Hey limeys

Politics and other such topical creams.
Dr. Medulla
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Re: Hey limeys

Post by Dr. Medulla »

JennyB wrote:
22 Feb 2019, 3:41pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
22 Feb 2019, 12:47pm
JennyB wrote:
22 Feb 2019, 12:43pm
I would imagine reality is somewhere in the middle. But again, my relatives, who have been longtime lefties, are scared. I wish people would listen to them.
What's the nature of the fear? That is, what do they think Corbyn would do? (I'm not asking in a snarky way; genuine curiosity.)
It's not Corbyn, per se. They feel, much like we do here in the states with Trump, that he has fostered an environment that makes it OK for people to come out of the woodwork and spew their hatred. According to the Guardian, there were 1,382 hate incidents and 34% rise in violent assaults against Jewish people in 2017. But people tend to not take antisemitism seriously because they see it as "punching up" and they often use the Israel excuse to back it up. But I would venture to guess that many people aren't necessarily as pro-Palestinian as they are anti-Jewish. I am the last person to claim antisemitism when someone criticizes Israel. But a lot of people hide behind that. And sometimes I feel that we are not allowed to determine what WE think is antisemitism.
Okay, I see. I'd like to think that it's sloppy thinking at work most of the time—conflating the actions of hard right Israeli politicians with Jews as a people—but even so inflamed discourse does encourage more and more ugly talk and behaviour. There's an old story about JFK talking about the dangers of adding US troops in Vietnam. He compared it to taking a drink. Yeah, one drink is fine, but then the effect wears off so you take another, and so on and so, each drink getting stronger. Soon you're an alcoholic. Opposing Israel's policies w/r/t Palestinians encourages more and more extreme rhetoric until, hey, look at that, you're engaged in anti-Semitism, if not an actual anti-Semite. Mix that with an environment more generally that encourages harsh talk and behaviour towards all kinds of Others. The demands on governing yourself only grow as the environment gets worse.

Your last comment speaks to the difficulty of perspective and, for lack of a better word, literacy. One group is better versed at picking up cues and dog whistles that other might not, giving them extra insight as to the nature of discourse that the general population misses. At the same time, sometimes that leads to over-sensitivity, missing out on cues understood better by other groups, and reaching the wrong conclusion. Appreciating that we have advantages and disadvantages in our perceptions is always wise, but, again, inflamed rhetoric encourages people to tune others out and seek confirmation of our inclinations, no matter what they are.
"I never doubted myself for a minute for I knew that my monkey-strong bowels were girded with strength, like the loins of a dragon ribboned with fat and the opulence of buffalo dung." - Richard Nixon, Checkers Speech, abandoned early draft

Marky Dread
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Re: Hey limeys

Post by Marky Dread »

Dr. Medulla wrote:
22 Feb 2019, 4:12pm
JennyB wrote:
22 Feb 2019, 3:41pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
22 Feb 2019, 12:47pm
JennyB wrote:
22 Feb 2019, 12:43pm
I would imagine reality is somewhere in the middle. But again, my relatives, who have been longtime lefties, are scared. I wish people would listen to them.
What's the nature of the fear? That is, what do they think Corbyn would do? (I'm not asking in a snarky way; genuine curiosity.)
It's not Corbyn, per se. They feel, much like we do here in the states with Trump, that he has fostered an environment that makes it OK for people to come out of the woodwork and spew their hatred. According to the Guardian, there were 1,382 hate incidents and 34% rise in violent assaults against Jewish people in 2017. But people tend to not take antisemitism seriously because they see it as "punching up" and they often use the Israel excuse to back it up. But I would venture to guess that many people aren't necessarily as pro-Palestinian as they are anti-Jewish. I am the last person to claim antisemitism when someone criticizes Israel. But a lot of people hide behind that. And sometimes I feel that we are not allowed to determine what WE think is antisemitism.
Okay, I see. I'd like to think that it's sloppy thinking at work most of the time—conflating the actions of hard right Israeli politicians with Jews as a people—but even so inflamed discourse does encourage more and more ugly talk and behaviour. There's an old story about JFK talking about the dangers of adding US troops in Vietnam. He compared it to taking a drink. Yeah, one drink is fine, but then the effect wears off so you take another, and so on and so, each drink getting stronger. Soon you're an alcoholic. Opposing Israel's policies w/r/t Palestinians encourages more and more extreme rhetoric until, hey, look at that, you're engaged in anti-Semitism, if not an actual anti-Semite. Mix that with an environment more generally that encourages harsh talk and behaviour towards all kinds of Others. The demands on governing yourself only grow as the environment gets worse.

Your last comment speaks to the difficulty of perspective and, for lack of a better word, literacy. One group is better versed at picking up cues and dog whistles that other might not, giving them extra insight as to the nature of discourse that the general population misses. At the same time, sometimes that leads to over-sensitivity, missing out on cues understood better by other groups, and reaching the wrong conclusion. Appreciating that we have advantages and disadvantages in our perceptions is always wise, but, again, inflamed rhetoric encourages people to tune others out and seek confirmation of our inclinations, no matter what they are.
There are those that are well read and well versed on the rhetoric. Those whose intelligence allows them to know better and act accordingly. Then there are those who simply see hatred over colour/class/creed without any thought process and act. Both are incredibly dangerous and sometimes intelligence and ignorance walk hand in hand.
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Forces have been looting
My humanity
Curfews have been curbing
The end of liberty


We're the flowers in the dustbin...
No fuchsias for you.

"Without the common people you're nothing"

Nos Sumus Una Familia

Dr. Medulla
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Re: Hey limeys

Post by Dr. Medulla »

So, who's going to be the next Tory leader to spend their days looking for rakes to step on?
"I never doubted myself for a minute for I knew that my monkey-strong bowels were girded with strength, like the loins of a dragon ribboned with fat and the opulence of buffalo dung." - Richard Nixon, Checkers Speech, abandoned early draft

BitterTom
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Re: Hey limeys

Post by BitterTom »

The Boris team are out in force,

"Good old Boris, says it how it is, proper lad, get the job done BoJo you absolute weapon, you are mint!"

Urgh.

Marky Dread
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Re: Hey limeys

Post by Marky Dread »

Dr. Medulla wrote:
24 May 2019, 6:48am
So, who's going to be the next Tory leader to spend their days looking for rakes to step on?
Morrissey
Image

Forces have been looting
My humanity
Curfews have been curbing
The end of liberty


We're the flowers in the dustbin...
No fuchsias for you.

"Without the common people you're nothing"

Nos Sumus Una Familia

Dr. Medulla
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Re: Hey limeys

Post by Dr. Medulla »

Marky Dread wrote:
24 May 2019, 6:52am
Dr. Medulla wrote:
24 May 2019, 6:48am
So, who's going to be the next Tory leader to spend their days looking for rakes to step on?
Morrissey
The number of canceled votes would be impressive.
"I never doubted myself for a minute for I knew that my monkey-strong bowels were girded with strength, like the loins of a dragon ribboned with fat and the opulence of buffalo dung." - Richard Nixon, Checkers Speech, abandoned early draft

Silent Majority
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Re: Hey limeys

Post by Silent Majority »

Silent Majority wrote:
11 Jul 2016, 9:43am
So we got Theresa May God have mercy on us all.
11th July 2016.
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Is ten times worse than prison


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Dr. Medulla
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Re: Hey limeys

Post by Dr. Medulla »

Silent Majority wrote:
24 May 2019, 10:51am
Silent Majority wrote:
11 Jul 2016, 9:43am
So we got Theresa May God have mercy on us all.
11th July 2016.
Later that day, tho:
Silent Majority wrote:
11 Jul 2016, 10:47am
She'll also have the vital support of her whole party which will put her on great footing whenever she deigns to call a general election in comparison to Labour which mostly exists as a body dedicated to undermining Corbyn
It wasn't silly to believe that, but it's amusing to see how she's since steered that party into complete disarray, bleeding support to both the LibDems and UKIP.
"I never doubted myself for a minute for I knew that my monkey-strong bowels were girded with strength, like the loins of a dragon ribboned with fat and the opulence of buffalo dung." - Richard Nixon, Checkers Speech, abandoned early draft

Silent Majority
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Re: Hey limeys

Post by Silent Majority »

Dr. Medulla wrote:
24 May 2019, 11:44am
Silent Majority wrote:
24 May 2019, 10:51am
Silent Majority wrote:
11 Jul 2016, 9:43am
So we got Theresa May God have mercy on us all.
11th July 2016.
Later that day, tho:
Silent Majority wrote:
11 Jul 2016, 10:47am
She'll also have the vital support of her whole party which will put her on great footing whenever she deigns to call a general election in comparison to Labour which mostly exists as a body dedicated to undermining Corbyn
It wasn't silly to believe that, but it's amusing to see how she's since steered that party into complete disarray, bleeding support to both the LibDems and UKIP.
It was that hubris electrion that finished her. Corbyn's focus on building a movement which carried more power than his Blairite foes could get near pierced her reputation for competence. Which turned out to be built on sand.
a lifetime serving one machine
Is ten times worse than prison


www.pexlives.libsyn.com/

Dr. Medulla
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Re: Hey limeys

Post by Dr. Medulla »

Silent Majority wrote:
24 May 2019, 11:58am
Dr. Medulla wrote:
24 May 2019, 11:44am
Silent Majority wrote:
24 May 2019, 10:51am
Silent Majority wrote:
11 Jul 2016, 9:43am
So we got Theresa May God have mercy on us all.
11th July 2016.
Later that day, tho:
Silent Majority wrote:
11 Jul 2016, 10:47am
She'll also have the vital support of her whole party which will put her on great footing whenever she deigns to call a general election in comparison to Labour which mostly exists as a body dedicated to undermining Corbyn
It wasn't silly to believe that, but it's amusing to see how she's since steered that party into complete disarray, bleeding support to both the LibDems and UKIP.
It was that hubris electrion that finished her. Corbyn's focus on building a movement which carried more power than his Blairite foes could get near pierced her reputation for competence. Which turned out to be built on sand.
Right. Mixed with the ambiguity in the first place of what voting for Brexit even means. The vagueness of the question and campaign was a delayed poison pill for the real political work thereafter. Quebec's separatists here were similarly criticized for writing a rather ambiguous referendum question. It may have made it easier to gain a majority (tho they didn't) but the work afterwards would have been plagued with competing interpretations of what it all meant. Scotland's referendum question, as I recall, was praised for its clarity.
"I never doubted myself for a minute for I knew that my monkey-strong bowels were girded with strength, like the loins of a dragon ribboned with fat and the opulence of buffalo dung." - Richard Nixon, Checkers Speech, abandoned early draft

Silent Majority
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Re: Hey limeys

Post by Silent Majority »

Dr. Medulla wrote:
24 May 2019, 12:03pm
Silent Majority wrote:
24 May 2019, 11:58am
Dr. Medulla wrote:
24 May 2019, 11:44am
Silent Majority wrote:
24 May 2019, 10:51am
Silent Majority wrote:
11 Jul 2016, 9:43am
So we got Theresa May God have mercy on us all.
11th July 2016.
Later that day, tho:
Silent Majority wrote:
11 Jul 2016, 10:47am
She'll also have the vital support of her whole party which will put her on great footing whenever she deigns to call a general election in comparison to Labour which mostly exists as a body dedicated to undermining Corbyn
It wasn't silly to believe that, but it's amusing to see how she's since steered that party into complete disarray, bleeding support to both the LibDems and UKIP.
It was that hubris electrion that finished her. Corbyn's focus on building a movement which carried more power than his Blairite foes could get near pierced her reputation for competence. Which turned out to be built on sand.
Right. Mixed with the ambiguity in the first place of what voting for Brexit even means. The vagueness of the question and campaign was a delayed poison pill for the real political work thereafter. Quebec's separatists here were similarly criticized for writing a rather ambiguous referendum question. It may have made it easier to gain a majority (tho they didn't) but the work afterwards would have been plagued with competing interpretations of what it all meant. Scotland's referendum question, as I recall, was praised for its clarity.
I'll give Cameron this much credit. He saw the wisdom of running quickly away yelling "Fuck this!" when faced with the job of doing Brexit.
a lifetime serving one machine
Is ten times worse than prison


www.pexlives.libsyn.com/

Dr. Medulla
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Re: Hey limeys

Post by Dr. Medulla »

Silent Majority wrote:
24 May 2019, 12:35pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
24 May 2019, 12:03pm
Silent Majority wrote:
24 May 2019, 11:58am
Dr. Medulla wrote:
24 May 2019, 11:44am
Silent Majority wrote:
24 May 2019, 10:51am


11th July 2016.
Later that day, tho:
Silent Majority wrote:
11 Jul 2016, 10:47am
She'll also have the vital support of her whole party which will put her on great footing whenever she deigns to call a general election in comparison to Labour which mostly exists as a body dedicated to undermining Corbyn
It wasn't silly to believe that, but it's amusing to see how she's since steered that party into complete disarray, bleeding support to both the LibDems and UKIP.
It was that hubris electrion that finished her. Corbyn's focus on building a movement which carried more power than his Blairite foes could get near pierced her reputation for competence. Which turned out to be built on sand.
Right. Mixed with the ambiguity in the first place of what voting for Brexit even means. The vagueness of the question and campaign was a delayed poison pill for the real political work thereafter. Quebec's separatists here were similarly criticized for writing a rather ambiguous referendum question. It may have made it easier to gain a majority (tho they didn't) but the work afterwards would have been plagued with competing interpretations of what it all meant. Scotland's referendum question, as I recall, was praised for its clarity.
I'll give Cameron this much credit. He saw the wisdom of running quickly away yelling "Fuck this!" when faced with the job of doing Brexit.
In a "when you're trying to get out of a hole, first stop digging" kind of way. His rep was shit and could only get worse by staying.
"I never doubted myself for a minute for I knew that my monkey-strong bowels were girded with strength, like the loins of a dragon ribboned with fat and the opulence of buffalo dung." - Richard Nixon, Checkers Speech, abandoned early draft

Dr. Medulla
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Re: Hey limeys

Post by Dr. Medulla »

https://www.sporcle.com/games/Peanut/british-pms-who

18/30, which for a dumb foreigner, I feel pretty good about.
"I never doubted myself for a minute for I knew that my monkey-strong bowels were girded with strength, like the loins of a dragon ribboned with fat and the opulence of buffalo dung." - Richard Nixon, Checkers Speech, abandoned early draft

Silent Majority
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Re: Hey limeys

Post by Silent Majority »

Boris Johnson is everyone's pick, but I think they underestimate just how much he's done to viciously alienate most of his party. My dark house is Rory Stewart.
a lifetime serving one machine
Is ten times worse than prison


www.pexlives.libsyn.com/

Marky Dread
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Re: Hey limeys

Post by Marky Dread »

Dr. Medulla wrote:
24 May 2019, 12:38pm
https://www.sporcle.com/games/Peanut/british-pms-who

18/30, which for a dumb foreigner, I feel pretty good about.
''I'm fucking fed up with these dumb foreigners ruining stuff'' - Morrissey
Image

Forces have been looting
My humanity
Curfews have been curbing
The end of liberty


We're the flowers in the dustbin...
No fuchsias for you.

"Without the common people you're nothing"

Nos Sumus Una Familia

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