Return of the Mighty Observations Thread

[Marky Dread]

Just a curiosity, but I wonder whether depression is connected to our very unusual and "unnatural" state of abundance. All species, including humans until a few centuries ago, live with scarcity of food as the norm. Survival is the real ongoing struggle. Humans (as a whole) broke that cycle and now have more food than they no what to do with, mostly have secure shelter, and accumulate for luxury purposes. Totally foreign to how we evolved over millennia. Does that condition mess with the brains of some of us because we're not hardwired to abundance? I dunno—just spitballin' based on revbob's comment about how his wife prioritizes suffering, where those materially deprived have more claim to depression than those in abundance.

You raise a very valid point that this could be part of our own conditioning. I don't think it's such a case of those with or without to have any greater claim as you could have very little or everything in life but then lose a loved one and depression can strike both equally as hard.

Oh certainly—I wasn't thinking so much of how we grieve and the long-lasting effects of that kind of loss, but those of us who live in relative comfort, who, materially, have little to complain about, yet deep down can't match that up to a sense of self-worth. Is depression fundamentally an illness of modern life and privilege? (Or, as They Might Be Giants put it, alienation's for the rich.)

I think it's probably different for each individual. I had to deal with the loss of my father aged six and that is something that affected me very deeply. I still and will always carry a chip on my shoulder regards his sad death. That may well be a part of my deep rooted depression having to deal with loss at an early age. At that stage in my life I knew little of material wealth or value and the only thing of value was the love of my family. Through the years I like many others have lost many friends and family and I struggle to deal with this stuff because of how much I was affected when I young.

[Dr. Medulla]

I think it's probably different for each individual. I had to deal with the loss of my father aged six and that is something that affected me very deeply. I still and will always carry a chip on my shoulder regards his sad death. That may well be a part of my deep rooted depression having to deal with loss at an early age. At thet stage in my life I knew little of material wealth or value and the only thing of value was the love of my family. Through the years I like many others have lost many friends and family and I struggle to deal with this stuff because of how much I was affected when I young.

Everything is, in the end, connected, but how and to what degree. But if your gut and your head is telling you this stuff is mostly related to your father's passing when you were young, it's undoubtedly correct. How to address that so it doesn't compromise your life, well, that's the nut to crack.

[revbob]

Just a curiosity, but I wonder whether depression is connected to our very unusual and "unnatural" state of abundance. All species, including humans until a few centuries ago, live with scarcity of food as the norm. Survival is the real ongoing struggle. Humans (as a whole) broke that cycle and now have more food than they no what to do with, mostly have secure shelter, and accumulate for luxury purposes. Totally foreign to how we evolved over millennia. Does that condition mess with the brains of some of us because we're not hardwired to abundance? I dunno—just spitballin' based on revbob's comment about how his wife prioritizes suffering, where those materially deprived have more claim to depression than those in abundance.

You raise a very valid point that this could be part of our own conditioning. I don't think it's such a case of those with or without to have any greater claim as you could have very little or everything in life but then lose a loved one and depression can strike both equally as hard.

Oh certainly—I wasn't thinking so much of how we grieve and the long-lasting effects of that kind of loss, but those of us who live in relative comfort, who, materially, have little to complain about, yet deep down can't match that up to a sense of self-worth. Is depression fundamentally an illness of modern life and privilege? (Or, as They Might Be Giants put it, alienation's for the rich.)

This is pretty much my wife's argument that it is an affliction of relative privilege. I like your proposed theory too. It would be interesting to see some research into that

[Marky Dread]

I think it's probably different for each individual. I had to deal with the loss of my father aged six and that is something that affected me very deeply. I still and will always carry a chip on my shoulder regards his sad death. That may well be a part of my deep rooted depression having to deal with loss at an early age. At thet stage in my life I knew little of material wealth or value and the only thing of value was the love of my family. Through the years I like many others have lost many friends and family and I struggle to deal with this stuff because of how much I was affected when I young.

Everything is, in the end, connected, but how and to what degree. But if your gut and your head is telling you this stuff is mostly related to your father's passing when you were young, it's undoubtedly correct. How to address that so it doesn't compromise your life, well, that's the nut to crack.

I expect that's a part of it. There's much more to it than that one thing. But knowing what makes an individual tick and events that have led up to the bout of depression and other possible triggers are all important to the individual.

[JennyB]

I'm really sorry to hear about everyone who is dealing with crap. I'm always just a phone call away if anyone ever needs to talk. Seriously.

[Marky Dread]

I'm really sorry to hear about everyone who is dealing with crap. I'm always just a phone call away if anyone ever needs to talk. Seriously.

You are a diamond JB.

[JennyB]

I'm really sorry to hear about everyone who is dealing with crap. I'm always just a phone call away if anyone ever needs to talk. Seriously.

You are a diamond JB.

More like a cubic zirconia, but thank you.

[Marky Dread]

I'm really sorry to hear about everyone who is dealing with crap. I'm always just a phone call away if anyone ever needs to talk. Seriously.

You are a diamond JB.

More like a cubic zirconia, but thank you.

[Dr. Medulla]

Long time ago, a friend told me about some paper he'd read that theorized depression as an evolutionary aid to human beings. Its purpose, generally, is to tell us that our behaviour isn't healthy and we should act a different way. It's not an affliction, it's a self-defence mechanism. I'm kind leary of it because the author tried to make the argument that our addiction to consumption—new clothes, new car, going out—was the source of the rise in depression in North America. I couldn't help but think that the person wanted to make an anti-consumption argument, but wanted to avoid seeming political, so theorized a scientific argument against it.

[Marky Dread]

Long time ago, a friend told me about some paper he'd read that theorized depression as an evolutionary aid to human beings. Its purpose, generally, is to tell us that our behaviour isn't healthy and we should act a different way. It's not an affliction, it's a self-defence mechanism. I'm kind leary of it because the author tried to make the argument that our addiction to consumption—new clothes, new car, going out—was the source of the rise in depression in North America. I couldn't help but think that the person wanted to make an anti-consumption argument, but wanted to avoid seeming political, so theorized a scientific argument against it.

Animals get depressed also and I've never seen one queing up at Walmart.

[Mimi]

I grew up dirt poor and had a shitty childhood. I was depressed then but stuffed all those feelings away. Although my relationship with someone who has a great career allows me to live a much better life now, I suffer from all the emotions I repressed as a kid. It hit me in my early 40s, and I've been dealing with it ever since. My brother, who actually was the target of abuse, is still poor and still suffers from depression. I don't doubt that our materialistic culture has an impact on some people, but I'm not sure I feel comfortable with comparing that kind of depression to clinical depression or something like PTSD. The former can be easily fixed by adjusting your mindset; the latter two, well, not so much. But, and I probably should have said this first, I don't like minimizing anyone's pain. I'm not in your brain, your heart, your soul and will never know the depths of another's burdens.

[Marky Dread]

I grew up dirt poor and had a shitty childhood. I was depressed then but stuffed all those feelings away. Although my relationship with someone who has a great career allows me to live a much better life now, I suffer from all the emotions I repressed as a kid. It hit me in my early 40s, and I've been dealing with it ever since. My brother, who actually was the target of abuse, is still poor and still suffers from depression. I don't doubt that our materialistic culture has an impact on some people, but I'm not sure I feel comfortable with comparing that kind of depression to clinical depression or something like PTSD. The former can be easily fixed by adjusting your mindset; the latter two, well, not so much. But, and I probably should have said this first, I don't like minimizing anyone's pain. I'm not in your brain, your heart, your soul and will never know the depth's of another's burdens.

Very well put Mimi and I agree. I just feel that depression is not a cover all expression for feeling low etc. It's far more personal and some of us are at least fortunate to be able to talk about it and express our feelings which helps a little. Others not so lucky and have to bottle stuff up and for some it's simply too personal/hurtful.

[Kory]

Oddly enough whenever I see that quote it for some reason reminds me of Mark Hollis and Talk Talk's music. There is something resplendent yet melancholic going on there.

It's such a curious thing to see Talk Talk—the latter period, that is—described as melancholy. I mean, yeah, it isn't uptempo energy and all, but I've always found it uplifting. There's a fundamental hopefulness to it all. I'd be cool with having Spirit of Eden and Laughing Stock played at my funeral just to say, no worries, it's okay.

Done and done

[Dr. Medulla]

Oddly enough whenever I see that quote it for some reason reminds me of Mark Hollis and Talk Talk's music. There is something resplendent yet melancholic going on there.

It's such a curious thing to see Talk Talk—the latter period, that is—described as melancholy. I mean, yeah, it isn't uptempo energy and all, but I've always found it uplifting. There's a fundamental hopefulness to it all. I'd be cool with having Spirit of Eden and Laughing Stock played at my funeral just to say, no worries, it's okay.

Done and done

Or Swans, to let people know that I never resolved my frustrations.

[Dr. Medulla]

I grew up dirt poor and had a shitty childhood. I was depressed then but stuffed all those feelings away. Although my relationship with someone who has a great career allows me to live a much better life now, I suffer from all the emotions I repressed as a kid. It hit me in my early 40s, and I've been dealing with it ever since. My brother, who actually was the target of abuse, is still poor and still suffers from depression. I don't doubt that our materialistic culture has an impact on some people, but I'm not sure I feel comfortable with comparing that kind of depression to clinical depression or something like PTSD. The former can be easily fixed by adjusting your mindset; the latter two, well, not so much. But, and I probably should have said this first, I don't like minimizing anyone's pain. I'm not in your brain, your heart, your soul and will never know the depths of another's burdens.

My apologies if my comments made it seem that I believed all depressions / anxieties / etc are basically the same and can be treated similarly. There are some people who clearly went thru traumatic episodes that horribly altered the way they perceive and interact with the world. I was speaking more to where revbob was coming from, that place where someone can look at their material comfort and think, What have you got to be depressed about? It's maddening for all involved, and can just encourage further feelings of poor self-worth because you think, Yeah, asshole, why aren't you happy with all you got? You're faking this, you little attention whore. Nothing demonstrates how powerful the human brain is than when it weaponizes itself against its host, making sure the answer to all scenarios ends with, You're a loser.