Simmo's Bass Smash - Sep 20th or 21st?

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Re: Simmo's Bass Smash - Sep 20th or 21st?

Post by matedog » 13 Mar 2014, 12:56am

BR16ADE_R055E wrote:
matedog wrote:[youtube][/youtube]

At 1:30 there is a good shot of Paul. This video is from the 21st.
This was the other vid I checked, and yes, I can see at that mark that he's playing a different bass than the one he smashed. The one in this vid appears to have a checkerboard/ska-like design on the bottom of it..
I think it's the same bass:
Image
Image

I think the checkerboard is distortion at the bottom of the video. Check out the portion of the body (just below and to the left (our left) of his right hand) that's missing. It's the exact same on both. I'm not 100% though, that video is a bit rough.
Look, you have to establish context for these things. And I maintain that unless you appreciate the Fall of Constantinople, the Great Fire of London, and Mickey Mantle's fatalist alcoholism, live Freddy makes no sense. If you want to half-ass it, fine, go call Simon Schama to do the appendix.

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Re: Simmo's Bass Smash - Sep 20th or 21st?

Post by BR16ADE_R055E » 13 Mar 2014, 3:24am

matedog wrote:
BR16ADE_R055E wrote:
matedog wrote:[youtube][/youtube]

At 1:30 there is a good shot of Paul. This video is from the 21st.
This was the other vid I checked, and yes, I can see at that mark that he's playing a different bass than the one he smashed. The one in this vid appears to have a checkerboard/ska-like design on the bottom of it..
I think it's the same bass:
Image
Image

I think the checkerboard is distortion at the bottom of the video. Check out the portion of the body (just below and to the left (our left) of his right hand) that's missing. It's the exact same on both. I'm not 100% though, that video is a bit rough.
OK, but where's "PRESSURE"?

He had 2 Fender P Basses (unfortunately smashed the better one).

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Re: Simmo's Bass Smash - Sep 20th or 21st?

Post by biopunk » 13 Mar 2014, 8:13am

matedog wrote: I think it's the same bass:
Image


I think the checkerboard is distortion at the bottom of the video. Check out the portion of the body (just below and to the left (our left) of his right hand) that's missing. It's the exact same on both. I'm not 100% though, that video is a bit rough.
That is a different bass. Note the white pick-ups.

Image

Image

Image



"Paul" is scratched into it, not "Pressure" or "Positive".
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Re: Simmo's Bass Smash - Sep 20th or 21st?

Post by matedog » 13 Mar 2014, 10:11am

I stand corrected.
Look, you have to establish context for these things. And I maintain that unless you appreciate the Fall of Constantinople, the Great Fire of London, and Mickey Mantle's fatalist alcoholism, live Freddy makes no sense. If you want to half-ass it, fine, go call Simon Schama to do the appendix.

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Re: Simmo's Bass Smash - Sep 20th or 21st?

Post by IkarisOne » 13 Mar 2014, 11:04am

biopunk wrote:
Rat Patrol wrote:
BR16ADE_R055E wrote:
matedog wrote:I'll give the 1979-09-20 boot a spin and see if there are any audio clues. The radio broadcast from the 21st sounds chaotic enough towards the end of WR (and what sounds like the bass crapping out and weird clipping noises) that it seems likely to be the 21st. The interview immediately after doesn't discuss it, but perhaps it wasn't novel enough to be discussed.
I listened to the WNEW broadcast (21st) and can barely hear something that might be it, but I figure the smash sound would be more obvious. Yeah, the announcer guy doesn't even mention it...strange.
Paul is nearly inaudible on that atrociously mixed FM 'board. Somebody was twiddling too many knobs at the deck all night, because you can hear the entire bottom disappear and reappear throughout the set. And occasionally several times per song on some tracks like Wrong 'em Boyo. With Gluggo being mixed twice as loud as the rhythm section and the percussion occasionally whittled down to snare-only. It's a fucking mess of a broadcast, and there's no way they sounded that atrocious in real life.

WR has about 20 seconds of halfway-audible bass before the mixing deck monkey decided to turn Paul down to 1 and Gluggo up to a 9. When he stops playing at about 1:32 the only overt clue you get that there's only 2 guitars going is the mix suddenly seems even treblier...but without the volume changing on any of the other instruments like it had the whole rest of the night when the mixing knobs were over-fucked with. It's only from everything else sounding the same that you sort of delayed-realize that the bass has outright stopped. Then the audible *thunk*, which you wouldn't expect the vox mics to pic up in full glory on a tinny SBD. And then the death croaks of the smashed instrument sounding like a swarm of bubbles from a prodigious bathtub fart...again, because he was turned down so inaudibly to begin with.


I'm sure it sounded terrifying and very very impressive in real life. A hall-rattling *SMASH*, then everyone's eardrums in the theater getting blown out on the FoH. But unless WNEW has raw-feed multitracks in its possession to remix from scratch all of that got lost at the hands of coked-out mixing deck monkey.
Bastard mixing deck monkeys! :hmph:

Yes, the Wreckers! The Kulaks! Those damn Emmanuel Goldsteins forever sabotaging the pristine perfection of The Clash!

I bet it was a bunch of Nixon's ratfuckers! It had nothing to do with the Clash's inept onstage mixing! Joe was being pressured by Reagan's agents when he said the Clash had the dumbfuckingest onstage mix in the business. Either Reagan or Bernie. Same difference.

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Re: Simmo's Bass Smash - Sep 20th or 21st?

Post by Inder » 13 Mar 2014, 11:44am

If you listen closely, you can still hear Mick's echo/delay rattling around New York.

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Re: Simmo's Bass Smash - Sep 20th or 21st?

Post by Rat Patrol » 13 Mar 2014, 11:57am

IkarisOne wrote:
biopunk wrote:
Rat Patrol wrote:
BR16ADE_R055E wrote:
matedog wrote:I'll give the 1979-09-20 boot a spin and see if there are any audio clues. The radio broadcast from the 21st sounds chaotic enough towards the end of WR (and what sounds like the bass crapping out and weird clipping noises) that it seems likely to be the 21st. The interview immediately after doesn't discuss it, but perhaps it wasn't novel enough to be discussed.
I listened to the WNEW broadcast (21st) and can barely hear something that might be it, but I figure the smash sound would be more obvious. Yeah, the announcer guy doesn't even mention it...strange.
Paul is nearly inaudible on that atrociously mixed FM 'board. Somebody was twiddling too many knobs at the deck all night, because you can hear the entire bottom disappear and reappear throughout the set. And occasionally several times per song on some tracks like Wrong 'em Boyo. With Gluggo being mixed twice as loud as the rhythm section and the percussion occasionally whittled down to snare-only. It's a fucking mess of a broadcast, and there's no way they sounded that atrocious in real life.

WR has about 20 seconds of halfway-audible bass before the mixing deck monkey decided to turn Paul down to 1 and Gluggo up to a 9. When he stops playing at about 1:32 the only overt clue you get that there's only 2 guitars going is the mix suddenly seems even treblier...but without the volume changing on any of the other instruments like it had the whole rest of the night when the mixing knobs were over-fucked with. It's only from everything else sounding the same that you sort of delayed-realize that the bass has outright stopped. Then the audible *thunk*, which you wouldn't expect the vox mics to pic up in full glory on a tinny SBD. And then the death croaks of the smashed instrument sounding like a swarm of bubbles from a prodigious bathtub fart...again, because he was turned down so inaudibly to begin with.


I'm sure it sounded terrifying and very very impressive in real life. A hall-rattling *SMASH*, then everyone's eardrums in the theater getting blown out on the FoH. But unless WNEW has raw-feed multitracks in its possession to remix from scratch all of that got lost at the hands of coked-out mixing deck monkey.
Bastard mixing deck monkeys! :hmph:

Yes, the Wreckers! The Kulaks! Those damn Emmanuel Goldsteins forever sabotaging the pristine perfection of The Clash!

I bet it was a bunch of Nixon's ratfuckers! It had nothing to do with the Clash's inept onstage mixing! Joe was being pressured by Reagan's agents when he said the Clash had the dumbfuckingest onstage mix in the business. Either Reagan or Bernie. Same difference.
Or Mick. Or Combat Rock.


Or Obama. Or the Freemasons. Or Aliens. :shifty:
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Re: Simmo's Bass Smash - Sep 20th or 21st?

Post by IkarisOne » 13 Mar 2014, 12:19pm

"Before, we had a very loud stage sound, and Mick had the attitude of 'Stuff it, I'm having my guitar as loud as I want it.' So we lost control of the P.A. sound, and it was a mess"- Joe Strummer, Creem 1984

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Re: Simmo's Bass Smash - Sep 20th or 21st?

Post by Rat Patrol » 13 Mar 2014, 12:28pm

Because nothing says accuracy, honesty, and calm reflection like an '84 Joe interview.
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Re: Simmo's Bass Smash - Sep 20th or 21st?

Post by IkarisOne » 13 Mar 2014, 12:43pm

Rat Patrol wrote:Because nothing says accuracy, honesty, and calm reflection like an '84 Joe interview.
Yes, yes, yes, because it's always someone else's fault- never the Clash's. Always some working stiff trying to do his job. Once he dropped the phoney baloney act- which started at the US Fest- mid-1984 was the only time Joe spoke honestly, in my opinion. When I spoke to him he was very calm and humble, having got the Bernie bullshit out of his system.

Plus, Joe said the same thing again about the stage mix in 1988 to East Coast Rocker when he was trying to get back with Mick. Other instances that escape my recall at the moment.

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Re: Simmo's Bass Smash - Sep 20th or 21st?

Post by Rat Patrol » 13 Mar 2014, 1:07pm

IkarisOne wrote:
Rat Patrol wrote:Because nothing says accuracy, honesty, and calm reflection like an '84 Joe interview.
Yes, yes, yes, because it's always someone else's fault- never the Clash's. Always some working stiff trying to do his job. Once he dropped the phoney baloney act- which started at the US Fest- mid-1984 was the only time Joe spoke honestly, in my opinion. When I spoke to him he was very calm and humble, having got the Bernie bullshit out of his system.

Plus, Joe said the same thing again about the stage mix in 1988 to East Coast Rocker when he was trying to get back with Mick. Other instances that escape my recall at the moment.
Not true. I blame Mick Jones fully 98.5% of the time when the drive-thru window screws up my order. :rolleyes:
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Re: Simmo's Bass Smash - Sep 20th or 21st?

Post by BR16ADE_R055E » 13 Mar 2014, 10:27pm

So, the consensus is the 21st, yes?

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Re: Simmo's Bass Smash - Sep 20th or 21st?

Post by Rat Patrol » 13 Mar 2014, 10:56pm

BR16ADE_R055E wrote:So, the consensus is the 21st, yes?
9/21, buck-thirty plus into WR.


As for pinning the photographic evidence, don't forget they also played 4 shows in 4 consecutive nights: Boston - Palladium - Palladium - Philly. City/venue is probably accurate on most of the circulating pics, but that's a veritable minefield of "timeline is wrong" potential. Especially if going by wardrobe or what might've been scrawled on somebody's guitar that particular week.
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Re: Simmo's Bass Smash - Sep 20th or 21st?

Post by BR16ADE_R055E » 14 Mar 2014, 6:50pm

OK, I listened to "White Riot" on The Guns of Brixton (GDR CD 9001). I can hear something dropped @ 1:38, then something that sounds like Gluggo's organ, but I guess that's feedback from Simmo's doomed bass.

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Re: Simmo's Bass Smash - Sep 20th or 21st?

Post by biopunk » 15 Mar 2014, 5:05am

BR16ADE_R055E wrote:OK, I listened to "White Riot" on The Guns of Brixton (GDR CD 9001). I can hear something dropped @ 1:38, then something that sounds like Gluggo's organ, but I guess that's feedback from Simmo's doomed bass.
Would that be @ the 30:36 mark here?

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