This Is England Appreciation Thread

Clash clash clash. ¡VIVAN LOS NORTEAMERICANOS DEL IMCT Y LAS BRIGADAS DEL CADILLAC NUEVO!
Hammy
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Re: This Is England Appreciation Thread

Post by Hammy »

Yeah, but let's finally be clear, The Clash were a 'rock n' roll' band – always a ROCK N' ROLL band...maybe just the latest incarnation of The Rolling Stones.
Look at their place in the scheme of things now, they're almost looked upon as a 'Beatles'-musically. Simply put, 'the politics' made good copy (from Bernie) and the 'product' became a beautiful, appealing package when the band played it down or (in Mick's case) shrugged it off. I recall writing along the lines of The Clash (around London Calling time) viewing themselves as an 'A political band' – their true selves(?)

Marky Dread
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Re: This Is England Appreciation Thread

Post by Marky Dread »

Yes but we're not discussing the fact that they were a rock n roll band. They dabbled in politics with their lyrical content.

So are you suggesting that because they were only a rock n roll band that they shouldn't be taken to task?

I was comparing them with Billy Bragg and The Redskins who were around at a similar time and simply getting their political messages across much better than The Clash. Billy and The Redskins were only rock n roll players also.
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Chairman Ralph
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Re: This Is England Appreciation Thread

Post by Chairman Ralph »

Yeah, but let's finally be clear, The Clash were a 'rock n' roll' band – always a ROCK N' ROLL band...maybe just the latest incarnation of The Rolling Stones.
Look at their place in the scheme of things now, they're almost looked upon as a 'Beatles'-musically. Simply put, 'the politics' made good copy (from Bernie) and the 'product' became a beautiful, appealing package when the band played it down or (in Mick's case) shrugged it off. I recall writing along the lines of The Clash (around London Calling time) viewing themselves as an 'A political band' – their true selves(?)
I'm glad, for purely personal reasons, that they found their place in that scheme -- otherwise, WATC would never have happened! :mrgreen:

When I started in '89, that was one of the first roadblocks that got thrown my way -- I had a couple agents tell me, essentially, "Yeah, it's a nice history lesson, but it's had its day, so fuhgeddaboutit." I remember one who wrote me back with a terse note: "This wouldn't stand a chance in today's market. The emphasis is on things that are new, not the past."

Still others seemed to think it was a viable project, but only if it was tied to some kind of money-spinning reunion or other. I told them to stop dining out on the same rumors that everyone else was feasting on, at the time, including the money men who apparently wanted such a thing to happen.

Some day I will tell that whole story, because there's plenty more where that came from.

That said, it's interesting to think about how their standing has changed over the years -- for years, my standing joke has been, "If MOJO had a house band, it's gotta be the Clash or Pink Floyd, 'cause look who keeps on alternating their covers!" Not to mention all the endless special editions that they've cranked out over the years, and they're far from the only ones. That's one measuring stick of the ongoing interest, I suppose, something that seemed far away when I started that particular quest in '89.

Marky Dread
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Re: This Is England Appreciation Thread

Post by Marky Dread »

Chairman Ralph wrote:
01 Jul 2020, 4:41pm
Yeah, but let's finally be clear, The Clash were a 'rock n' roll' band – always a ROCK N' ROLL band...maybe just the latest incarnation of The Rolling Stones.
Look at their place in the scheme of things now, they're almost looked upon as a 'Beatles'-musically. Simply put, 'the politics' made good copy (from Bernie) and the 'product' became a beautiful, appealing package when the band played it down or (in Mick's case) shrugged it off. I recall writing along the lines of The Clash (around London Calling time) viewing themselves as an 'A political band' – their true selves(?)
I'm glad, for purely personal reasons, that they found their place in that scheme -- otherwise, WATC would never have happened! :mrgreen:

When I started in '89, that was one of the first roadblocks that got thrown my way -- I had a couple agents tell me, essentially, "Yeah, it's a nice history lesson, but it's had its day, so fuhgeddaboutit." I remember one who wrote me back with a terse note: "This wouldn't stand a chance in today's market. The emphasis is on things that are new, not the past."

Still others seemed to think it was a viable project, but only if it was tied to some kind of money-spinning reunion or other. I told them to stop dining out on the same rumors that everyone else was feasting on, at the time, including the money men who apparently wanted such a thing to happen.

Some day I will tell that whole story, because there's plenty more where that came from.

That said, it's interesting to think about how their standing has changed over the years -- for years, my standing joke has been, "If MOJO had a house band, it's gotta be the Clash or Pink Floyd, 'cause look who keeps on alternating their covers!" Not to mention all the endless special editions that they've cranked out over the years, and they're far from the only ones. That's one measuring stick of the ongoing interest, I suppose, something that seemed far away when I started that particular quest in '89.
Brilliant that you stuck to your guns Ralph. The time and effort/research you and Mark put in paid off handsomely for what is an essential book. Love it!
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Re: This Is England Appreciation Thread

Post by Chairman Ralph »

Thanks, Marky -- that's what I've always tried to do, more or less. I've always joked to the wife that if the majority seem really stuck on something, I probably won't be doing it -- 'cause it'd make me think, "They've caught up at last," or, "Oh God, I've just gone 20 steps back." :mrgreen:

I found the idea of a reunion needing to justify the premise insulting, and I told a couple of these gatekeepers as much. I said, "Do you realize that you're dealing with four guys who don't agree on anything but the time -- and even that's subject to debate?" :mrgreen: I personally thought the idea was strong enough as it stood.

But people always try to twist you this way or that (" people only wanna Xerox you, baby, they only got a quota to fill," as Joe sings on Earthquake Weather). I got a taste of this early in my career, when I was doing all those Goldmine retro pieces.

I can remember a guy suggesting that I do a book on the latest 'n' greatest country stars -- this was when all the so-called "hat acts" like Alan Jackson and people of that nature were starting to emerge .

I said, "Well, the only problem with that idea is if I go to one of their gigs, I'll need to bring lots of yellow tape, so I can seal off the crime scene. The bouncers wouldn't like it, but I can't fake what I don't feel. 'Cause some of it's all right, but it's not really my cup of tea."

And yet he persisted: "Oh, c'mon, you could make a lot of money!"

"That brings me to my other point, then," I said.

"What's that?"

"I think I'd need lots of caffeine or some kind of pill to stay awake. Chances are, I'd fall asleep halfway through the exercise, and I wouldn't get it done in time. So maybe it's best left to someone else. Maybe some younger guy who already wears one of those big hats."

History does not record who led, or what happened after that. :mrgreen:

Marky Dread
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Re: This Is England Appreciation Thread

Post by Marky Dread »

Chairman Ralph wrote:
01 Jul 2020, 6:56pm
Thanks, Marky -- that's what I've always tried to do, more or less. I've always joked to the wife that if the majority seem really stuck on something, I probably won't be doing it -- 'cause it'd make me think, "They've caught up at last," or, "Oh God, I've just gone 20 steps back." :mrgreen:

I found the idea of a reunion needing to justify the premise insulting, and I told a couple of these gatekeepers as much. I said, "Do you realize that you're dealing with four guys who don't agree on anything but the time -- and even that's subject to debate?" :mrgreen: I personally thought the idea was strong enough as it stood.

But people always try to twist you this way or that (" people only wanna Xerox you, baby, they only got a quota to fill," as Joe sings on Earthquake Weather). I got a taste of this early in my career, when I was doing all those Goldmine retro pieces.

I can remember a guy suggesting that I do a book on the latest 'n' greatest country stars -- this was when all the so-called "hat acts" like Alan Jackson and people of that nature were starting to emerge .

I said, "Well, the only problem with that idea is if I go to one of their gigs, I'll need to bring lots of yellow tape, so I can seal off the crime scene. The bouncers wouldn't like it, but I can't fake what I don't feel. 'Cause some of it's all right, but it's not really my cup of tea."

And yet he persisted: "Oh, c'mon, you could make a lot of money!"

"That brings me to my other point, then," I said.

"What's that?"

"I think I'd need lots of caffeine or some kind of pill to stay awake. Chances are, I'd fall asleep halfway through the exercise, and I wouldn't get it done in time. So maybe it's best left to someone else. Maybe some younger guy who already wears one of those big hats."

History does not record who led, or what happened after that. :mrgreen:
:lol:

But the pay off is the fact that it wasn't "just" another Clash book. Reserarched thoroughly and not just about the band but the historical content that is often missing plus the political and musical climate of that period. It's a fine read for sure mate.
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Chairman Ralph
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Re: This Is England Appreciation Thread

Post by Chairman Ralph »

But the pay off is the fact that it wasn't "just" another Clash book. Reserarched thoroughly and not just about the band but the historical content that is often missing plus the political and musical climate of that period. It's a fine read for sure mate.
Oh yeah, trust me, I'm fine with how it all turned out, even if took a mere 29 years to realize that dream! :mrgreen:

But the above example I gave shows the weird propositions that you often get in this trade. I mean, anybody who'd taken the time and trouble to do their homework wouldn't have asked me something like that in the first place. But I don't recall seeing such a book ever hit the stands, so I'm guessing he never got around to it, either.

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Re: This Is England Appreciation Thread

Post by Marky Dread »

Chairman Ralph wrote:
01 Jul 2020, 7:09pm
But the pay off is the fact that it wasn't "just" another Clash book. Reserarched thoroughly and not just about the band but the historical content that is often missing plus the political and musical climate of that period. It's a fine read for sure mate.
Oh yeah, trust me, I'm fine with how it all turned out, even if took a mere 29 years to realize that dream! :mrgreen:

But the above example I gave shows the weird propositions that you often get in this trade. I mean, anybody who'd taken the time and trouble to do their homework wouldn't have asked me something like that in the first place. But I don't recall seeing such a book ever hit the stands, so I'm guessing he never got around to it, either.
Ahh gotcha. I guess it's one of those things that comes with the territory.
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Heston
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Re: This Is England Appreciation Thread

Post by Heston »

Marky Dread wrote:
01 Jul 2020, 6:20pm
Chairman Ralph wrote:
01 Jul 2020, 4:41pm
Yeah, but let's finally be clear, The Clash were a 'rock n' roll' band – always a ROCK N' ROLL band...maybe just the latest incarnation of The Rolling Stones.
Look at their place in the scheme of things now, they're almost looked upon as a 'Beatles'-musically. Simply put, 'the politics' made good copy (from Bernie) and the 'product' became a beautiful, appealing package when the band played it down or (in Mick's case) shrugged it off. I recall writing along the lines of The Clash (around London Calling time) viewing themselves as an 'A political band' – their true selves(?)
I'm glad, for purely personal reasons, that they found their place in that scheme -- otherwise, WATC would never have happened! :mrgreen:

When I started in '89, that was one of the first roadblocks that got thrown my way -- I had a couple agents tell me, essentially, "Yeah, it's a nice history lesson, but it's had its day, so fuhgeddaboutit." I remember one who wrote me back with a terse note: "This wouldn't stand a chance in today's market. The emphasis is on things that are new, not the past."

Still others seemed to think it was a viable project, but only if it was tied to some kind of money-spinning reunion or other. I told them to stop dining out on the same rumors that everyone else was feasting on, at the time, including the money men who apparently wanted such a thing to happen.

Some day I will tell that whole story, because there's plenty more where that came from.

That said, it's interesting to think about how their standing has changed over the years -- for years, my standing joke has been, "If MOJO had a house band, it's gotta be the Clash or Pink Floyd, 'cause look who keeps on alternating their covers!" Not to mention all the endless special editions that they've cranked out over the years, and they're far from the only ones. That's one measuring stick of the ongoing interest, I suppose, something that seemed far away when I started that particular quest in '89.
Brilliant that you stuck to your guns Ralph. The time and effort/research you and Mark put in paid off handsomely for what is an essential book. Love it!
Seconded, a tremendous read.
There's a tiny, tiny hopeful part of me that says you guys are running a Kaufmanesque long con on the board

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