This Week in Religion

Politics and other such topical creams.
Mimi
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Re: This Week in Religion

Post by Mimi » 21 Oct 2019, 8:13am

JennyB wrote:
10 Sep 2019, 11:40am
WestwayKid wrote:
10 Sep 2019, 11:24am
Dr. Medulla wrote:
09 Sep 2019, 7:07pm
Image
I wonder what this couple is up to in 2019? Theories? :mrgreen:
After years of trying to pray the gay away, they both finally came out.
Yeah, I mean, look at the way he's eyeing that meat. :shifty:

Month late on a stale joke. *heavy sigh*

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Re: This Week in Religion

Post by 101Walterton » 24 Oct 2019, 3:47pm

I am intrigued by the Nativity story discussion in the other thread but thought it more appropriate here.
My question is this. We know Jesus was a real person and existed. The story of Mary and Joseph going to Bethlehem for the census not only didn’t happen in December but probably never happened at all.
Why would the nativity story be created if it never happened?
If it did happen but was nothing to do with Jesus why did it become legend and why did it get linked to Jesus?
I know Jesus was not the only person doing what he did at that time there were numerous religious sects.
I also know that Romans and Christians combined stories to come up with an acceptable story / calendar to suit both sides.
Would it be fair to say the Nativity story was originally someone else’s story?

Dr. Medulla
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Re: This Week in Religion

Post by Dr. Medulla » 24 Oct 2019, 3:54pm

101Walterton wrote:
24 Oct 2019, 3:47pm
I am intrigued by the Nativity story discussion in the other thread but thought it more appropriate here.
My question is this. We know Jesus was a real person and existed. The story of Mary and Joseph going to Bethlehem for the census not only didn’t happen in December but probably never happened at all.
Why would the nativity story be created if it never happened?
If it did happen but was nothing to do with Jesus why did it become legend and why did it get linked to Jesus?
I know Jesus was not the only person doing what he did at that time there were numerous religious sects.
I also know that Romans and Christians combined stories to come up with an acceptable story / calendar to suit both sides.
Would it be fair to say the Nativity story was originally someone else’s story?
I suspect Wolter is better versed on these ideas, but I can start. The theory goes, if I'm remembering correctly, is that Jesus' birth story was retrofitted into an earlier prophecy about the king of the Jews to be born in Bethlehem, thereby validating his status as being of royal and divine blood. All this was done decades after his death.
Blossom and Six want fake ID's

101Walterton
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Re: This Week in Religion

Post by 101Walterton » 24 Oct 2019, 4:04pm

Dr. Medulla wrote:
24 Oct 2019, 3:54pm
101Walterton wrote:
24 Oct 2019, 3:47pm
I am intrigued by the Nativity story discussion in the other thread but thought it more appropriate here.
My question is this. We know Jesus was a real person and existed. The story of Mary and Joseph going to Bethlehem for the census not only didn’t happen in December but probably never happened at all.
Why would the nativity story be created if it never happened?
If it did happen but was nothing to do with Jesus why did it become legend and why did it get linked to Jesus?
I know Jesus was not the only person doing what he did at that time there were numerous religious sects.
I also know that Romans and Christians combined stories to come up with an acceptable story / calendar to suit both sides.
Would it be fair to say the Nativity story was originally someone else’s story?
I suspect Wolter is better versed on these ideas, but I can start. The theory goes, if I'm remembering correctly, is that Jesus' birth story was retrofitted into an earlier prophecy about the king of the Jews to be born in Bethlehem, thereby validating his status as being of royal and divine blood. All this was done decades after his death.
That makes sense!!
Be interested to know where the prophecy came from if anyone knows?

Dr. Medulla
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Re: This Week in Religion

Post by Dr. Medulla » 24 Oct 2019, 4:22pm

101Walterton wrote:
24 Oct 2019, 4:04pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
24 Oct 2019, 3:54pm
101Walterton wrote:
24 Oct 2019, 3:47pm
I am intrigued by the Nativity story discussion in the other thread but thought it more appropriate here.
My question is this. We know Jesus was a real person and existed. The story of Mary and Joseph going to Bethlehem for the census not only didn’t happen in December but probably never happened at all.
Why would the nativity story be created if it never happened?
If it did happen but was nothing to do with Jesus why did it become legend and why did it get linked to Jesus?
I know Jesus was not the only person doing what he did at that time there were numerous religious sects.
I also know that Romans and Christians combined stories to come up with an acceptable story / calendar to suit both sides.
Would it be fair to say the Nativity story was originally someone else’s story?
I suspect Wolter is better versed on these ideas, but I can start. The theory goes, if I'm remembering correctly, is that Jesus' birth story was retrofitted into an earlier prophecy about the king of the Jews to be born in Bethlehem, thereby validating his status as being of royal and divine blood. All this was done decades after his death.
That makes sense!!
Be interested to know where the prophecy came from if anyone knows?
It's in the Old Testament, but I can't be more specific. It's also a way of binding the Old and New Testaments (or, rather, to validate the New as a holy text).
Blossom and Six want fake ID's

101Walterton
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Re: This Week in Religion

Post by 101Walterton » 24 Oct 2019, 4:46pm

Dr. Medulla wrote:
24 Oct 2019, 4:22pm
101Walterton wrote:
24 Oct 2019, 4:04pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
24 Oct 2019, 3:54pm
101Walterton wrote:
24 Oct 2019, 3:47pm
I am intrigued by the Nativity story discussion in the other thread but thought it more appropriate here.
My question is this. We know Jesus was a real person and existed. The story of Mary and Joseph going to Bethlehem for the census not only didn’t happen in December but probably never happened at all.
Why would the nativity story be created if it never happened?
If it did happen but was nothing to do with Jesus why did it become legend and why did it get linked to Jesus?
I know Jesus was not the only person doing what he did at that time there were numerous religious sects.
I also know that Romans and Christians combined stories to come up with an acceptable story / calendar to suit both sides.
Would it be fair to say the Nativity story was originally someone else’s story?
I suspect Wolter is better versed on these ideas, but I can start. The theory goes, if I'm remembering correctly, is that Jesus' birth story was retrofitted into an earlier prophecy about the king of the Jews to be born in Bethlehem, thereby validating his status as being of royal and divine blood. All this was done decades after his death.
That makes sense!!
Be interested to know where the prophecy came from if anyone knows?
It's in the Old Testament, but I can't be more specific. It's also a way of binding the Old and New Testaments (or, rather, to validate the New as a holy text).
I don’t know much about Old Testament would that have been documented back in the day?

Dr. Medulla
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Re: This Week in Religion

Post by Dr. Medulla » 24 Oct 2019, 4:52pm

101Walterton wrote:
24 Oct 2019, 4:46pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
24 Oct 2019, 4:22pm
101Walterton wrote:
24 Oct 2019, 4:04pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
24 Oct 2019, 3:54pm
101Walterton wrote:
24 Oct 2019, 3:47pm
I am intrigued by the Nativity story discussion in the other thread but thought it more appropriate here.
My question is this. We know Jesus was a real person and existed. The story of Mary and Joseph going to Bethlehem for the census not only didn’t happen in December but probably never happened at all.
Why would the nativity story be created if it never happened?
If it did happen but was nothing to do with Jesus why did it become legend and why did it get linked to Jesus?
I know Jesus was not the only person doing what he did at that time there were numerous religious sects.
I also know that Romans and Christians combined stories to come up with an acceptable story / calendar to suit both sides.
Would it be fair to say the Nativity story was originally someone else’s story?
I suspect Wolter is better versed on these ideas, but I can start. The theory goes, if I'm remembering correctly, is that Jesus' birth story was retrofitted into an earlier prophecy about the king of the Jews to be born in Bethlehem, thereby validating his status as being of royal and divine blood. All this was done decades after his death.
That makes sense!!
Be interested to know where the prophecy came from if anyone knows?
It's in the Old Testament, but I can't be more specific. It's also a way of binding the Old and New Testaments (or, rather, to validate the New as a holy text).
I don’t know much about Old Testament would that have been documented back in the day?
In Jesus' time? Certainly. A quick Googling suggests the prophecy is in Micah 5:2: "But you, O Bethlehem Ephrathah, who are too little to be among the clans of Judah, from you shall come forth for me one who is to be ruler in Israel, whose coming forth is from of old, from ancient days." That is, the king of the Jews will come from Bethlehem.
Blossom and Six want fake ID's

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Re: This Week in Religion

Post by oliver » 24 Oct 2019, 4:53pm

101Walterton wrote:
24 Oct 2019, 3:47pm
My question is this. We know Jesus was a real person and existed
We do?
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Re: This Week in Religion

Post by Silent Majority » 24 Oct 2019, 5:16pm

oliver wrote:
24 Oct 2019, 4:53pm
101Walterton wrote:
24 Oct 2019, 3:47pm
My question is this. We know Jesus was a real person and existed
We do?
Yeah, all evidence points to the existence of an Apocalyptic preacher from Nazareth in the first century named Jesus who was crucified on the order of Pilate.
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Tonight I can't hold a pen


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Re: This Week in Religion

Post by Silent Majority » 24 Oct 2019, 5:24pm

Some have used events from the Gospel that you wouldn't expect a God to have to endure as evidence of Jesus's existence.

"How is he God? He was nailed to a tree."
"Ah! Oh, he always planned that, you know? Um. It had to happen."
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Tonight I can't hold a pen


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101Walterton
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Re: This Week in Religion

Post by 101Walterton » 24 Oct 2019, 6:14pm

Silent Majority wrote:
24 Oct 2019, 5:16pm
oliver wrote:
24 Oct 2019, 4:53pm
101Walterton wrote:
24 Oct 2019, 3:47pm
My question is this. We know Jesus was a real person and existed
We do?
Yeah, all evidence points to the existence of an Apocalyptic preacher from Nazareth in the first century named Jesus who was crucified on the order of Pilate.
Sorry Oliver I should have clarified as SM has, a person called Jesus existed I didn’t mean Jesus son of God existed.

Dr. Medulla
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Re: This Week in Religion

Post by Dr. Medulla » 24 Oct 2019, 6:47pm

I've only read a couple of his books, but you (101W) might want to check out some of the stuff by Bart Ehrman, who is quite accessible and deals with the historical Jesus.
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101Walterton
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Re: This Week in Religion

Post by 101Walterton » 24 Oct 2019, 6:51pm

Dr. Medulla wrote:
24 Oct 2019, 6:47pm
I've only read a couple of his books, but you (101W) might want to check out some of the stuff by Bart Ehrman, who is quite accessible and deals with the historical Jesus.
I will thanks it is an interesting subject. Whilst I am an atheist I am very much an each to their own and not anti religion except when it comes to Christianity!!! Probably because I live in a Christian society in a country far more religious than I am used to.

oliver
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Re: This Week in Religion

Post by oliver » 24 Oct 2019, 6:57pm

Silent Majority wrote:
24 Oct 2019, 5:16pm
oliver wrote:
24 Oct 2019, 4:53pm
101Walterton wrote:
24 Oct 2019, 3:47pm
My question is this. We know Jesus was a real person and existed
We do?
Yeah, all evidence points to the existence of an Apocalyptic preacher from Nazareth in the first century named Jesus who was crucified on the order of Pilate.
I'm not sure there is any evidence. The two best examples are the Josephus passage, which even the Catholic Church acknowledge has been modified by eager Christians multiple times, is incredibly convenient in that it confirms everything the Christians said in one short paragraph but is never quoted before 300CE and Tacitus who was writing generations later in 115CE.

I don't doubt there were many people around at the time called Jesus. The man supposedly next to Jesus on the cross was Jesus Barabbas (which translates to Jesus Son of the Father)

Seems like "Jesus" is an amalgamation of a few people rather than one specific preacher.
Putting a little stick about. Putting the frighteners on flash little twerps

Dr. Medulla
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Re: This Week in Religion

Post by Dr. Medulla » 24 Oct 2019, 7:03pm

101Walterton wrote:
24 Oct 2019, 6:51pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
24 Oct 2019, 6:47pm
I've only read a couple of his books, but you (101W) might want to check out some of the stuff by Bart Ehrman, who is quite accessible and deals with the historical Jesus.
I will thanks it is an interesting subject. Whilst I am an atheist I am very much an each to their own and not anti religion except when it comes to Christianity!!! Probably because I live in a Christian society in a country far more religious than I am used to.
Yeah, I'm atheist but not antitheist. If some people draw strength and moral purpose from religion—without being a bigot about it—who am I to criticize?
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