Music opinion/question of the week...

General music discussion.
Marky Dread
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Re: Music opinion/question of the week...

Post by Marky Dread »

Heston wrote:
29 Jan 2019, 12:29pm
The singer of From the Jam can perform the Jam hits better than Weller can these days. Hearing Weller's slow, lethargic takes on stuff like Eton Rifles just depresses me.
I agree with the above. I mean Weller has every right to sing the stuff he wrote and it whatever style he likes. But if you're going to sing an old song then it better done as it was originally intended. It's like Weller covers his own material and 90% of the time ruins it.
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Re: Music opinion/question of the week...

Post by Wolter »

Marky Dread wrote:
29 Jan 2019, 12:18pm
WestwayKid wrote:
29 Jan 2019, 11:43am
JennyB wrote:
29 Jan 2019, 11:14am
I think it's much harder for it to feel like the real band if the lead singer isn't there.
Yup - loss of the lead singer is hard to overcome for me. I think the biggest offenders seem to be the bands that frequent state fair stages across the United States: Survivor and so on. I think what "saves" bands like that is that a lot of people who see them live have no idea who is original or not. They know the hit songs and as long as they hear Eye of the Tiger and The Search Is Over - they're happy.
Sometimes the band carries on like The Stranglers who are on their third lead singer and they still make good records. The thing is with bassist JJ Burnel also singing on some tracks it's like having two vocalists.
The same can be said for the Buzzcocks with Diggle singing a handful of tracks and it wouldn't be Pete Shelley but I'm sure Steve Diggle could sing those songs and would have a right to do so as opposed to getting another singer. Lest not forget Shelley wasn't the original singer.
I think it's better when an original member of a band takes over as you can still identify with that person. Sometimes replacement singers are ok. The Undertones carried on with a new singer when they reformed and hey it's not feargal but he does a decent job.
I also tend to use the rule over 50% of the classic lineup to maintain credibility. A band tends to be unequivocally the same band as long as at you don’t go below less than half of that lineup.

For example a three piece can lose one member from the universally agreed upon classic lineup and still maintain cred. A four-piece gets dodgy when it loses two, unless the songwriting and sound isn’t affected greatly. This is why the Clash II is so controversial. It straddles the cred line, but Mick’s contributions were so great most people reject it out of hand. And so on.

This is obviously a rule of thumb, not a hard fast rule. Like, if CCR reformed today with a new rhythm section, it would probably be fine.

For example
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Marky Dread
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Re: Music opinion/question of the week...

Post by Marky Dread »

Wolter wrote:
29 Jan 2019, 12:36pm
Marky Dread wrote:
29 Jan 2019, 12:18pm
WestwayKid wrote:
29 Jan 2019, 11:43am
JennyB wrote:
29 Jan 2019, 11:14am
I think it's much harder for it to feel like the real band if the lead singer isn't there.
Yup - loss of the lead singer is hard to overcome for me. I think the biggest offenders seem to be the bands that frequent state fair stages across the United States: Survivor and so on. I think what "saves" bands like that is that a lot of people who see them live have no idea who is original or not. They know the hit songs and as long as they hear Eye of the Tiger and The Search Is Over - they're happy.
Sometimes the band carries on like The Stranglers who are on their third lead singer and they still make good records. The thing is with bassist JJ Burnel also singing on some tracks it's like having two vocalists.
The same can be said for the Buzzcocks with Diggle singing a handful of tracks and it wouldn't be Pete Shelley but I'm sure Steve Diggle could sing those songs and would have a right to do so as opposed to getting another singer. Lest not forget Shelley wasn't the original singer.
I think it's better when an original member of a band takes over as you can still identify with that person. Sometimes replacement singers are ok. The Undertones carried on with a new singer when they reformed and hey it's not feargal but he does a decent job.
I also tend to use the rule over 50% of the classic lineup to maintain credibility. A band tends to be unequivocally the same band as long as at you don’t go below less than half of that lineup.

For example a three piece can lose one member from the universally agreed upon classic lineup and still maintain cred. A four-piece gets dodgy when it loses two, unless the songwriting and sound isn’t affected greatly. This is why the Clash II is so controversial. It straddles the cred line, but Mick’s contributions were so great most people reject it out of hand. And so on.

This is obviously a rule of thumb, not a hard fast rule. Like, if CCR reformed today with a new rhythm section, it would probably be fine.

For example
Yup this just about sums up how I feel also.

I suppose one question would be is it better to carry on or form a new band that still plays the old material? I guess a name can sell out a show.
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Forces have been looting
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We're the flowers in the dustbin...
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Dr. Medulla
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Re: Music opinion/question of the week...

Post by Dr. Medulla »

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Re: Music opinion/question of the week...

Post by WestwayKid »

I like how New Order handled it. They carried on as a "new" band following Ian Curtis' death and established their own legacy before playing Joy Division songs again.
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Re: Music opinion/question of the week...

Post by Dr. Medulla »

WestwayKid wrote:
29 Jan 2019, 1:42pm
I like how New Order handled it. They carried on as a "new" band following Ian Curtis' death and established their own legacy before playing Joy Division songs again.
I find them still trading under the New Order brand with Hooky out is a bit unseemly. His bass sound is so clearly part of the NO thing that his absence just ain't right. Even tho that album w/o him was pretty good.
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Re: Music opinion/question of the week...

Post by JennyB »

Dr. Medulla wrote:
29 Jan 2019, 1:35pm
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i just heard the original VH was reuniting, so now I am going to be stuck going to a VH concert.
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Re: Music opinion/question of the week...

Post by Kory »

Wolter wrote:
29 Jan 2019, 12:36pm
Marky Dread wrote:
29 Jan 2019, 12:18pm
WestwayKid wrote:
29 Jan 2019, 11:43am
JennyB wrote:
29 Jan 2019, 11:14am
I think it's much harder for it to feel like the real band if the lead singer isn't there.
Yup - loss of the lead singer is hard to overcome for me. I think the biggest offenders seem to be the bands that frequent state fair stages across the United States: Survivor and so on. I think what "saves" bands like that is that a lot of people who see them live have no idea who is original or not. They know the hit songs and as long as they hear Eye of the Tiger and The Search Is Over - they're happy.
Sometimes the band carries on like The Stranglers who are on their third lead singer and they still make good records. The thing is with bassist JJ Burnel also singing on some tracks it's like having two vocalists.
The same can be said for the Buzzcocks with Diggle singing a handful of tracks and it wouldn't be Pete Shelley but I'm sure Steve Diggle could sing those songs and would have a right to do so as opposed to getting another singer. Lest not forget Shelley wasn't the original singer.
I think it's better when an original member of a band takes over as you can still identify with that person. Sometimes replacement singers are ok. The Undertones carried on with a new singer when they reformed and hey it's not feargal but he does a decent job.
I also tend to use the rule over 50% of the classic lineup to maintain credibility. A band tends to be unequivocally the same band as long as at you don’t go below less than half of that lineup.

For example a three piece can lose one member from the universally agreed upon classic lineup and still maintain cred. A four-piece gets dodgy when it loses two, unless the songwriting and sound isn’t affected greatly. This is why the Clash II is so controversial. It straddles the cred line, but Mick’s contributions were so great most people reject it out of hand. And so on.

This is obviously a rule of thumb, not a hard fast rule. Like, if CCR reformed today with a new rhythm section, it would probably be fine.

For example
I have a similar rule, but I'm more strict about it. 50% usually isn't enough for me.
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Re: Music opinion/question of the week...

Post by Dr. Medulla »

JennyB wrote:
29 Jan 2019, 1:51pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
29 Jan 2019, 1:35pm
Image
Offered with no comment whatsoever.
i just heard the original VH was reuniting, so now I am going to be stuck going to a VH concert.
For better and for worse.
"I never doubted myself for a minute for I knew that my monkey-strong bowels were girded with strength, like the loins of a dragon ribboned with fat and the opulence of buffalo dung." - Richard Nixon, Checkers Speech, abandoned early draft

Marky Dread
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Re: Music opinion/question of the week...

Post by Marky Dread »

Dr. Medulla wrote:
29 Jan 2019, 1:35pm
Image
Offered with no comment whatsoever.
Van Salem.
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Forces have been looting
My humanity
Curfews have been curbing
The end of liberty


We're the flowers in the dustbin...
No fuchsias for you.

"Without the common people you're nothing"

Nos Sumus Una Familia

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Re: Music opinion/question of the week...

Post by JennyB »

Dr. Medulla wrote:
29 Jan 2019, 2:22pm
JennyB wrote:
29 Jan 2019, 1:51pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
29 Jan 2019, 1:35pm
Image
Offered with no comment whatsoever.
i just heard the original VH was reuniting, so now I am going to be stuck going to a VH concert.
For better and for worse.
Heeee!
Got a Rake? Sure!

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Re: Music opinion/question of the week...

Post by 101Walterton »

It is an interesting debate and I don’t have an answer other than personal preference which isn’t consistent.
I believe no Mick no Clash. I think Mick was too integral to all that was good about the Clash, their point of difference.
But my view of the Specials isn’t consistent. The 6 of the original line up (not including Rico / Dick) sounded the same without Jerry although he was all over the songs they played but I considered them the Specials. There were other releases under the Specials name I don’t consider to be the Specials (without Terry singing) and now they have a new album I do consider to be the Specials (kind of / just) even though there are only 3 of them.
Can’t justify my inconsistency it is what it is.

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Re: Music opinion/question of the week...

Post by Marky Dread »

101Walterton wrote:
29 Jan 2019, 2:34pm
It is an interesting debate and I don’t have an answer other than personal preference which isn’t consistent.
I believe no Mick no Clash. I think Mick was too integral to all that was good about the Clash, their point of difference.
But my view of the Specials isn’t consistent. The 6 of the original line up (not including Rico / Dick) sounded the same without Jerry although he was all over the songs they played but I considered them the Specials. There were other releases under the Specials name I don’t consider to be the Specials (without Terry singing) and now they have a new album I do consider to be the Specials (kind of / just) even though there are only 3 of them.
Can’t justify my inconsistency it is what it is.
...a clue.
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Image

Forces have been looting
My humanity
Curfews have been curbing
The end of liberty


We're the flowers in the dustbin...
No fuchsias for you.

"Without the common people you're nothing"

Nos Sumus Una Familia

101Walterton
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Re: Music opinion/question of the week...

Post by 101Walterton »

Marky Dread wrote:
29 Jan 2019, 2:37pm
101Walterton wrote:
29 Jan 2019, 2:34pm
It is an interesting debate and I don’t have an answer other than personal preference which isn’t consistent.
I believe no Mick no Clash. I think Mick was too integral to all that was good about the Clash, their point of difference.
But my view of the Specials isn’t consistent. The 6 of the original line up (not including Rico / Dick) sounded the same without Jerry although he was all over the songs they played but I considered them the Specials. There were other releases under the Specials name I don’t consider to be the Specials (without Terry singing) and now they have a new album I do consider to be the Specials (kind of / just) even though there are only 3 of them.
Can’t justify my inconsistency it is what it is.
...a clue.
Image
Haha yes I tend to go with the singer side of the argument. You can play the same piano notes or guitar chords but you can’t sing someone else’s voice.

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Re: Music opinion/question of the week...

Post by Marky Dread »

101Walterton wrote:
29 Jan 2019, 2:39pm
Marky Dread wrote:
29 Jan 2019, 2:37pm
101Walterton wrote:
29 Jan 2019, 2:34pm
It is an interesting debate and I don’t have an answer other than personal preference which isn’t consistent.
I believe no Mick no Clash. I think Mick was too integral to all that was good about the Clash, their point of difference.
But my view of the Specials isn’t consistent. The 6 of the original line up (not including Rico / Dick) sounded the same without Jerry although he was all over the songs they played but I considered them the Specials. There were other releases under the Specials name I don’t consider to be the Specials (without Terry singing) and now they have a new album I do consider to be the Specials (kind of / just) even though there are only 3 of them.
Can’t justify my inconsistency it is what it is.
...a clue.
Image
Haha yes I tend to go with the singer side of the argument. You can play the same piano notes or guitar chords but you can’t sing someone else’s voice.
Apparently you can.
Image

Forces have been looting
My humanity
Curfews have been curbing
The end of liberty


We're the flowers in the dustbin...
No fuchsias for you.

"Without the common people you're nothing"

Nos Sumus Una Familia

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