Mohawk Revenge is now Hardcore Clash Only

Clash clash clash. ¡VIVAN LOS NORTEAMERICANOS DEL IMCT Y LAS BRIGADAS DEL CADILLAC NUEVO!
IkarisOne
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Mohawk Revenge is now Hardcore Clash Only

Post by IkarisOne »

"Documenting and discussing the live and punk-era Clash, 1976-1985.
Nothing but noise, rage, blood and aggression. Look elsewhere for your Jazz Odyssey fix"


I've changed the group's name and mission to encompass all non-mainstream, non-soft rock Clash, from beginning to end. And to include kindred and connected bands, as well as those carrying on the in the *real* Clash tradition.

This is a place to appreciate noise, righteous rage, blood, sweat, and guitars cranked to deafening levels. Nothing more, nothing less.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/5423239 ... ONOLOGICAL

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Re: Mohawk Revenge is now Hardcore Clash Only

Post by coffeepotman »

Sounds cool, I've requested to join the group

Marky Dread
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Re: Mohawk Revenge is now Hardcore Clash Only

Post by Marky Dread »

The *real* Clash tradition was to constantly evolve musically. Punk rock just being one part of their story.
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Forces have been looting
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The end of liberty


We're the flowers in the dustbin...
No fuchsias for you.

"Without the common people you're nothing"

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IkarisOne
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Re: Mohawk Revenge is now Hardcore Clash Only

Post by IkarisOne »

Marky Dread wrote:
01 Jun 2022, 5:39pm
The *real* Clash tradition was to constantly evolve musically. Punk rock just being one part of their story.
If you say so.

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Re: Mohawk Revenge is now Hardcore Clash Only

Post by Marky Dread »

IkarisOne wrote:
01 Jun 2022, 8:39pm
Marky Dread wrote:
01 Jun 2022, 5:39pm
The *real* Clash tradition was to constantly evolve musically. Punk rock just being one part of their story.
If you say so.
I do.
Image

Forces have been looting
My humanity
Curfews have been curbing
The end of liberty


We're the flowers in the dustbin...
No fuchsias for you.

"Without the common people you're nothing"

Nos Sumus Una Familia

Flex
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Re: Mohawk Revenge is now Hardcore Clash Only

Post by Flex »

I thought the real clash tradition was getting busted at the airport for horse
Wiggle, wiggle, wiggle like a bowl of soup
Wiggle, wiggle, wiggle like a rolling hoop
Wiggle, wiggle, wiggle like a ton of lead
Wiggle - you can raise the dead

Pex Lives!

IkarisOne
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Re: Mohawk Revenge is now Hardcore Clash Only

Post by IkarisOne »

Flex wrote:
01 Jun 2022, 9:25pm
I thought the real clash tradition was getting busted at the airport for horse
:mrgreen:

Marky Dread
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Re: Mohawk Revenge is now Hardcore Clash Only

Post by Marky Dread »

Flex wrote:
01 Jun 2022, 9:25pm
I thought the real clash tradition was getting busted at the airport for horse
We're controlled in the price of the hardest drugs
We can find.
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Forces have been looting
My humanity
Curfews have been curbing
The end of liberty


We're the flowers in the dustbin...
No fuchsias for you.

"Without the common people you're nothing"

Nos Sumus Una Familia

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Re: Mohawk Revenge is now Hardcore Clash Only

Post by Kory »

Marky Dread wrote:
01 Jun 2022, 8:51pm
IkarisOne wrote:
01 Jun 2022, 8:39pm
Marky Dread wrote:
01 Jun 2022, 5:39pm
The *real* Clash tradition was to constantly evolve musically. Punk rock just being one part of their story.
If you say so.
I do.
I do too. I think the purpose of any band is to do whatever they want without outside meddling as best they can. It's obvious that what they wanted to do was explore genres and see what they could do with them, partly for their own exploration, and partly to expose people to more variety. The fact that this led to what might be categorized as pretty modal, "druggy" music by the end is just fine with me, because I have a soft spot for it and I think they were great at their version of it. I'll extoll the virtues of GEER all the live-long day but if they had stayed in the rock genre, there's no way in hell they'd be anywhere close to my favorite band now. There's only so much you can do with rock, and anyone that doesn't want to repeat themselves recognizes that instinctively, I think.
"Suck our Earth dick, Martians!" —Doc

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Re: Mohawk Revenge is now Hardcore Clash Only

Post by Flex »

I think it's both. What's funny is there's really Studio Clash and Live Clash and I love them both, and how different they are.

When the band started out, those early singles and the first record felt a lot like trying to capture the sound of the band at a moment in time and the divergence between Studio and Live didn't feel that significent. Even by GEER, though, the band seemed to realize the studio could be a place to do some pretty different stuff. On that record, though, the common purpose of creating balls to the wall rock and roll remained the guiding light of both studio and live. By LC, that had shifted. LC is a masterpiece, and I love S! and CR too, but Studio Clash and Live Clash started working to divergent purposes around here. With LC, there adventuring instincts created a (nearly) flawless masterpiece. They didn't have to rock hard to create great music. What's interesting is that Live Clash still continued to be, as its standard mode, a really hard rocking punk and roll band who incorporated these additional sounds in very savvy in tasteful ways, to augment the rock rather than supplanting it.

Sandinista comes along, a wonderful mess of a record, with lots of great cuts but - perhaps for the first time - more than just a stray track or two that don't really work. I mean, I even love the bad shit at this point because I have Clashpilled brain poisoning, but there's some weak shit here. And not just like "oh, I guess you don't like reggae or jazz or folk" or whatever. Yeah, no, I like all that stuff and that's how I know some of these cuts don't really work. The ambition and adventurism outstrips the actual talent. But, hey, that's punk rock for ya. That's one of the things that's fun.

But that instinct doesn't carry over live, really. The S! tracks keep getting worked on in the live setting. Lots of them get amped up into true rockers. The musical detours make more sense in the context of the live setlist. The Clash's instincts onstage remain really strong.

Then you get CR. Half a great record, half a participation trophy (I'm saying this lovingly - it's a great record in my book, but the criticisms aren't unwarranted. I just accept them and still love it). Here there are some real missteps. The band is aping music they don't really know how to play sometimes. There are obsessions that kinda backfire. Whatever. It's still a huge record. And guess what? The band still kicks total ass live. They rock and fucking roll. They sublimate the doofy shit from Studio Clash and either toss it or rework it into a kick-ass live rock concert. Again, it's not that the musical adventurism is gone in the live setting, it's just that they put a bunch more muscle into it. They really make it work for what they actually know how to do. I give Mick a lot of credit here. Sure, every band member has an off night here or there but right up until the bitter end Mick knows how to put on a GREAT clash concert. Clash II take up the banner and their live stuff has been litigated for decades.

Anyways, I love the tension. I love studio clash and live clash and I love the great studio tracks and I even love the bullshit that doesn't really work. But I really, really love that putting on a crushing rock concert remained the north star for the band from first concert to last concert. That fucking rules.
Wiggle, wiggle, wiggle like a bowl of soup
Wiggle, wiggle, wiggle like a rolling hoop
Wiggle, wiggle, wiggle like a ton of lead
Wiggle - you can raise the dead

Pex Lives!

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Re: Mohawk Revenge is now Hardcore Clash Only

Post by Marky Dread »

Flex wrote:
02 Jun 2022, 5:18pm
I think it's both. What's funny is there's really Studio Clash and Live Clash and I love them both, and how different they are.

When the band started out, those early singles and the first record felt a lot like trying to capture the sound of the band at a moment in time and the divergence between Studio and Live didn't feel that significent. Even by GEER, though, the band seemed to realize the studio could be a place to do some pretty different stuff. On that record, though, the common purpose of creating balls to the wall rock and roll remained the guiding light of both studio and live. By LC, that had shifted. LC is a masterpiece, and I love S! and CR too, but Studio Clash and Live Clash started working to divergent purposes around here. With LC, there adventuring instincts created a (nearly) flawless masterpiece. They didn't have to rock hard to create great music. What's interesting is that Live Clash still continued to be, as its standard mode, a really hard rocking punk and roll band who incorporated these additional sounds in very savvy in tasteful ways, to augment the rock rather than supplanting it.

Sandinista comes along, a wonderful mess of a record, with lots of great cuts but - perhaps for the first time - more than just a stray track or two that don't really work. I mean, I even love the bad shit at this point because I have Clashpilled brain poisoning, but there's some weak shit here. And not just like "oh, I guess you don't like reggae or jazz or folk" or whatever. Yeah, no, I like all that stuff and that's how I know some of these cuts don't really work. The ambition and adventurism outstrips the actual talent. But, hey, that's punk rock for ya. That's one of the things that's fun.

But that instinct doesn't carry over live, really. The S! tracks keep getting worked on in the live setting. Lots of them get amped up into true rockers. The musical detours make more sense in the context of the live setlist. The Clash's instincts onstage remain really strong.

Then you get CR. Half a great record, half a participation trophy (I'm saying this lovingly - it's a great record in my book, but the criticisms aren't unwarranted. I just accept them and still love it). Here there are some real missteps. The band is aping music they don't really know how to play sometimes. There are obsessions that kinda backfire. Whatever. It's still a huge record. And guess what? The band still kicks total ass live. They rock and fucking roll. They sublimate the doofy shit from Studio Clash and either toss it or rework it into a kick-ass live rock concert. Again, it's not that the musical adventurism is gone in the live setting, it's just that they put a bunch more muscle into it. They really make it work for what they actually know how to do. I give Mick a lot of credit here. Sure, every band member has an off night here or there but right up until the bitter end Mick knows how to put on a GREAT clash concert. Clash II take up the banner and their live stuff has been litigated for decades.

Anyways, I love the tension. I love studio clash and live clash and I love the great studio tracks and I even love the bullshit that doesn't really work. But I really, really love that putting on a crushing rock concert remained the north star for the band from first concert to last concert. That fucking rules.
Exactly right Flex The Clash live and in the studio were two separate beasts. But they pushed forward musically evolving trying different styles. Sometimes they failed sometimes they were victorious.

But as a band they kept on with the brave approach that nothing was out of reach. They might not have been "hardcore" punk by the time of Combat Rock but they were still making interesting music of worth. Certainly not Emerson, Lake & Palmer or fucking soft rock as mentioned elsewhere.

I'll take Complete Control and I'll take Straight to Hell as being great music. Two very different sounding songs both fucking hardcore awesome.
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Forces have been looting
My humanity
Curfews have been curbing
The end of liberty


We're the flowers in the dustbin...
No fuchsias for you.

"Without the common people you're nothing"

Nos Sumus Una Familia

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Re: Mohawk Revenge is now Hardcore Clash Only

Post by Low Down Low »

My first exposure to Clash was S! so whatever "real" Clash is supposed to be, it's that later, more expansive material that drew me in and which, as a consequence, I'm that bit more partial to. At the same time i can empathise with the likes of Mark Perry who were there from the beginning and were less sanguine about the departure from the initial roots. At the end of the day, for all the blips and missteps, i don't believe you can say they ever went stale or boring anyway.

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Re: Mohawk Revenge is now Hardcore Clash Only

Post by Marky Dread »

Low Down Low wrote:
02 Jun 2022, 7:13pm
My first exposure to Clash was S! so whatever "real" Clash is supposed to be, it's that later, more expansive material that drew me in and which, as a consequence, I'm that bit more partial to. At the same time i can empathise with the likes of Mark Perry who were there from the beginning and were less sanguine about the departure from the initial roots. At the end of the day, for all the blips and missteps, i don't believe you can say they ever went stale or boring anyway.
Ha! Mark P. they sold out the day they signed to CBS. Complete dumb punk rock brain. No foresight.
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Forces have been looting
My humanity
Curfews have been curbing
The end of liberty


We're the flowers in the dustbin...
No fuchsias for you.

"Without the common people you're nothing"

Nos Sumus Una Familia

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Re: Mohawk Revenge is now Hardcore Clash Only

Post by IkarisOne »

Lazy, two chord vamps based in long-exhausted idioms isn't evolving, its devolving. Song fragments that putter along without hooks, energy or dynamics is hippie Boomer wank, not musical progress. Eight minute fake jazz noodling is hippie Boomer wank.

No one back then but Mick and a handful of industry shills thought any of the Jazz Odyssey Clash was bold or new. A lot of serious reviewers thought it was corny and old fashioned. Go read some of the old reviews for yourself. What it all showed was confusion, lack of direction, lack of interpersonal unity and the consumption of way too many drugs. And it was the hardcore Clash inspired bands who decisively won the battle in an absolute rout, a long time ago now.

But I have no beef with anyone who enjoys Diet Clash. Life is short, do what makes you happy. I personally think life is more interesting when you set parameters. Games are more interesting with rules. Diet Clash, Castrated Clash, Jazz Odyssey Clash just don't cut it anymore. I know all that stuff by heart, I dont need to hear it ever again. It sounds old, weak and tired, a lost cause.

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Re: Mohawk Revenge is now Hardcore Clash Only

Post by SuzukiSamurai »

IkarisOne wrote:
02 Jun 2022, 7:37pm
Lazy, two chord vamps based in long-exhausted idioms isn't evolving, its devolving. Song fragments that putter along without hooks, energy or dynamics is hippie Boomer wank, not musical progress. Eight minute fake jazz noodling is hippie Boomer wank.

No one back then but Mick and a handful of industry shills thought any of the Jazz Odyssey Clash was bold or new. A lot of serious reviewers thought it was corny and old fashioned. Go read some of the old reviews for yourself. What it all showed was confusion, lack of direction, lack of interpersonal unity and the consumption of way too many drugs. And it was the hardcore Clash inspired bands who decisively won the battle in an absolute rout, a long time ago now.

But I have no beef with anyone who enjoys Diet Clash. Life is short, do what makes you happy. I personally think life is more interesting when you set parameters. Games are more interesting with rules. Diet Clash, Castrated Clash, Jazz Odyssey Clash just don't cut it anymore. I know all that stuff by heart, I dont need to hear it ever again. It sounds old, weak and tired, a lost cause.
One man's Jazz Odyssey Clash is another man's treasure.
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