Author to the slaughter

Clash clash clash. ¡VIVAN LOS NORTEAMERICANOS DEL IMCT Y LAS BRIGADAS DEL CADILLAC NUEVO!
IkarisOne
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Re: Author to the slaughter

Post by IkarisOne »

Silent Majority wrote:
IkarisOne wrote:Hell- even Bowie tried to and he moved to Berlin so he could bang a tranny for 18 months straight!
Him and Iggy were definitely up one another. Definitely.
Re: Guy- Let's not forget that the Clash spent a lot of time trashing Stevens over the Polydor demos, so we can be forgiven that hiring him was a cred move. They had no problem finishing the record without him. Those videos from the early sessions are so douche-chilling it can freeze your brain.
It does make you wonder, though, why Mick as a producer never again reached the same heights as London Calling. Even with Bill Price onboard.

I don't know about the Ig- doesn't seem Bowie's type. As to Mick- you all know how irked I get about the over-generous description of producer. But the big factors were A. the deepening drugs dependency, and B. they actually wrote and rehearsed like a real band for London Calling. That goes a long way in avoiding disaster in the production stages.

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Re: Author to the slaughter

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IkarisOne wrote:
Silent Majority wrote:
IkarisOne wrote:Hell- even Bowie tried to and he moved to Berlin so he could bang a tranny for 18 months straight!
Him and Iggy were definitely up one another. Definitely.
Re: Guy- Let's not forget that the Clash spent a lot of time trashing Stevens over the Polydor demos, so we can be forgiven that hiring him was a cred move. They had no problem finishing the record without him. Those videos from the early sessions are so douche-chilling it can freeze your brain.
It does make you wonder, though, why Mick as a producer never again reached the same heights as London Calling. Even with Bill Price onboard.

I don't know about the Ig- doesn't seem Bowie's type. As to Mick- you all know how irked I get about the over-generous description of producer. But the big factors were A. the deepening drugs dependency, and B. they actually wrote and rehearsed like a real band for London Calling. That goes a long way in avoiding disaster in the production stages.
If only they had rehearsed for Sandinista, Mick would have known to turn the hi hats down in the mix.
Look, you have to establish context for these things. And I maintain that unless you appreciate the Fall of Constantinople, the Great Fire of London, and Mickey Mantle's fatalist alcoholism, live Freddy makes no sense. If you want to half-ass it, fine, go call Simon Schama to do the appendix.

IkarisOne
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Re: Author to the slaughter

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It does make you wonder, though, why Mick as a producer never again reached the same heights as London Calling. Even with Bill Price onboard.
Another thing is Wessex vs Electric Lady. One was home turf and the other was a soft rock hotspot . Plus crappy production was the hot thing in 1980 with the hipsters.

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Re: Author to the slaughter

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IkarisOne wrote:
Heston wrote:
If it's of any interest, Dave Davies directly accuses the Clash of the lift in his book, Kink.

Wrong
Ok, my memory's not what it was, he actually says, "the Clash did a song called 'London Calling' that seemed to be inspired by 'Dead End Street.'

I think it's pretty obvious he's talking about the bass/brass part.
There's a tiny, tiny hopeful part of me that says you guys are running a Kaufmanesque long con on the board

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Re: Author to the slaughter

Post by nsc »

my son is buying me the book for xmas. looking forward to the read.

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Re: Author to the slaughter

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IkarisOne wrote:
Kory wrote:
IkarisOne wrote:more it's proves just what a blatant, naked surrender to the American market the album is.
Bummer.

Not so much- it's fascinating in its way. The Guy Stevens stuff is horrific. And shame on the Clash for all of their bullshit about that whole episode. Marcus peels back the whitewash brilliantly.
I'm up to the Guy Stevens stuff and I've just laughed out loud for the first time.

I'm absolutely loving the book so far, the minutiae is a godsend to a trainspotter like myself. The first 40 or so pages tread a lot of well-worn ground, though I attribute this to Marcus needing to put the reader into the mindset for the main story. Once you get into it, it's unputdownable.

Error Log: The Spencer Davis Group are identified as the Spencer Davis Band.
There's a tiny, tiny hopeful part of me that says you guys are running a Kaufmanesque long con on the board

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Re: Author to the slaughter

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IkarisOne wrote:
Kory wrote:
IkarisOne wrote:more it's proves just what a blatant, naked surrender to the American market the album is.
Bummer.

Not so much- it's fascinating in its way. The Guy Stevens stuff is horrific. And shame on the Clash for all of their bullshit about that whole episode. Marcus peels back the whitewash brilliantly.
Well, I mean it's a bummer that we have to say "shame on you" to The Clash in the first place. I just wish my former(?) favorite band had more to endear them to me anymore.
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Re: Author to the slaughter

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Kory wrote:
IkarisOne wrote:
Kory wrote:
IkarisOne wrote:more it's proves just what a blatant, naked surrender to the American market the album is.
Bummer.

Not so much- it's fascinating in its way. The Guy Stevens stuff is horrific. And shame on the Clash for all of their bullshit about that whole episode. Marcus peels back the whitewash brilliantly.
Well, I mean it's a bummer that we have to say "shame on you" to The Clash in the first place. I just wish my former(?) favorite band had more to endear them to me anymore.
Sound of the Sinners, sir- Sound of the Sinners.

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Re: Author to the slaughter

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Kory wrote:
IkarisOne wrote:
Kory wrote:
IkarisOne wrote:more it's proves just what a blatant, naked surrender to the American market the album is.
Bummer.

Not so much- it's fascinating in its way. The Guy Stevens stuff is horrific. And shame on the Clash for all of their bullshit about that whole episode. Marcus peels back the whitewash brilliantly.
Well, I mean it's a bummer that we have to say "shame on you" to The Clash in the first place. I just wish my former(?) favorite band had more to endear them to me anymore.
Shame on you? .....All those incredible songs and drama, and you're saying "shame on you?"

Oh, hang on, they only split up 24 years ago, of course they should be doing more to endear themselves to you.
There's a tiny, tiny hopeful part of me that says you guys are running a Kaufmanesque long con on the board

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Re: Author to the slaughter

Post by eumaas »

Heston wrote:
Kory wrote:
IkarisOne wrote:
Kory wrote:
IkarisOne wrote:more it's proves just what a blatant, naked surrender to the American market the album is.
Bummer.

Not so much- it's fascinating in its way. The Guy Stevens stuff is horrific. And shame on the Clash for all of their bullshit about that whole episode. Marcus peels back the whitewash brilliantly.
Well, I mean it's a bummer that we have to say "shame on you" to The Clash in the first place. I just wish my former(?) favorite band had more to endear them to me anymore.
Shame on you? .....All those incredible songs and drama, and you're saying "shame on you?"

Oh, hang on, they only split up 24 years ago, of course they should be doing more to endear themselves to you.
Cool down.
I feel that there is a fascistic element, for example, in the Rolling Stones . . .
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I've studied the phenomenon of neo-provincialism in self-isolating online communities but this place takes the fucking cake.
— Clashy

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Re: Author to the slaughter

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Marcus G wrote:[I would have loved to have been at one of the Mott shows, but found it hard to justify the air fare and accommodation to Lady Gray. Plus, by the sounds of it, I would probably have had to spend the entire night hiding in the toilets from the Clash Massive. :D :shifty:
A Mott the Hoople nut mate of mine - one of many who saw all 5 nights at Hammersmith Odeon, sorry, 'HMV Apollo' (cough), and the 2 warm-up club gigs in Monmouth(?) - got me a ticket for the saturday gig (what else?); but I ended up going to 3 of the shows, thanks to the generosity of some of his gang. The Mott/Ian Hunter message board fraternity were in town in force and proved to be as generous and public-spirited as anyone here, I'd like to think.
All the shows were great; apart from the band being really on form and clearly having a great time, the crowd vibe was as happy, positive and relaxed as any gig I've been to. Even the venue's staff seemed to be up for a good time - no frisking on the door, everyone pleasant and helpful. They even seemed to have dispensed with bouncers along the stage front.
I saw a few 'faces' in the crowds - Kris Needs heading for the bogs(!); Bobby Gillespie; music writer John Robb; but I'm pleased to say I saw Mick Jones in the foyer after the final, tuesday night gig, and got to shake his hand and say hello; he was being sort of mobbed by a lot of people but seemed relaxed and happy to hang about, pose for snapshots and so on. Presumably the mythical TeddyB wasn't far away?!
(A nice way to end the run of gigs, and similar to the surprise I had on leaving a show by the Brian Setzer Orchestra at Shepherds Bush Empire in 1999, to see Joe Strummer similarly hanging around the foyer, getting loads of attention from excited punters; another brief but rewarding meet-and-greet I had)
Anyway, I'm sure Marcus would have been tolerated if he was there :mrgreen:
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Re: Author to the slaughter

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eumaas wrote:
Heston wrote:
Kory wrote:
IkarisOne wrote:
Kory wrote: Bummer.

Not so much- it's fascinating in its way. The Guy Stevens stuff is horrific. And shame on the Clash for all of their bullshit about that whole episode. Marcus peels back the whitewash brilliantly.
Well, I mean it's a bummer that we have to say "shame on you" to The Clash in the first place. I just wish my former(?) favorite band had more to endear them to me anymore.
Shame on you? .....All those incredible songs and drama, and you're saying "shame on you?"

Oh, hang on, they only split up 24 years ago, of course they should be doing more to endear themselves to you.
Cool down.
No.

"Shame on you" is something you say to Bon Jovi or Bryan Adams.
There's a tiny, tiny hopeful part of me that says you guys are running a Kaufmanesque long con on the board

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Re: Author to the slaughter

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JohnS wrote: I saw a few 'faces' in the crowds - Kris Needs heading for the bogs(!); Bobby Gillespie; music writer John Robb; but I'm pleased to say I saw Mick Jones in the foyer after the final, tuesday night gig, and got to shake his hand and say hello; he was being sort of mobbed by a lot of people but seemed relaxed and happy to hang about, pose for snapshots and so on. Presumably the mythical TeddyB wasn't far away?!
The not so-mythical TeddyB was almost certainly there, even being kind enough to take those snapshots for some of the fans. Mick and I ventured into the foyer after the Tuesday gig to look for Robin Banks. As you saw, MJ was virtually swallowed up by the crowd. Took us at least twenty minutes 'til there was an opening for us to duck around the corner to the stage door! Bobby G. was there three times, he took Simo with him on Tuesday.

Speaking of snapshots, I was uncool enough after taking a (unfortunately blurry) backstage photo on my Blackberry of Mick with Mott, to let Mick try and take one of me with them. Of course he screwed it up, explaining that after getting the focus he realized not everyone was included, so he stepped back, which caused a big orange flash to obscure the figures in the photo. When I told Ian later on he picked out someone he thought would be competent technically, who turned out to be Blue Weaver, who was the replacement organist in Mott and later Queen. Blue said he had the same Blackberry as me. His photo seemed to work at the time, but it's nowhere to be found on the memory card. Oh well.

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Re: Author to the slaughter

Post by eumaas »

Heston wrote:
eumaas wrote:
Heston wrote:
Kory wrote:
IkarisOne wrote:
Not so much- it's fascinating in its way. The Guy Stevens stuff is horrific. And shame on the Clash for all of their bullshit about that whole episode. Marcus peels back the whitewash brilliantly.
Well, I mean it's a bummer that we have to say "shame on you" to The Clash in the first place. I just wish my former(?) favorite band had more to endear them to me anymore.
Shame on you? .....All those incredible songs and drama, and you're saying "shame on you?"

Oh, hang on, they only split up 24 years ago, of course they should be doing more to endear themselves to you.
Cool down.
No.

"Shame on you" is something you say to Bon Jovi or Bryan Adams.
Read the conversation again. Your beef is with Chris, not Kory.
I feel that there is a fascistic element, for example, in the Rolling Stones . . .
— Morton Feldman

I've studied the phenomenon of neo-provincialism in self-isolating online communities but this place takes the fucking cake.
— Clashy

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Re: Author to the slaughter

Post by Marcus G »

IkarisOne wrote:Well, I've not read the whole thing yet- more in my ADD skip-around technique, but it is absolutely Clash trainspotter heaven. Just brilliant. It's given me a new appreciation of the preparation and production of the album and the interaction between the various band members. What's more it's proves just what a blatant, naked surrender to the American market the album is. All of my worst suspicions are confirmed thanks to Marcus' relentless attention to detail- it's almost painful. The Clash were throwing everything they once stood for to the wolves- the wolves being the aging hippies who were the gatekeepers of American radio and music journalism. And they did so purely so they could be huge in America- which ironically had disappointing results. I haven't dug into that part yet but I think the perfunctory 1980 "tour" -if you can even call it that- proves just how disappointed the Clash were in the results.

Interesting parallel- Guns n Roses released a double album produced by Bill Price and toured for two and a half years. DId the Clash even manage two and a half months? The Police toured Outlandos in a station wagon and did four times as many US dates than the Clash did for London Calling. Its odd- as amazing as they played in 80 I can't listen to those shows anymore. There's something hollow there.

Great work, Marcus. Indispensable reading- love the track by track histories.
Ikaris, you know I love you like a much bigger determinedly contrary gung-ho gonzo freestyling brother... and I appreciate the props, but you're making the book out to be a trashing of all things Clash, which it ain't, and frankly I already get enough of that kind of crap with regard to Last Gang.

I don't say, and don't think, the album was a blatant surrender to the American market, more of a relaxing of the Year Zero punk pose to allow the band member's own musical and cultural interests to come through.

They were keen to break America, yes, but you have to remember that American's weren't listening to London Calling style music in 1980. They were listening to Foreigner and Styxx style music. So the Clash were trying to break the States on their own terms, rather than by pandering to prevailing tastes. The 'gatekeepers' you mention - people like Robert Christgau and Greil Marcus - were maybe arbiters of taste for an ageing minority in the USA, but I don't think their opinions meant that much to the Clash's more youthful core audience.

The 1980 US tour had to be short because Paul S had filming commitments on Ladies and Gentlemen the Fabulous Stains, aka Caroline Coon's Revenge. And after that, the Clash had to slot in Europe before they were contractually obliged to deliver another album by the end of 1980. They didn't have time for the kind of touring schedule you advocate. Which is pretty much guaranteed to burn a band out anyway.

'Trainspotter heaven', 'relentless attention to detail - it's almost painful'... some people would take those compliments as so heavily backhanded that they might as well have a knuckleduster attached. The superficial take on the album and its songs has already been done. The only point of revisiting London Calling is if you get right in there, turn over every stone and try and look at things anew. I'd be the first to admit that this kind of approach doesn't appeal to everyone. That said, I'd maintain that you don't need to be a Clash fanatic to get something out of the central 'stories behind the songs' section, because it's really the story of the evolution of 20th Century popular music.

On second thoughts, that sounds way too boring. Let's go with what Ikaris said...

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