The Clash observations thread.

Clash clash clash. ¡VIVAN LOS NORTEAMERICANOS DEL IMCT Y LAS BRIGADAS DEL CADILLAC NUEVO!
IkarisOne
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Re: The Clash observations thread.

Post by IkarisOne »

BostonBeaneater wrote:
27 Aug 2020, 5:35pm
IkarisOne wrote:
27 Aug 2020, 5:24pm
Heston wrote:
27 Aug 2020, 4:03pm
IkarisOne wrote:
27 Aug 2020, 3:53pm
The good news is that The Clash enjoyed the most remarkable afterlife I've seen of any band since The Beatles.
I still find the renaissance amazing.
I know, right? Especially given how low their stock had gotten during the 80s. Remarkable.
Throughout the late 90s there was a constant rumor about the classic Clash line-up reforming. It really seemed to be gaining momentum when Strummer died. I have to wonder what that would have looked like if it had happened. The first comparison I can think of is the Pixies. There is was a band I saw in it's original incarnation and remembered very fondly. I was psyched when they reformed and saw them on that tour (2004 I believe). Since then they've become the punk equivalent of the washed up metal bands that make their hay playing state fairs and their legacy is in the gutter. I think the fact that the Clash were never heard from again has been great for their reputation.
It keeps it all where it belongs. Rock n Roll is about youth.

Someone offered free Killing Joke tickets last year and I refused. I told the guy, "I don't want to watch 60 year old guys playing metal." I saw the Psychedelic Furs a couple years back and they were great but the audience looked like all the gardening clubs in the area came to get their freak on. It got really unsettling when a couple 50-something soccer moms started doing their cheerleading routines to "Heartbreak Beat."

Heston
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Re: The Clash observations thread.

Post by Heston »

IkarisOne wrote:
27 Aug 2020, 5:24pm
Heston wrote:
27 Aug 2020, 4:03pm
IkarisOne wrote:
27 Aug 2020, 3:53pm
The good news is that The Clash enjoyed the most remarkable afterlife I've seen of any band since The Beatles.
I still find the renaissance amazing.
I know, right? Especially given how low their stock had gotten during the 80s. Remarkable.
I discovered the Clash in 1983, just as they were entering their most fallow period as a recording band. I knew absolutely no one who liked them. Everyone was listening to Crass and Conflict and regarded the Clash as a joke. Any mention of them in the music press was usually derogatory. Then CtC happened and things just got worse. But somehow they rallied with the Story of the Clash reissue and it just snowballed from there. Loads of my friends now love the Clash but it took years of them being drip fed by the media/adverts etc to really get them.
There's a tiny, tiny hopeful part of me that says you guys are running a Kaufmanesque long con on the board

Marky Dread
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Re: The Clash observations thread.

Post by Marky Dread »

BostonBeaneater wrote:
27 Aug 2020, 5:35pm
IkarisOne wrote:
27 Aug 2020, 5:24pm
Heston wrote:
27 Aug 2020, 4:03pm
IkarisOne wrote:
27 Aug 2020, 3:53pm
The good news is that The Clash enjoyed the most remarkable afterlife I've seen of any band since The Beatles.
I still find the renaissance amazing.
I know, right? Especially given how low their stock had gotten during the 80s. Remarkable.
Throughout the late 90s there was a constant rumor about the classic Clash line-up reforming. It really seemed to be gaining momentum when Strummer died. I have to wonder what that would have looked like if it had happened. The first comparison I can think of is the Pixies. There is was a band I saw in it's original incarnation and remembered very fondly. I was psyched when they reformed and saw them on that tour (2004 I believe). Since then they've become the punk equivalent of the washed up metal bands that make their hay playing state fairs and their legacy is in the gutter. I think the fact that the Clash were never heard from again has been great for their reputation.
Yep I agree. If they had returned all that time later it would've been terrible. They would've been better off forging ahead but not under "The Clash" name.
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Marky Dread
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Re: The Clash observations thread.

Post by Marky Dread »

KCportland wrote:
27 Aug 2020, 5:43pm
I just got in this in the mail, something I ordered weeks ago. Nice coincidence it arrived today. This is the 12" 45rpm single version with both Do It Now and Sex Mad Roar on the b-side. I got one still sealed from '85 so I just put it on for it's first ever play.

The mixes here sound so much tighter than what I hear on the CD remasters or even the 33rpm LP versions. TIE has wayyy more bass in the drum machine and the big guitars are pulled back a good deal in the mix. Joe's vocal seems farther to the front as well and the synths & chanting blend better with the uptick in bass. I really like it.

The artwork absolutely POPS btw, very very vivid and bold. Maybe my fave single art they ever did?
The mix on the 12" is better for sure. The only part of the sleeve I dislike is the font used for the song title and the purple.
Last edited by Marky Dread on 27 Aug 2020, 6:08pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Marky Dread
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Re: The Clash observations thread.

Post by Marky Dread »

Heston wrote:
27 Aug 2020, 5:52pm
IkarisOne wrote:
27 Aug 2020, 5:24pm
Heston wrote:
27 Aug 2020, 4:03pm
IkarisOne wrote:
27 Aug 2020, 3:53pm
The good news is that The Clash enjoyed the most remarkable afterlife I've seen of any band since The Beatles.
I still find the renaissance amazing.
I know, right? Especially given how low their stock had gotten during the 80s. Remarkable.
I discovered the Clash in 1983, just as they were entering their most fallow period as a recording band. I knew absolutely no one who liked them. Everyone was listening to Crass and Conflict and regarded the Clash as a joke. Any mention of them in the music press was usually derogatory. Then CtC happened and things just got worse. But somehow they rallied with the Story of the Clash reissue and it just snowballed from there. Loads of my friends now love the Clash but it took years of them being drip fed by the media/adverts etc to really get them.
Yeah but the press (NME mainly) always had a stick up it's backside about the band from '77 onwards. They got really jealous when the band went to the US. But the fans are loyal always. Story of the Clash sold well as it was a nice comp for many to buy some Clash on CD for the first. Especially if you didn't want to replace all your vinyl.
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Low Down Low
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Re: The Clash observations thread.

Post by Low Down Low »

One thing I've felt about the clash in recent years is that all that myth stuff has become irrelevant, or at least far less prominent than it was. I always remember whenever they came up in discussions, you'd get all this shit about joe the posh public school boy and the clash rebel posers among other stuff. I dont see that much anymore. I think it's the music and the message that endures and that, by any standard, is one formidable back catalogue. It's not that surprising to me that their stock should be so high right now, some of those songs were incredibly and almost eerily prescient.

Marky Dread
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Re: The Clash observations thread.

Post by Marky Dread »

Low Down Low wrote:
27 Aug 2020, 6:28pm
One thing I've felt about the clash in recent years is that all that myth stuff has become irrelevant, or at least far less prominent than it was. I always remember whenever they came up in discussions, you'd get all this shit about joe the posh public school boy and the clash rebel posers among other stuff. I dont see that much anymore. I think it's the music and the message that endures and that, by any standard, is one formidable back catalogue. It's not that surprising to me that their stock should be so high right now, some of those songs were incredibly and almost eerily prescient.
Yes they would never be so enduring without creating such a fantastic body of work. Plus a lot of the myths were just silly.
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Heston
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Re: The Clash observations thread.

Post by Heston »

KCportland wrote:
27 Aug 2020, 5:43pm
I just got in this in the mail, something I ordered weeks ago. Nice coincidence it arrived today. This is the 12" 45rpm single version with both Do It Now and Sex Mad Roar on the b-side. I got one still sealed from '85 so I just put it on for it's first ever play.

The mixes here sound so much tighter than what I hear on the CD remasters or even the 33rpm LP versions. TIE has wayyy more bass in the drum machine and the big guitars are pulled back a good deal in the mix. Joe's vocal seems farther to the front as well and the synths & chanting blend better with the uptick in bass. I really like it.

The artwork absolutely POPS btw, very very vivid and bold. Maybe my fave single art they ever did?
I bought that at the time. Am I right in thinking it's the shorter version of TiE without the "British boots" verse?
There's a tiny, tiny hopeful part of me that says you guys are running a Kaufmanesque long con on the board

Marky Dread
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Re: The Clash observations thread.

Post by Marky Dread »

Heston wrote:
27 Aug 2020, 6:43pm
KCportland wrote:
27 Aug 2020, 5:43pm
I just got in this in the mail, something I ordered weeks ago. Nice coincidence it arrived today. This is the 12" 45rpm single version with both Do It Now and Sex Mad Roar on the b-side. I got one still sealed from '85 so I just put it on for it's first ever play.

The mixes here sound so much tighter than what I hear on the CD remasters or even the 33rpm LP versions. TIE has wayyy more bass in the drum machine and the big guitars are pulled back a good deal in the mix. Joe's vocal seems farther to the front as well and the synths & chanting blend better with the uptick in bass. I really like it.

The artwork absolutely POPS btw, very very vivid and bold. Maybe my fave single art they ever did?
I bought that at the time. Am I right in thinking it's the shorter version of TiE without the "British boots" verse?
From memory it's the same as the 7" not as long as the album version. So the answer would be yes.
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KCportland
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Re: The Clash observations thread.

Post by KCportland »

Heston wrote:
27 Aug 2020, 6:43pm
KCportland wrote:
27 Aug 2020, 5:43pm
I just got in this in the mail, something I ordered weeks ago. Nice coincidence it arrived today. This is the 12" 45rpm single version with both Do It Now and Sex Mad Roar on the b-side. I got one still sealed from '85 so I just put it on for it's first ever play.

The mixes here sound so much tighter than what I hear on the CD remasters or even the 33rpm LP versions. TIE has wayyy more bass in the drum machine and the big guitars are pulled back a good deal in the mix. Joe's vocal seems farther to the front as well and the synths & chanting blend better with the uptick in bass. I really like it.

The artwork absolutely POPS btw, very very vivid and bold. Maybe my fave single art they ever did?
I bought that at the time. Am I right in thinking it's the shorter version of TiE without the "British boots" verse?
No, the version included on this issue includes that verse. I've never heard the 7" mix so maybe thats the one that drops it? It does seem to run a bit faster, tempo-wise, but there is no skipped verse.

Marky Dread
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Re: The Clash observations thread.

Post by Marky Dread »

KCportland wrote:
27 Aug 2020, 6:54pm
Heston wrote:
27 Aug 2020, 6:43pm
KCportland wrote:
27 Aug 2020, 5:43pm
I just got in this in the mail, something I ordered weeks ago. Nice coincidence it arrived today. This is the 12" 45rpm single version with both Do It Now and Sex Mad Roar on the b-side. I got one still sealed from '85 so I just put it on for it's first ever play.

The mixes here sound so much tighter than what I hear on the CD remasters or even the 33rpm LP versions. TIE has wayyy more bass in the drum machine and the big guitars are pulled back a good deal in the mix. Joe's vocal seems farther to the front as well and the synths & chanting blend better with the uptick in bass. I really like it.

The artwork absolutely POPS btw, very very vivid and bold. Maybe my fave single art they ever did?
I bought that at the time. Am I right in thinking it's the shorter version of TiE without the "British boots" verse?
No, the version included on this issue includes that verse. I've never heard the 7" mix so maybe thats the one that drops it? It does seem to run a bit faster, tempo-wise, but there is no skipped verse.
I was sure my UK 12" was the same as the 7". Maybe not haven't played it in a very long time.

Oh wait no it's the same as the album version. Only the 7" drops the verse.

I just checked my remaster of the album I did earlier this year. And it's definitely only the 7" that's shorter.
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Heston
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Re: The Clash observations thread.

Post by Heston »

Marky Dread wrote:
27 Aug 2020, 6:59pm
KCportland wrote:
27 Aug 2020, 6:54pm
Heston wrote:
27 Aug 2020, 6:43pm
KCportland wrote:
27 Aug 2020, 5:43pm
I just got in this in the mail, something I ordered weeks ago. Nice coincidence it arrived today. This is the 12" 45rpm single version with both Do It Now and Sex Mad Roar on the b-side. I got one still sealed from '85 so I just put it on for it's first ever play.

The mixes here sound so much tighter than what I hear on the CD remasters or even the 33rpm LP versions. TIE has wayyy more bass in the drum machine and the big guitars are pulled back a good deal in the mix. Joe's vocal seems farther to the front as well and the synths & chanting blend better with the uptick in bass. I really like it.

The artwork absolutely POPS btw, very very vivid and bold. Maybe my fave single art they ever did?
I bought that at the time. Am I right in thinking it's the shorter version of TiE without the "British boots" verse?
No, the version included on this issue includes that verse. I've never heard the 7" mix so maybe thats the one that drops it? It does seem to run a bit faster, tempo-wise, but there is no skipped verse.
I was sure my UK 12" was the same as the 7". Maybe not haven't played it in a very long time.

Oh wait no it's the same as the album version. Only the 7" drops the verse.

I just checked my remaster of the album I did earlier this year. And it's definitely only the 7" that's shorter.
Yeah, my mistake. I bought both so getting a bit confused. They excised the best verse for the 7" version.
There's a tiny, tiny hopeful part of me that says you guys are running a Kaufmanesque long con on the board

BostonBeaneater
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Re: The Clash observations thread.

Post by BostonBeaneater »

Marky Dread wrote:
27 Aug 2020, 5:58pm

Yep I agree. If they had returned all that time later it would've been terrible. They would've been better off forging ahead but not under "The Clash" name.
IkarisOne wrote:
27 Aug 2020, 5:52pm

It keeps it all where it belongs. Rock n Roll is about youth.

Someone offered free Killing Joke tickets last year and I refused. I told the guy, "I don't want to watch 60 year old guys playing metal." I saw the Psychedelic Furs a couple years back and they were great but the audience looked like all the gardening clubs in the area came to get their freak on. It got really unsettling when a couple 50-something soccer moms started doing their cheerleading routines to "Heartbreak Beat."

I saw the Pixies again, in 2017. It was the worst show that sold over 1000 tickets that I've ever seen. We left at maybe five songs in and I felt embarrassed to have attended.
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Re: The Clash observations thread.

Post by Chairman Ralph »

I saw the Pixies again, in 2017. It was the worst show that sold over 1000 tickets that I've ever seen. We left at maybe five songs in and I felt embarrassed to have attended.
Sounds like they're still sleepwalking for the dinner party set -- something the Clash never did, at least -- though this venue sounds like it was a notch down from that. Where did you see them, exactly?
One thing I've felt about the clash in recent years is that all that myth stuff has become irrelevant, or at least far less prominent than it was. I always remember whenever they came up in discussions, you'd get all this shit about joe the posh public school boy and the clash rebel posers among other stuff. I dont see that much anymore. I think it's the music and the message that endures and that, by any standard, is one formidable back catalogue. It's not that surprising to me that their stock should be so high right now, some of those songs were incredibly and almost eerily prescient.
I think people have gotten a bit savvier about that stuff than they used to be. At a certain point, the music either holds your interest, or it doesn't. And at the end of the day, it's either worth hearing again, over and over, or it isn't.

As time passes, my feeling is that bands -- whether they carry on, or don't -- become less about those four or five guys in a garage (quote-unquote), and more a body of work that either stands up, or it doesn't. The surrounding baggage becomes less important, and recedes into the background, as context that people will pick up on, or push aside, as they wish.

That's certainly true of the Clash, though I think their stock has grown because they largely avoided the sonic cliches of the era in which they existed, which allows subsequent generations to hear it with a fresh ear, and also, because their lyrics -- and topics -- stood head and shoulders above much of the fodder of late '70s and early '80s.

I mean, as a lyricist, Joe Strummer rarely addresses love and escapism, two of pop's biggest tropes -- which is one big reason why they grabbed me, and kept me, as a fan. And later on, as a musician, and then, as a biographer. Certainly, working on We Are The Clash with Mark reminded me of these things all over again, and got me thinking about why I gravitated to them to begin with.

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Re: The Clash observations thread.

Post by IkarisOne »

BostonBeaneater wrote:
27 Aug 2020, 9:41pm

I saw the Pixies again, in 2017. It was the worst show that sold over 1000 tickets that I've ever seen. We left at maybe five songs in and I felt embarrassed to have attended.

Grim. There's a certain kind of band that simply isn't built for the long haul.

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