His cover of “Biko,” where he just laughs maniacally, was simultaneously in poor taste and high concept.Silent Majority wrote: ↑25 Apr 2018, 6:34amArt Garfunkel's Never End Apartheid was only well received in very specialist quarters.Low Down Low wrote: ↑25 Apr 2018, 3:39amI’ve always had some sympathy for Simon on this issue but at the same time have to ask myself whether I’d feel that way if Graceland wasn’t such a beautiful and remarkable record. It May well have been fundamentally wrong, for all of Simons obviously good intentions, but the thing is I can’t see any material evidence of what harm it did while the good that came out of it is much easier to quantify. That’s the major dilemma about it I feel.
The Dizzle and Jimmy Jizzle's Thread o'Bruce
- Dr. Medulla
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Re: The Dizzle and Jimmy Jizzle's Thread o'Bruce
"I used to bullseye womp rats in my T-16 back in Whittier, they're not much bigger than two meters.'" - Richard Nixon, Checkers Speech, abandoned early draft
Re: The Dizzle and Jimmy Jizzle's Thread o'Bruce
Did we miss the part where Paul Simon said they were all commies?
I feel that there is a fascistic element, for example, in the Rolling Stones . . .
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I've studied the phenomenon of neo-provincialism in self-isolating online communities but this place takes the fucking cake.
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Re: The Dizzle and Jimmy Jizzle's Thread o'Bruce
My initial reply was about that, but I should have been clearer. One thing that's odd about Simon's political antenna and friendship with Kissinger is that Simon and Garfunkel had a song called "Cuba Si, Nixon No," and that it was Garfunkel who refused to sing on it.
"I used to bullseye womp rats in my T-16 back in Whittier, they're not much bigger than two meters.'" - Richard Nixon, Checkers Speech, abandoned early draft
Re: The Dizzle and Jimmy Jizzle's Thread o'Bruce
I don't disagree that SVZ came across a lot better in his version of things, I just don't really understand the idea of a cultural boycott and I don't see how Graceland did anything to hurt the cause.Silent Majority wrote: ↑25 Apr 2018, 6:39amBoth were wrong, but Van Zandt was less wrong and involved in the ground, took pains to educate himself, and comes out of the situation with much more credibility. I really respect Little Stevie.matedog wrote: ↑25 Apr 2018, 12:27amSo Paul Simon was right and SVZ was wrong?Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑24 Apr 2018, 6:44pmThat was the nut of the whole thing. It bound up opposition to a state system of oppression with everything within that state. It was well meaning but poorly laid out so that the boycott hurt the people it was meant to help.matedog wrote: ↑24 Apr 2018, 6:34pmI obviously don't know enough about the situation, but I don't really understand how a "cultural boycott" works. It seems like it would have an adverse effect on black South Africans and that Graceland not only paid the performers (some even got songwriting credits), but it helped expose that culture to a larger audience (via a watered down white performer, sure, but still). I don't see how it perpetuated or exploited apartheid.eumaas wrote: ↑24 Apr 2018, 12:36pmI thought this was real interesting:
https://africasacountry.com/2014/01/whe ... n-mandela/
Look, you have to establish context for these things. And I maintain that unless you appreciate the Fall of Constantinople, the Great Fire of London, and Mickey Mantle's fatalist alcoholism, live Freddy makes no sense. If you want to half-ass it, fine, go call Simon Schama to do the appendix.
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Re: The Dizzle and Jimmy Jizzle's Thread o'Bruce
Without deeply litigating the specific boycott here (I don't feel educated enough to argue in detail about it), this is basically how collective action works. You get everyone to do the same thing and stigmatize individual breakaways because, well, enough people decide "my own actions don't make a difference" and you've eroded the effectiveness of the boycott, strike, etc.
I will, tentatively, say that my understanding is the various boycotts of S. Africa enjoyed popular support in South Africa from the majority black population, so I don't necessarily view it in the same bucket of some of the more ill-conceived boycotts that end up being mostly harmful to the marginalized people they're trying to help. Happy to be corrected by folks who know more, however.
Addendum: Also, as eumaas points out, Paul Simon's anti-communist talk shows where his head was really at in all this.
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Re: The Dizzle and Jimmy Jizzle's Thread o'Bruce
how can a wealthy white guy like Simon look at the struggle for liberation in Soweto and get overly concerned about the USSR in the eighties? Unforgivably blinkered.Flex wrote: ↑25 Apr 2018, 10:49amWithout deeply litigating the specific boycott here (I don't feel educated enough to argue in detail about it), this is basically how collective action works. You get everyone to do the same thing and stigmatize individual breakaways because, well, enough people decide "my own actions don't make a difference" and you've eroded the effectiveness of the boycott, strike, etc.
I will, tentatively, say that my understanding is the various boycotts of S. Africa enjoyed popular support in South Africa from the majority black population, so I don't necessarily view it in the same bucket of some of the more ill-conceived boycotts that end up being mostly harmful to the marginalized people they're trying to help. Happy to be corrected by folks who know more, however.
Addendum: Also, as eumaas points out, Paul Simon's anti-communist talk shows where his head was really at in all this.
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Re: The Dizzle and Jimmy Jizzle's Thread o'Bruce
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"But the gorilla thinks otherwise!"
Re: The Dizzle and Jimmy Jizzle's Thread o'Bruce
John Mellencamp's Top Five:
1. Hurt's So Good (When I'm Whippin' Slaves)
2. Colored Houses
3. I Was Born in a Small Town with a Large Klan Prescence
4. Get a Leg Up, Boy
5. I Need a Lover (Who Won't be a Negro)
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Re: The Dizzle and Jimmy Jizzle's Thread o'Bruce
extremely lol
Wiggle, wiggle, wiggle like a bowl of soup
Wiggle, wiggle, wiggle like a rolling hoop
Wiggle, wiggle, wiggle like a ton of lead
Wiggle - you can raise the dead
Pex Lives!
Wiggle, wiggle, wiggle like a rolling hoop
Wiggle, wiggle, wiggle like a ton of lead
Wiggle - you can raise the dead
Pex Lives!
Re: The Dizzle and Jimmy Jizzle's Thread o'Bruce
Hello,Flex wrote: ↑25 Apr 2018, 10:49amWithout deeply litigating the specific boycott here (I don't feel educated enough to argue in detail about it), this is basically how collective action works. You get everyone to do the same thing and stigmatize individual breakaways because, well, enough people decide "my own actions don't make a difference" and you've eroded the effectiveness of the boycott, strike, etc.
I will, tentatively, say that my understanding is the various boycotts of S. Africa enjoyed popular support in South Africa from the majority black population, so I don't necessarily view it in the same bucket of some of the more ill-conceived boycotts that end up being mostly harmful to the marginalized people they're trying to help. Happy to be corrected by folks who know more, however.
Addendum: Also, as eumaas points out, Paul Simon's anti-communist talk shows where his head was really at in all this.
I can only speak for my wife who grew up under apartheid. Her family was relocated from Soweto to just outside Polokwane (the former Pietersburg). The feelings she expressed was an appreciation for South African music getting out to the world (as Azanians are tremendously proud people). I think her family felt it wasn't the most effective tactic but they appreciated the effort in terms of raising awareness. A political measure may have been more effective in terms of immediacy but how many would have learned anything about South Africa because of it? I'm cautious to speak on her behalf because I've learned anyone who has not experienced apartheid cannot truly understand - be careful as most would resent someone "understanding" how terrible it was.
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Re: The Dizzle and Jimmy Jizzle's Thread o'Bruce
https://www.rollingstone.com/music/musi ... ut-701084/
Physicists' quest for a schlock gravitational singularity hits a new breakthrough.
Physicists' quest for a schlock gravitational singularity hits a new breakthrough.
Re: The Dizzle and Jimmy Jizzle's Thread o'Bruce
To make matters worseRat Patrol wrote: ↑19 Jul 2018, 10:13amhttps://www.rollingstone.com/music/musi ... ut-701084/
Physicists' quest for a schlock gravitational singularity hits a new breakthrough.
Joel also recently welcomed surprise guests Foreigner’s Lou Gramm and Mick Jones onstage to perform “Urgent” and “Cold as Ice.”
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Re: The Dizzle and Jimmy Jizzle's Thread o'Bruce
Hey, Dante, we got a new circle to add to the Inferno and this one's a doozy.revbob wrote: ↑19 Jul 2018, 4:35pmTo make matters worseRat Patrol wrote: ↑19 Jul 2018, 10:13amhttps://www.rollingstone.com/music/musi ... ut-701084/
Physicists' quest for a schlock gravitational singularity hits a new breakthrough.
Joel also recently welcomed surprise guests Foreigner’s Lou Gramm and Mick Jones onstage to perform “Urgent” and “Cold as Ice.”
"I used to bullseye womp rats in my T-16 back in Whittier, they're not much bigger than two meters.'" - Richard Nixon, Checkers Speech, abandoned early draft
Re: The Dizzle and Jimmy Jizzle's Thread o'Bruce
You know hardly a person in that crowd wasn't eating that up.Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑19 Jul 2018, 4:40pmHey, Dante, we got a new circle to add to the Inferno and this one's a doozy.revbob wrote: ↑19 Jul 2018, 4:35pmTo make matters worseRat Patrol wrote: ↑19 Jul 2018, 10:13amhttps://www.rollingstone.com/music/musi ... ut-701084/
Physicists' quest for a schlock gravitational singularity hits a new breakthrough.
Joel also recently welcomed surprise guests Foreigner’s Lou Gramm and Mick Jones onstage to perform “Urgent” and “Cold as Ice.”