Sold: Out Of Conrol- The Last Day's...

[Silent Majority]

Fantastic.

[Dr. Medulla]

Fantastic.

Looks like an outtake from the Sandinista "let's all dress up!" sessions.

[Rat Patrol]

I'm nearing the end, having taken breaks to do other non-Vince stuff. Much of it rings true—Joe's bipolar behaviour, Bernie's ham-fisted manipulation, Paul's withdrawal—but his reactions reek of the benefit of hindsight, the opportunity to reflect. Except he doesn't present it as such. One example that stands out is having Joe and Bernie talk about political correctness. Now, it's a term that's existed since the late 60s, mainly in New Left circles, but he uses it more along the lines of the 90s definition. So it's older Vince inserting himself into the mind of younger Vince. He also has an annoying tendency to switch from past to present tense (while clearly staying in the past), at times in the same paragraph, which is further suggestive of the hindsight thing.

It's not quite as much of a trainwreck as I expected, but in being agenda-driven and full of half-truths, he's earned his stripes to be part of the Clash story.

His lager misanthropy makes it more of a slog than it should be. He's a man without a sense of humour and that's very, very important in getting over shitty situations. My favourite part is Bernie's evaluation of Mick Jones, a sly, evil trickster.

Just finished up and agree with you. And now we finally know who wrecked the band—it was Pete all along! God how I want Bernie to release a memoir.

For a memoir, tho, he shows a an amazing capacity to not grow. He's a miserable asshole at the start and finishes the same way. Had a lot of sex and emerged with a low opinion of women. Says he doesn't care about money but sure bitches about not getting paid. Probably the most honest part is when Bernie or Kosmo or Joe are engaged in one of their ego-beating sessions and asking the new guys what they want in life. And Vince just wants to get laid. Can't help but think that that'd be the answer he'd still give.

"The Vince Problem" is addressed in the new documentary. That is, the man-child was cut from the wrong cloth to handle the rigors of what he was getting himself into with those personalities and wasn't emotionally resilient enough to roll with it. Pete and moreso Nick knew to some extent there was a game being played to test them. Vince just ambled around and let it wound him deeply every time he stepped in a pile of poo.

Nick has an excellent quote in the movie as to why Vince's hire was ultimately a mistake, and why his hire should've been an obvious warning sign that Bernie had lost all critical faculty to correctly size people up.

[Dr. Medulla]

"The Vince Problem" is addressed in the new documentary. That is, the man-child was cut from the wrong cloth to handle the rigors of what he was getting himself into with those personalities and wasn't emotionally resilient enough to roll with it. Pete and moreso Nick knew to some extent there was a game being played to test them. Vince just ambled around and let it wound him deeply every time he stepped in a pile of poo.

Nick has an excellent quote in the movie as to why Vince's hire was ultimately a mistake, and why his hire should've been an obvious warning sign that Bernie had lost all critical faculty to correctly size people up.

So there's no sense that he was brought in by Bernie and Joe *because* of his personality, to help the band get younger and meaner?

Side note: I think I have all the pieces of my collage. I have old man softball tonight (that is, I'm the old man on the team) but will assemble tomorrow. Unicorn Joe might have to be worked in, too …

[Rat Patrol]

"The Vince Problem" is addressed in the new documentary. That is, the man-child was cut from the wrong cloth to handle the rigors of what he was getting himself into with those personalities and wasn't emotionally resilient enough to roll with it. Pete and moreso Nick knew to some extent there was a game being played to test them. Vince just ambled around and let it wound him deeply every time he stepped in a pile of poo.

Nick has an excellent quote in the movie as to why Vince's hire was ultimately a mistake, and why his hire should've been an obvious warning sign that Bernie had lost all critical faculty to correctly size people up.

So there's no sense that he was brought in by Bernie and Joe *because* of his personality, to help the band get younger and meaner?

Side note: I think I have all the pieces of my collage. I have old man softball tonight (that is, I'm the old man on the team) but will assemble tomorrow. Unicorn Joe might have to be worked in, too …

[SPOILER ALERT]
























The exact quote was:

"The problem with hiring someone solely based on attitude is that you're bringing in his attitude, not the 'Attitude™' you thought you were getting."

[spelled where Nick was putting the verbal emphasis]


So, yeah: Spiky hair...check. Insulted the guy in line in front of him and says "cunt" and "fuck" a lot...check. Showed up kinda inebriated...check. Screamingly obvious daddy issues...check.

"My God: THAT MAN HAS ATTITUDE™®Ωꜛᵜª!!!!"

"Bernie...but shouldn't we see if he can play first?"

"Have him air guitar along to the first verse of Be Bop A Lula while being fitted for his bullet belt!!!"

[Dr. Medulla]

So Bernie was looking for a Johnny Rotten or Sid Vicious, but ended up with, well, Vince White. That's the thing I find so funny about all the accolades that McLaren and Bernie get/got for being masterminds of the original punk scene—they kept hammering at what they thought things should be like and as often as not fucked it up, with the successes achieved in spite of their machinations.

[Kory]

Thanks for making this available Doc and JB, I'll be reading this weekend and hopefully this convo won't be finished by the time I'm done...




SO, you should wait for me to finish.

[Heston]

I finally put the PDF on my phone, this is really painful to read second time around. I remember enjoying it when I first read it, but it's just non-stop moaning and bitching from the drunken fool.

Aside from some nice little insights into Clash II World, it's a contradictory, revisionist piece of fantasy nonsense from a troubled man.

[Dr. Medulla]

I finally put the PDF on my phone, this is really painful to read second time around. I remember enjoying it when I first read it, but it's just not stop moaning and bitching from the drunken fool.

Aside from some nice little insights into Clash II World, it's a contradictory, revisionist piece of fantasy nonsense from a troubled man.

The sad thing, I suppose, is that Vince is such a miserable prick that, even tho we all recognize he's troubled, I can't muster any sympathy for him.

[101Walterton]

So Bernie was looking for a Johnny Rotten or Sid Vicious, but ended up with, well, Vince White. That's the thing I find so funny about all the accolades that McLaren and Bernie get/got for being masterminds of the original punk scene—they kept hammering at what they thought things should be like and as often as not fucked it up, with the successes achieved in spite of their machinations.

Whilst I don't doubt Mclaren had some creative ideas and a plan of some sort, I am convinced his 'masterplan' was actually in hindsight after the great train wreck had happened. One of the main factors in the sequence of events was the antics of Rotten / Jones / Cook (Grundy show for example) not a pre planned move.

[Dr. Medulla]

So Bernie was looking for a Johnny Rotten or Sid Vicious, but ended up with, well, Vince White. That's the thing I find so funny about all the accolades that McLaren and Bernie get/got for being masterminds of the original punk scene—they kept hammering at what they thought things should be like and as often as not fucked it up, with the successes achieved in spite of their machinations.

Whilst I don't doubt Mclaren had some creative ideas and a plan of some sort, I am convinced his 'masterplan' was actually in hindsight after the great train wreck had happened. One of the main factors in the sequence of events was the antics of Rotten / Jones / Cook (Grundy show for example) not a pre planned move.

Partly true. McL's narrative emerged in the wake of the EMI/A&M debacles—the idea of an intentional swindle was born. But even after he came up with this and tried to manipulate events to further that storyline, things went to complete fuck because he couldn't control events or people. Like the consummate con man, however, he revised history to turn everything into something planned.

[101Walterton]

So Bernie was looking for a Johnny Rotten or Sid Vicious, but ended up with, well, Vince White. That's the thing I find so funny about all the accolades that McLaren and Bernie get/got for being masterminds of the original punk scene—they kept hammering at what they thought things should be like and as often as not fucked it up, with the successes achieved in spite of their machinations.

Whilst I don't doubt Mclaren had some creative ideas and a plan of some sort, I am convinced his 'masterplan' was actually in hindsight after the great train wreck had happened. One of the main factors in the sequence of events was the antics of Rotten / Jones / Cook (Grundy show for example) not a pre planned move.

Partly true. McL's narrative emerged in the wake of the EMI/A&M debacles—the idea of an intentional swindle was born. But even after he came up with this and tried to manipulate events to further that storyline, things went to complete fuck because he couldn't control events or people. Like the consummate con man, however, he revised history to turn everything into something planned.

Exactly.

[Kory]

Read a quote from the book that ties into something I was asking earlier here, Vince mentioning that it was "revealed" to him that Paul had only played on the first album. Wonder how true that is. He goes on to talk about Norman, so I wonder if he just got the S! story mixed up with the whole rest of the catalogue.

[Heston]

Read a quote from the book that ties into something I was asking earlier here, Vince mentioning that it was "revealed" to him that Paul had only played on the first album. Wonder how true that is. He goes on to talk about Norman, so I wonder if he just got the S! story mixed up with the whole rest of the catalogue.

Not true at all, as many witnesses have verified.

[Kory]

Read a quote from the book that ties into something I was asking earlier here, Vince mentioning that it was "revealed" to him that Paul had only played on the first album. Wonder how true that is. He goes on to talk about Norman, so I wonder if he just got the S! story mixed up with the whole rest of the catalogue.

Not true at all, as many witnesses have verified.

Psh. "Witnesses." Did they also witness Mick after hours overdubbing each bass part?