Topper with the Moors Murderers

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APACHES67
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Topper with the Moors Murderers

Post by APACHES67 »

Have read Topper played For short time with the punk band Moors Murderers together with Chrissie Hynde. Who knows more details?

Low Down Low
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Re: Topper with the Moors Murderers

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Just checked Chrissie's book and there's a couple of pages about this very short lived band. She bumped into Steve Strange one night and he said he'd a few songs and was hoping to showcase them for some record company guy and would she be interested to join him. One of the songs was called "Free Hindley". Chrissie thought it was all just a bit of fun and that nobody would know it was her and was mortified to see her name on the cover of Sounds the following week with her new band, The Moors Murderers. That seems to have been the extent of it. I guess Topper could have been part of it, but she doesn't mention him anyway.

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Re: Topper with the Moors Murderers

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Reading a bit more about this, I dont know how much involvement topper could have ever had with this, especially given he'd have been playing with the Clash for a while by that stage.

https://dangerousminds.net/comments/ste ... qus_thread

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Re: Topper with the Moors Murderers

Post by oliver »

I was expecting to see one of those photos like the one with Jimmy Savile, Frank Bruno and Peter Sutcliffe together.

Kind of happy it isn't.
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Re: Topper with the Moors Murderers

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oliver wrote:
30 Jun 2022, 10:03am
I was expecting to see one of those photos like the one with Jimmy Savile, Frank Bruno and Peter Sutcliffe together.

Kind of happy it isn't.
As these things went back then with all the nazi insignia and stuff, it's not all that shocking though I have to say the white pillow cases really do look chilling and not in a good way! Going to assume Chrissie is not among those in that pic!

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Re: Topper with the Moors Murderers

Post by Marky Dread »

Topper had nothing to do with the Moors Murderers project.
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Re: Topper with the Moors Murderers

Post by Marky Dread »

Low Down Low wrote:
30 Jun 2022, 10:46am
oliver wrote:
30 Jun 2022, 10:03am
I was expecting to see one of those photos like the one with Jimmy Savile, Frank Bruno and Peter Sutcliffe together.

Kind of happy it isn't.
As these things went back then with all the nazi insignia and stuff, it's not all that shocking though I have to say the white pillow cases really do look chilling and not in a good way! Going to assume Chrissie is not among those in that pic!
Chrissie is in the pic. She's the one smoking in both pics.
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Forces have been looting
My humanity
Curfews have been curbing
The end of liberty


We're the flowers in the dustbin...
No fuchsias for you.

"Without the common people you're nothing"

Nos Sumus Una Familia

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Re: Topper with the Moors Murderers

Post by Chairman Ralph »

For those who don't know, there's a huge section about the MM thing on the Punk 77 site:

http://www.punk77.co.uk/groups/moors_murderers.htm

Lots more info than I can remember seeing, beyond the usual cursory summaries that I've seen elsewhere else. Topper's involvement gets denied here:

http://www.punk77.co.uk/groups/moors_mu ... 20band.htm

Dave Goodman also devotes a brief chapter to the MM scam in his book, and naturally, there's a section on that, as well. I never bought the idea of Topper's involvement, either, though I suppose the whole "guess who's under those hoods" thing is what fueled such stories in the first place. One of the stranger one-offs to come out of the '77 sceen, for sure.

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Re: Topper with the Moors Murderers

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Thanks marky and ralph. It is curious to know why or how toppers name got dragged into it at all. Chrissie was on the white riot tour so this would seem to have played out from June 77 onwards when Topper was away touring Europe so any chance of even a bit part role seems very remote indeed. From reading Chrissie's account, she seems to only give half the story and Steve Strange seems to prefer forgetting it ever happened at all. Not their finest hour I guess, but then we all did dumb shit in our teens/early 20s!

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Re: Topper with the Moors Murderers

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Low Down Low wrote:
03 Jul 2022, 6:21am
Thanks marky and ralph. It is curious to know why or how toppers name got dragged into it at all. Chrissie was on the white riot tour so this would seem to have played out from June 77 onwards when Topper was away touring Europe so any chance of even a bit part role seems very remote indeed. From reading Chrissie's account, she seems to only give half the story and Steve Strange seems to prefer forgetting it ever happened at all. Not their finest hour I guess, but then we all did dumb shit in our teens/early 20s!
You have to remember that Chrissie was overlooked a fair bit by the bands around at the time. Malcolm McLaren had her as a bit part player. There was a band called Masters of the Backside that was Malcolm's terrible idea which had Rat Scabies on drums but nothing came of that.

I also think (just my theory) that there was a snobbery at play because one Chrissie could play and two she was an American. So it's no surprise that Chrissie went along with the Moors Murderers thing.

What started as a joke idea albeit a bad taste joke as a shock tactic backfired as it's subject was still very raw.

Chrissie is fantastic though and she was always destined for greatness.
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Forces have been looting
My humanity
Curfews have been curbing
The end of liberty


We're the flowers in the dustbin...
No fuchsias for you.

"Without the common people you're nothing"

Nos Sumus Una Familia

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Re: Topper with the Moors Murderers

Post by Low Down Low »

Marky Dread wrote:
03 Jul 2022, 6:46am
Low Down Low wrote:
03 Jul 2022, 6:21am
Thanks marky and ralph. It is curious to know why or how toppers name got dragged into it at all. Chrissie was on the white riot tour so this would seem to have played out from June 77 onwards when Topper was away touring Europe so any chance of even a bit part role seems very remote indeed. From reading Chrissie's account, she seems to only give half the story and Steve Strange seems to prefer forgetting it ever happened at all. Not their finest hour I guess, but then we all did dumb shit in our teens/early 20s!
You have to remember that Chrissie was overlooked a fair bit by the bands around at the time. Malcolm McLaren had her as a bit part player. There was a band called Masters of the Backside that was Malcolm's terrible idea which had Rat Scabies on drums but nothing came of that.

I also think (just my theory) that there was a snobbery at play because one Chrissie could play and two she was an American. So it's no surprise that Chrissie went along with the Moors Murderers thing.

What started as a joke idea albeit a bad taste joke as a shock tactic backfired as it's subject was still very raw.

Chrissie is fantastic though and she was always destined for greatness.
Very true. The only thing i find jarring is the photo with the white pillow cases, i know the symbolism is unintended but it just looks bad and i'm just a bit surprised even a young Chrissie wouldn't have seen that. Otherwise, its just all a minor footnote in a long and glorious history, though a curious and interesting one. Incidentally, one consequence she does note is her then manager, Tony Secunda, reacted furiously to the MM being on the cover of Sounds and that was the end of their relationship and it pretty much put her back to square one. The book brilliantly portrays the struggle she had to get her footing in the business but, like you say, I think she was so talented and determined, it was always going to happen one way or another.

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Re: Topper with the Moors Murderers

Post by Marky Dread »

Low Down Low wrote:
03 Jul 2022, 7:07am
Marky Dread wrote:
03 Jul 2022, 6:46am
Low Down Low wrote:
03 Jul 2022, 6:21am
Thanks marky and ralph. It is curious to know why or how toppers name got dragged into it at all. Chrissie was on the white riot tour so this would seem to have played out from June 77 onwards when Topper was away touring Europe so any chance of even a bit part role seems very remote indeed. From reading Chrissie's account, she seems to only give half the story and Steve Strange seems to prefer forgetting it ever happened at all. Not their finest hour I guess, but then we all did dumb shit in our teens/early 20s!
You have to remember that Chrissie was overlooked a fair bit by the bands around at the time. Malcolm McLaren had her as a bit part player. There was a band called Masters of the Backside that was Malcolm's terrible idea which had Rat Scabies on drums but nothing came of that.

I also think (just my theory) that there was a snobbery at play because one Chrissie could play and two she was an American. So it's no surprise that Chrissie went along with the Moors Murderers thing.

What started as a joke idea albeit a bad taste joke as a shock tactic backfired as it's subject was still very raw.

Chrissie is fantastic though and she was always destined for greatness.
Very true. The only thing i find jarring is the photo with the white pillow cases, i know the symbolism is unintended but it just looks bad and i'm just a bit surprised even a young Chrissie wouldn't have seen that. Otherwise, its just all a minor footnote in a long and glorious history, though a curious and interesting one. Incidentally, one consequence she does note is her then manager, Tony Secunda, reacted furiously to the MM being on the cover of Sounds and that was the end of their relationship and it pretty much put her back to square one. The book brilliantly portrays the struggle she had to get her footing in the business but, like you say, I think she was so talented and determined, it was always going to happen one way or another.
The shock tactics of the Moors Murderers isn't at all surprising. Don't forget Chrissie worked in SEX. A shop which surrounded her with t-shirts of naked boys/The Cambridge Rapist/Tom of Finland Cowboys with their dicks hanging out and so on.
Image

Forces have been looting
My humanity
Curfews have been curbing
The end of liberty


We're the flowers in the dustbin...
No fuchsias for you.

"Without the common people you're nothing"

Nos Sumus Una Familia

Chairman Ralph
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Re: Topper with the Moors Murderers

Post by Chairman Ralph »

The shock tactics of the Moors Murderers isn't at all surprising. Don't forget Chrissie worked in SEX. A shop which surrounded her with t-shirts of naked boys/The Cambridge Rapist/Tom of Finland Cowboys with their dicks hanging out and so on.
That, and there's also the use of the swastika to shock, and upset -- a tactic that went back to Johnny Thunders's infamous red T-shirt bearing that image -- coupled with the tabloids' eagerness to pick up anything like that, and run with it. So it's not hard to see why Steve Strange thought it worth a shot, though the resulting fallout to the Moors Murderers scheme suggests there are a few limits to the slogan, "There's no such thing as bad publicity."

I got a reminder of this whole shock 'n' awe" atmosphere of the era while looking through the reproduced clippings from Tessa's scrapbook that came with the Slits doc (Here To Be Heard), where you have some headlines mining the familiar sex, drugs 'n' rock 'n' roll territory ("Dope And Drinks For The Gutter Girls"), and others highlighting songs or lyrics deemed questionable, like Shoplifting ("They're All Into Stealing Now").

All that aside, it's difficult for me to imagine someone like Topper getting involved with a low-budget, high-risk venture like the Moors Murderers, since he'd already done the working band thing, and was playing with a band (Fury) that had a record deal already, when the Clash came knocking. I suspect those would have been the benchmarks (in his mind) for getting involved with any band.

I doubt he would have been terribly excited at the prospect of getting involved with a band that couldn't show their faces, had nothing on the date sheet, and no immediate prospects of anything else. That his name did get dropped -- and still does -- is another one of those urban legends writ large, yet run riot.

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Re: Topper with the Moors Murderers

Post by Low Down Low »

Ok, I'm not suggesting this is a big deal or anything. Fair enough Chrissie being American maybe didn't get the rawness of the whole Moors murderer thing, but that could hardly apply to putting a white hood over your head. It's just that one image I find jarring, but we all make mistakes.

Incidentally, wasn't it Mick or Bernie, or possibly both, who drew a line at the punk festival gig and refused to help or lend gear to bands parading nazi symbols? Not surprising, I guess, given their heritage, but still something I found admirable.

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Re: Topper with the Moors Murderers

Post by Marky Dread »

Low Down Low wrote:
03 Jul 2022, 3:42pm
Ok, I'm not suggesting this is a big deal or anything. Fair enough Chrissie being American maybe didn't get the rawness of the whole Moors murderer thing, but that could hardly apply to putting a white hood over your head. It's just that one image I find jarring, but we all make mistakes.

Incidentally, wasn't it Mick or Bernie, or possibly both, who drew a line at the punk festival gig and refused to help or lend gear to bands parading nazi symbols? Not surprising, I guess, given their heritage, but still something I found admirable.
That was Bernie. He refused to let the original Suzie and the Banshees use the Clash amps at the 100 club due to Sid Vicious having a swastika on his t-shirt. Sid had called Bernie "a mean old jew".

The swastika and iron cross etc go further back in rock n roll than Johnny Thunders. The t-shirt Johnny wore was the same one Sid later wore and also Stiv Bators. The original punk idea of shocking the older generation and laughing at taboos was in some respects a positive move. But the swastika being a symbol of fear and hatred was an ill conceived idea and a bad move.

The "Destroy" t-shirt that Vivienne and Malcolm designed
with christ on the cross printed upside down and the swastika overlaid on the image with a UK postage stamp was an incredibly bold statement to make. Attacking those things that were sacrosanct.
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Forces have been looting
My humanity
Curfews have been curbing
The end of liberty


We're the flowers in the dustbin...
No fuchsias for you.

"Without the common people you're nothing"

Nos Sumus Una Familia

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