on 04 May 2022, 11:33pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: If and only if i wonder what you would think

Post by Kory »

weller259 wrote:
04 May 2022, 4:18pm
For McCartney's Got Back tour that just began, they isolated John Lennon's vocal from the Get Back sessions to "Two Of Us" and play it, Paul gets to sing with John again live ... sort of.
No reason why they can't do that with the Clash if they really wanted to I would imagine.
Sign me up for seeing/hearing that if it were to happen :mrgreen:
That all seems far too sentimental for them.
"Suck our Earth dick, Martians!" —Doc

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Re: If and only if i wonder what you would think

Post by chocolatejesus »

I think Nick Mason and Peter Hook pull off their retrospectives quite well.
I'd like Something like this to happen, seeing Mick and Paul live with Gorillaz was quite a thrill and i guess they would be smart enough to make it interesting.
But maybe Not using the Clash Name.

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Re: If and only if i wonder what you would think

Post by Mark^Bastard »

Call it The Clash 3.0 and every song is a different take on Red Angel Dragnet or Crooked Beat

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Re: If and only if i wonder what you would think

Post by Kory »

Mark^Bastard wrote:
27 May 2022, 9:57am
Call it The Clash 3.0 and every song is a different take on Red Angel Dragnet or Crooked Beat
NOW we're talkin'
"Suck our Earth dick, Martians!" —Doc

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