Yeah, I mean, look at the way he's eyeing that meat.JennyB wrote: ↑10 Sep 2019, 11:40amAfter years of trying to pray the gay away, they both finally came out.
![shifty :shifty:](./images/smilies/vb_paranoid.gif)
Month late on a stale joke. *heavy sigh*
Yeah, I mean, look at the way he's eyeing that meat.JennyB wrote: ↑10 Sep 2019, 11:40amAfter years of trying to pray the gay away, they both finally came out.
I suspect Wolter is better versed on these ideas, but I can start. The theory goes, if I'm remembering correctly, is that Jesus' birth story was retrofitted into an earlier prophecy about the king of the Jews to be born in Bethlehem, thereby validating his status as being of royal and divine blood. All this was done decades after his death.101Walterton wrote: ↑24 Oct 2019, 3:47pmI am intrigued by the Nativity story discussion in the other thread but thought it more appropriate here.
My question is this. We know Jesus was a real person and existed. The story of Mary and Joseph going to Bethlehem for the census not only didn’t happen in December but probably never happened at all.
Why would the nativity story be created if it never happened?
If it did happen but was nothing to do with Jesus why did it become legend and why did it get linked to Jesus?
I know Jesus was not the only person doing what he did at that time there were numerous religious sects.
I also know that Romans and Christians combined stories to come up with an acceptable story / calendar to suit both sides.
Would it be fair to say the Nativity story was originally someone else’s story?
That makes sense!!Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑24 Oct 2019, 3:54pmI suspect Wolter is better versed on these ideas, but I can start. The theory goes, if I'm remembering correctly, is that Jesus' birth story was retrofitted into an earlier prophecy about the king of the Jews to be born in Bethlehem, thereby validating his status as being of royal and divine blood. All this was done decades after his death.101Walterton wrote: ↑24 Oct 2019, 3:47pmI am intrigued by the Nativity story discussion in the other thread but thought it more appropriate here.
My question is this. We know Jesus was a real person and existed. The story of Mary and Joseph going to Bethlehem for the census not only didn’t happen in December but probably never happened at all.
Why would the nativity story be created if it never happened?
If it did happen but was nothing to do with Jesus why did it become legend and why did it get linked to Jesus?
I know Jesus was not the only person doing what he did at that time there were numerous religious sects.
I also know that Romans and Christians combined stories to come up with an acceptable story / calendar to suit both sides.
Would it be fair to say the Nativity story was originally someone else’s story?
It's in the Old Testament, but I can't be more specific. It's also a way of binding the Old and New Testaments (or, rather, to validate the New as a holy text).101Walterton wrote: ↑24 Oct 2019, 4:04pmThat makes sense!!Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑24 Oct 2019, 3:54pmI suspect Wolter is better versed on these ideas, but I can start. The theory goes, if I'm remembering correctly, is that Jesus' birth story was retrofitted into an earlier prophecy about the king of the Jews to be born in Bethlehem, thereby validating his status as being of royal and divine blood. All this was done decades after his death.101Walterton wrote: ↑24 Oct 2019, 3:47pmI am intrigued by the Nativity story discussion in the other thread but thought it more appropriate here.
My question is this. We know Jesus was a real person and existed. The story of Mary and Joseph going to Bethlehem for the census not only didn’t happen in December but probably never happened at all.
Why would the nativity story be created if it never happened?
If it did happen but was nothing to do with Jesus why did it become legend and why did it get linked to Jesus?
I know Jesus was not the only person doing what he did at that time there were numerous religious sects.
I also know that Romans and Christians combined stories to come up with an acceptable story / calendar to suit both sides.
Would it be fair to say the Nativity story was originally someone else’s story?
Be interested to know where the prophecy came from if anyone knows?
I don’t know much about Old Testament would that have been documented back in the day?Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑24 Oct 2019, 4:22pmIt's in the Old Testament, but I can't be more specific. It's also a way of binding the Old and New Testaments (or, rather, to validate the New as a holy text).101Walterton wrote: ↑24 Oct 2019, 4:04pmThat makes sense!!Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑24 Oct 2019, 3:54pmI suspect Wolter is better versed on these ideas, but I can start. The theory goes, if I'm remembering correctly, is that Jesus' birth story was retrofitted into an earlier prophecy about the king of the Jews to be born in Bethlehem, thereby validating his status as being of royal and divine blood. All this was done decades after his death.101Walterton wrote: ↑24 Oct 2019, 3:47pmI am intrigued by the Nativity story discussion in the other thread but thought it more appropriate here.
My question is this. We know Jesus was a real person and existed. The story of Mary and Joseph going to Bethlehem for the census not only didn’t happen in December but probably never happened at all.
Why would the nativity story be created if it never happened?
If it did happen but was nothing to do with Jesus why did it become legend and why did it get linked to Jesus?
I know Jesus was not the only person doing what he did at that time there were numerous religious sects.
I also know that Romans and Christians combined stories to come up with an acceptable story / calendar to suit both sides.
Would it be fair to say the Nativity story was originally someone else’s story?
Be interested to know where the prophecy came from if anyone knows?
In Jesus' time? Certainly. A quick Googling suggests the prophecy is in Micah 5:2: "But you, O Bethlehem Ephrathah, who are too little to be among the clans of Judah, from you shall come forth for me one who is to be ruler in Israel, whose coming forth is from of old, from ancient days." That is, the king of the Jews will come from Bethlehem.101Walterton wrote: ↑24 Oct 2019, 4:46pmI don’t know much about Old Testament would that have been documented back in the day?Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑24 Oct 2019, 4:22pmIt's in the Old Testament, but I can't be more specific. It's also a way of binding the Old and New Testaments (or, rather, to validate the New as a holy text).101Walterton wrote: ↑24 Oct 2019, 4:04pmThat makes sense!!Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑24 Oct 2019, 3:54pmI suspect Wolter is better versed on these ideas, but I can start. The theory goes, if I'm remembering correctly, is that Jesus' birth story was retrofitted into an earlier prophecy about the king of the Jews to be born in Bethlehem, thereby validating his status as being of royal and divine blood. All this was done decades after his death.101Walterton wrote: ↑24 Oct 2019, 3:47pmI am intrigued by the Nativity story discussion in the other thread but thought it more appropriate here.
My question is this. We know Jesus was a real person and existed. The story of Mary and Joseph going to Bethlehem for the census not only didn’t happen in December but probably never happened at all.
Why would the nativity story be created if it never happened?
If it did happen but was nothing to do with Jesus why did it become legend and why did it get linked to Jesus?
I know Jesus was not the only person doing what he did at that time there were numerous religious sects.
I also know that Romans and Christians combined stories to come up with an acceptable story / calendar to suit both sides.
Would it be fair to say the Nativity story was originally someone else’s story?
Be interested to know where the prophecy came from if anyone knows?
We do?101Walterton wrote: ↑24 Oct 2019, 3:47pmMy question is this. We know Jesus was a real person and existed
Yeah, all evidence points to the existence of an Apocalyptic preacher from Nazareth in the first century named Jesus who was crucified on the order of Pilate.oliver wrote: ↑24 Oct 2019, 4:53pmWe do?101Walterton wrote: ↑24 Oct 2019, 3:47pmMy question is this. We know Jesus was a real person and existed
Sorry Oliver I should have clarified as SM has, a person called Jesus existed I didn’t mean Jesus son of God existed.Silent Majority wrote: ↑24 Oct 2019, 5:16pmYeah, all evidence points to the existence of an Apocalyptic preacher from Nazareth in the first century named Jesus who was crucified on the order of Pilate.oliver wrote: ↑24 Oct 2019, 4:53pmWe do?101Walterton wrote: ↑24 Oct 2019, 3:47pmMy question is this. We know Jesus was a real person and existed
I will thanks it is an interesting subject. Whilst I am an atheist I am very much an each to their own and not anti religion except when it comes to Christianity!!! Probably because I live in a Christian society in a country far more religious than I am used to.Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑24 Oct 2019, 6:47pmI've only read a couple of his books, but you (101W) might want to check out some of the stuff by Bart Ehrman, who is quite accessible and deals with the historical Jesus.
I'm not sure there is any evidence. The two best examples are the Josephus passage, which even the Catholic Church acknowledge has been modified by eager Christians multiple times, is incredibly convenient in that it confirms everything the Christians said in one short paragraph but is never quoted before 300CE and Tacitus who was writing generations later in 115CE.Silent Majority wrote: ↑24 Oct 2019, 5:16pmYeah, all evidence points to the existence of an Apocalyptic preacher from Nazareth in the first century named Jesus who was crucified on the order of Pilate.oliver wrote: ↑24 Oct 2019, 4:53pmWe do?101Walterton wrote: ↑24 Oct 2019, 3:47pmMy question is this. We know Jesus was a real person and existed
Yeah, I'm atheist but not antitheist. If some people draw strength and moral purpose from religion—without being a bigot about it—who am I to criticize?101Walterton wrote: ↑24 Oct 2019, 6:51pmI will thanks it is an interesting subject. Whilst I am an atheist I am very much an each to their own and not anti religion except when it comes to Christianity!!! Probably because I live in a Christian society in a country far more religious than I am used to.Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑24 Oct 2019, 6:47pmI've only read a couple of his books, but you (101W) might want to check out some of the stuff by Bart Ehrman, who is quite accessible and deals with the historical Jesus.