I just started Rob Sheffield's new book about why The Beatles remain so popular. Only a few pages in, but I like it.Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑25 Mar 2020, 6:05pmWhen I've taught my rock class, I've always had students who call the Beatles overrated, but when I interrogate what they mean, it's really that their parents like them. I'm pretty "different strokes for different folks" when it comes to music, but I truly don't understand people who say they hate the Beatles.WestwayKid wrote: ↑25 Mar 2020, 5:54pmI'm stuck at work, but I've been working my way through their catalog today. They were my first introduction to rock music as a young kid via my dad and after all these years and all of these listens...the music still holds up. Were they the only good band to come out of the 60's? No, but it's also become somewhat trendy to call them overrated. The Beatles were not overrated. "I'm Happy Just To Dance With You" is currently playing. It's not one of their "better" tracks, but it's still a really solid piece of power pop.
The Beatles song you're thinking about right now thread
- WestwayKid
- Unknown Immortal
- Posts: 6788
- Joined: 20 Sep 2017, 8:22am
- Location: Mill-e-wah-que
Re: The Beatles song you're thinking about right now thread
"They don't think it be like it is, but it do." - Oscar Gamble
- Marky Dread
- Messiah of the Milk Bar
- Posts: 59059
- Joined: 17 Jun 2008, 11:26am
Re: The Beatles song you're thinking about right now thread
Way too many great songs to hate a band like The Beatles. A fair few crap songs also but just too many to admire that set out a blue print for so many to follow.Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑25 Mar 2020, 6:05pmWhen I've taught my rock class, I've always had students who call the Beatles overrated, but when I interrogate what they mean, it's really that their parents like them. I'm pretty "different strokes for different folks" when it comes to music, but I truly don't understand people who say they hate the Beatles.WestwayKid wrote: ↑25 Mar 2020, 5:54pmI'm stuck at work, but I've been working my way through their catalog today. They were my first introduction to rock music as a young kid via my dad and after all these years and all of these listens...the music still holds up. Were they the only good band to come out of the 60's? No, but it's also become somewhat trendy to call them overrated. The Beatles were not overrated. "I'm Happy Just To Dance With You" is currently playing. It's not one of their "better" tracks, but it's still a really solid piece of power pop.
I think their legendary status becomes a bit overbearing at times. You know it's The Beatles so it must be great blah blah. But some magical early pop nuggets followed by that psych period is just too good to deny.
Forces have been looting
My humanity
Curfews have been curbing
The end of liberty
We're the flowers in the dustbin...
No fuchsias for you.
"Without the common people you're nothing"
Nos Sumus Una Familia
- Dr. Medulla
- Atheistic Epileptic
- Posts: 116730
- Joined: 15 Jun 2008, 2:00pm
- Location: Straight Banana, Idaho
Re: The Beatles song you're thinking about right now thread
I neither liked nor disliked it. It's enjoyable because it's about the Beatles—the story's been told so many times but it's still captivating—but there wasn't anything distinct about it.WestwayKid wrote: ↑25 Mar 2020, 6:21pmI just started Rob Sheffield's new book about why The Beatles remain so popular. Only a few pages in, but I like it.
"Ain't no party like an S Club party!'" - Richard Nixon, Checkers Speech, abandoned early draft
- Dr. Medulla
- Atheistic Epileptic
- Posts: 116730
- Joined: 15 Jun 2008, 2:00pm
- Location: Straight Banana, Idaho
Re: The Beatles song you're thinking about right now thread
It's just a case where the kneejerk suspicion of lazy hype actually fails the cynical. It's insane to consider how far they came in such a short period and consistently dragged everyone else with them. I'm a solid social historian—that is, it's larger social trends and systems that dominate history, not "great men"—but the Beatles confound that. Their talent, personality, and restless curiosity actually steered things in ways that few other artists ever could hope to do.Marky Dread wrote: ↑25 Mar 2020, 6:23pmWay too many great songs to hate a band like The Beatles. A fair few crap songs also but just too many to admire that set out a blue print for so many to follow.
I think their legendary status becomes a bit overbearing at times. You know it's The Beatles so it must be great blah blah. But some magical early pop nuggets followed by that psych period is just too good to deny.
"Ain't no party like an S Club party!'" - Richard Nixon, Checkers Speech, abandoned early draft
- Marky Dread
- Messiah of the Milk Bar
- Posts: 59059
- Joined: 17 Jun 2008, 11:26am
Re: The Beatles song you're thinking about right now thread
Timing and talent played a huge part here of course. But boy what talent it is.Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑25 Mar 2020, 6:43pmIt's just a case where the kneejerk suspicion of lazy hype actually fails the cynical. It's insane to consider how far they came in such a short period and consistently dragged everyone else with them. I'm a solid social historian—that is, it's larger social trends and systems that dominate history, not "great men"—but the Beatles confound that. Their talent, personality, and restless curiosity actually steered things in ways that few other artists ever could hope to do.Marky Dread wrote: ↑25 Mar 2020, 6:23pmWay too many great songs to hate a band like The Beatles. A fair few crap songs also but just too many to admire that set out a blue print for so many to follow.
I think their legendary status becomes a bit overbearing at times. You know it's The Beatles so it must be great blah blah. But some magical early pop nuggets followed by that psych period is just too good to deny.
Forces have been looting
My humanity
Curfews have been curbing
The end of liberty
We're the flowers in the dustbin...
No fuchsias for you.
"Without the common people you're nothing"
Nos Sumus Una Familia
Re: The Beatles song you're thinking about right now thread
I hated them for years because of their ubiquity, but as soon as I got into them, when I tried to convert other friends, the only critique they could muster was "yeah, but it's the Beatles."Marky Dread wrote: ↑25 Mar 2020, 6:23pmWay too many great songs to hate a band like The Beatles. A fair few crap songs also but just too many to admire that set out a blue print for so many to follow.Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑25 Mar 2020, 6:05pmWhen I've taught my rock class, I've always had students who call the Beatles overrated, but when I interrogate what they mean, it's really that their parents like them. I'm pretty "different strokes for different folks" when it comes to music, but I truly don't understand people who say they hate the Beatles.WestwayKid wrote: ↑25 Mar 2020, 5:54pmI'm stuck at work, but I've been working my way through their catalog today. They were my first introduction to rock music as a young kid via my dad and after all these years and all of these listens...the music still holds up. Were they the only good band to come out of the 60's? No, but it's also become somewhat trendy to call them overrated. The Beatles were not overrated. "I'm Happy Just To Dance With You" is currently playing. It's not one of their "better" tracks, but it's still a really solid piece of power pop.
I think their legendary status becomes a bit overbearing at times. You know it's The Beatles so it must be great blah blah. But some magical early pop nuggets followed by that psych period is just too good to deny.
"Suck our Earth dick, Martians!" —Doc
Re: The Beatles song you're thinking about right now thread
I have a friend that is deeply resistant to liking things just because of historical context. If they don't still play well in the current time and not sound dated, he's not interested.Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑25 Mar 2020, 6:43pmIt's just a case where the kneejerk suspicion of lazy hype actually fails the cynical. It's insane to consider how far they came in such a short period and consistently dragged everyone else with them. I'm a solid social historian—that is, it's larger social trends and systems that dominate history, not "great men"—but the Beatles confound that. Their talent, personality, and restless curiosity actually steered things in ways that few other artists ever could hope to do.Marky Dread wrote: ↑25 Mar 2020, 6:23pmWay too many great songs to hate a band like The Beatles. A fair few crap songs also but just too many to admire that set out a blue print for so many to follow.
I think their legendary status becomes a bit overbearing at times. You know it's The Beatles so it must be great blah blah. But some magical early pop nuggets followed by that psych period is just too good to deny.
"Suck our Earth dick, Martians!" —Doc
- Dr. Medulla
- Atheistic Epileptic
- Posts: 116730
- Joined: 15 Jun 2008, 2:00pm
- Location: Straight Banana, Idaho
Re: The Beatles song you're thinking about right now thread
That kind insularity to history, I've long thought, is a silent admission of one's own irrelevance. Unless you can somehow stay current, keeping up with trends, anything you once accomplished is garbage. It's a perspective without foundation because trend is by its very nature always evolving. It's a rather postmodern position, but one that illustrates to me what's so fundamentally horrible about postmodernism—that in rejecting standards, it rejects value of any kind because it's all utterly transitory.Kory wrote: ↑26 Mar 2020, 1:21pmI have a friend that is deeply resistant to liking things just because of historical context. If they don't still play well in the current time and not sound dated, he's not interested.Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑25 Mar 2020, 6:43pmIt's just a case where the kneejerk suspicion of lazy hype actually fails the cynical. It's insane to consider how far they came in such a short period and consistently dragged everyone else with them. I'm a solid social historian—that is, it's larger social trends and systems that dominate history, not "great men"—but the Beatles confound that. Their talent, personality, and restless curiosity actually steered things in ways that few other artists ever could hope to do.Marky Dread wrote: ↑25 Mar 2020, 6:23pmWay too many great songs to hate a band like The Beatles. A fair few crap songs also but just too many to admire that set out a blue print for so many to follow.
I think their legendary status becomes a bit overbearing at times. You know it's The Beatles so it must be great blah blah. But some magical early pop nuggets followed by that psych period is just too good to deny.
"Ain't no party like an S Club party!'" - Richard Nixon, Checkers Speech, abandoned early draft
Re: The Beatles song you're thinking about right now thread
I'm not sure how he'd respond to that. He's very analytical and lacking in emotion (I actually suspect he's a low-level sociopath), and I think a lot of his opinions on music and art come from what he's read and memorized (he's a medical doctor) rather than what he actually thinks (if he's even capable of coming up with his own opinions on it). I once caught him reciting program notes from a symphony we attended almost verbatim as his own opinion. The way he usually responds to stuff like the Beatles is "just because it's historically important doesn't mean it's good." Which is not wrong, I guess, but it does close his mind before he gives anything a chance.Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑26 Mar 2020, 1:33pmThat kind insularity to history, I've long thought, is a silent admission of one's own irrelevance. Unless you can somehow stay current, keeping up with trends, anything you once accomplished is garbage. It's a perspective without foundation because trend is by its very nature always evolving. It's a rather postmodern position, but one that illustrates to me what's so fundamentally horrible about postmodernism—that in rejecting standards, it rejects value of any kind because it's all utterly transitory.Kory wrote: ↑26 Mar 2020, 1:21pmI have a friend that is deeply resistant to liking things just because of historical context. If they don't still play well in the current time and not sound dated, he's not interested.Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑25 Mar 2020, 6:43pmIt's just a case where the kneejerk suspicion of lazy hype actually fails the cynical. It's insane to consider how far they came in such a short period and consistently dragged everyone else with them. I'm a solid social historian—that is, it's larger social trends and systems that dominate history, not "great men"—but the Beatles confound that. Their talent, personality, and restless curiosity actually steered things in ways that few other artists ever could hope to do.Marky Dread wrote: ↑25 Mar 2020, 6:23pmWay too many great songs to hate a band like The Beatles. A fair few crap songs also but just too many to admire that set out a blue print for so many to follow.
I think their legendary status becomes a bit overbearing at times. You know it's The Beatles so it must be great blah blah. But some magical early pop nuggets followed by that psych period is just too good to deny.
"Suck our Earth dick, Martians!" —Doc
- Marky Dread
- Messiah of the Milk Bar
- Posts: 59059
- Joined: 17 Jun 2008, 11:26am
Re: The Beatles song you're thinking about right now thread
There is no new music everything is old.Kory wrote: ↑26 Mar 2020, 2:17pmI'm not sure how he'd respond to that. He's very analytical and lacking in emotion (I actually suspect he's a low-level sociopath), and I think a lot of his opinions on music and art come from what he's read and memorized (he's a medical doctor) rather than what he actually thinks (if he's even capable of coming up with his own opinions on it). I once caught him reciting program notes from a symphony we attended almost verbatim as his own opinion. The way he usually responds to stuff like the Beatles is "just because it's historically important doesn't mean it's good." Which is not wrong, I guess, but it does close his mind before he gives anything a chance.Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑26 Mar 2020, 1:33pmThat kind insularity to history, I've long thought, is a silent admission of one's own irrelevance. Unless you can somehow stay current, keeping up with trends, anything you once accomplished is garbage. It's a perspective without foundation because trend is by its very nature always evolving. It's a rather postmodern position, but one that illustrates to me what's so fundamentally horrible about postmodernism—that in rejecting standards, it rejects value of any kind because it's all utterly transitory.Kory wrote: ↑26 Mar 2020, 1:21pmI have a friend that is deeply resistant to liking things just because of historical context. If they don't still play well in the current time and not sound dated, he's not interested.Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑25 Mar 2020, 6:43pmIt's just a case where the kneejerk suspicion of lazy hype actually fails the cynical. It's insane to consider how far they came in such a short period and consistently dragged everyone else with them. I'm a solid social historian—that is, it's larger social trends and systems that dominate history, not "great men"—but the Beatles confound that. Their talent, personality, and restless curiosity actually steered things in ways that few other artists ever could hope to do.Marky Dread wrote: ↑25 Mar 2020, 6:23pmWay too many great songs to hate a band like The Beatles. A fair few crap songs also but just too many to admire that set out a blue print for so many to follow.
I think their legendary status becomes a bit overbearing at times. You know it's The Beatles so it must be great blah blah. But some magical early pop nuggets followed by that psych period is just too good to deny.
Forces have been looting
My humanity
Curfews have been curbing
The end of liberty
We're the flowers in the dustbin...
No fuchsias for you.
"Without the common people you're nothing"
Nos Sumus Una Familia
- Dr. Medulla
- Atheistic Epileptic
- Posts: 116730
- Joined: 15 Jun 2008, 2:00pm
- Location: Straight Banana, Idaho
Re: The Beatles song you're thinking about right now thread
He's certainly not wrong about historically important things also being good (e.g., KISS are really important in this history of popular music, but they were largely garbage), but if his key criteria is sounding contemporary, then my assessment stands. But your other comment about him suggests he quite status conscious—the anxiety that comes from how others judge are aesthetic taste—yet he's never actually developed it. So, again, there's a lack of a foundation there. It's fine if you hang out with other trendy people—no one will notice—but people whose tastes are a bit more autonomous expose them.Kory wrote: ↑26 Mar 2020, 2:17pmI'm not sure how he'd respond to that. He's very analytical and lacking in emotion (I actually suspect he's a low-level sociopath), and I think a lot of his opinions on music and art come from what he's read and memorized (he's a medical doctor) rather than what he actually thinks (if he's even capable of coming up with his own opinions on it). I once caught him reciting program notes from a symphony we attended almost verbatim as his own opinion. The way he usually responds to stuff like the Beatles is "just because it's historically important doesn't mean it's good." Which is not wrong, I guess, but it does close his mind before he gives anything a chance.Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑26 Mar 2020, 1:33pmThat kind insularity to history, I've long thought, is a silent admission of one's own irrelevance. Unless you can somehow stay current, keeping up with trends, anything you once accomplished is garbage. It's a perspective without foundation because trend is by its very nature always evolving. It's a rather postmodern position, but one that illustrates to me what's so fundamentally horrible about postmodernism—that in rejecting standards, it rejects value of any kind because it's all utterly transitory.Kory wrote: ↑26 Mar 2020, 1:21pmI have a friend that is deeply resistant to liking things just because of historical context. If they don't still play well in the current time and not sound dated, he's not interested.Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑25 Mar 2020, 6:43pmIt's just a case where the kneejerk suspicion of lazy hype actually fails the cynical. It's insane to consider how far they came in such a short period and consistently dragged everyone else with them. I'm a solid social historian—that is, it's larger social trends and systems that dominate history, not "great men"—but the Beatles confound that. Their talent, personality, and restless curiosity actually steered things in ways that few other artists ever could hope to do.Marky Dread wrote: ↑25 Mar 2020, 6:23pmWay too many great songs to hate a band like The Beatles. A fair few crap songs also but just too many to admire that set out a blue print for so many to follow.
I think their legendary status becomes a bit overbearing at times. You know it's The Beatles so it must be great blah blah. But some magical early pop nuggets followed by that psych period is just too good to deny.
"Ain't no party like an S Club party!'" - Richard Nixon, Checkers Speech, abandoned early draft
Re: The Beatles song you're thinking about right now thread
Oh yes, one thing that I've learned about him since I met him in '96 is that his big motivator is his insecurity. He isn't winning until everyone in the room is aware of how much he "knows." Again, largely just rote memorization and recitation. Maybe a good skill for a doctor, but pretty annoying socially. Most people find him irritating as hell on first meeting, though he's a huge hit with the ladies almost universally, much to their eventual regret.Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑26 Mar 2020, 3:05pmHe's certainly not wrong about historically important things also being good (e.g., KISS are really important in this history of popular music, but they were largely garbage), but if his key criteria is sounding contemporary, then my assessment stands. But your other comment about him suggests he quite status conscious—the anxiety that comes from how others judge are aesthetic taste—yet he's never actually developed it. So, again, there's a lack of a foundation there. It's fine if you hang out with other trendy people—no one will notice—but people whose tastes are a bit more autonomous expose them.Kory wrote: ↑26 Mar 2020, 2:17pmI'm not sure how he'd respond to that. He's very analytical and lacking in emotion (I actually suspect he's a low-level sociopath), and I think a lot of his opinions on music and art come from what he's read and memorized (he's a medical doctor) rather than what he actually thinks (if he's even capable of coming up with his own opinions on it). I once caught him reciting program notes from a symphony we attended almost verbatim as his own opinion. The way he usually responds to stuff like the Beatles is "just because it's historically important doesn't mean it's good." Which is not wrong, I guess, but it does close his mind before he gives anything a chance.Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑26 Mar 2020, 1:33pmThat kind insularity to history, I've long thought, is a silent admission of one's own irrelevance. Unless you can somehow stay current, keeping up with trends, anything you once accomplished is garbage. It's a perspective without foundation because trend is by its very nature always evolving. It's a rather postmodern position, but one that illustrates to me what's so fundamentally horrible about postmodernism—that in rejecting standards, it rejects value of any kind because it's all utterly transitory.Kory wrote: ↑26 Mar 2020, 1:21pmI have a friend that is deeply resistant to liking things just because of historical context. If they don't still play well in the current time and not sound dated, he's not interested.Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑25 Mar 2020, 6:43pm
It's just a case where the kneejerk suspicion of lazy hype actually fails the cynical. It's insane to consider how far they came in such a short period and consistently dragged everyone else with them. I'm a solid social historian—that is, it's larger social trends and systems that dominate history, not "great men"—but the Beatles confound that. Their talent, personality, and restless curiosity actually steered things in ways that few other artists ever could hope to do.
"Suck our Earth dick, Martians!" —Doc
- Dr. Medulla
- Atheistic Epileptic
- Posts: 116730
- Joined: 15 Jun 2008, 2:00pm
- Location: Straight Banana, Idaho
Re: The Beatles song you're thinking about right now thread
An old phrase comes to mind—deep down, he's really quite shallow. But not unusual. I've known several people like that, and they tend to be aggressive with people who regard trendiness with some skepticism because, I assume, they're a threat to their own taste-based status. So it's a bit surprising you're friends. He's an example of the significance of what the French sociologist Pierre Bourdieu described as cultural capital. Unlike regular capital—basically, money—that divides us into classes, cultural capital breaks things down with the class based on our cultural knowledge and taste. Do you prefer opera or Garth Brooks? Do you vacation in the south of France or Disneyland? It can also extend to other demographics, such as music fans. Does your music taste make you elite or a dope? So it sounds like he tries to fake his cultural capital to appear elite. Fun and sad stuff.Kory wrote: ↑26 Mar 2020, 3:25pmOh yes, one thing that I've learned about him since I met him in '96 is that his big motivator is his insecurity. He isn't winning until everyone in the room is aware of how much he "knows." Again, largely just rote memorization and recitation. Maybe a good skill for a doctor, but pretty annoying socially. Most people find him irritating as hell on first meeting, though he's a huge hit with the ladies almost universally, much to their eventual regret.
"Ain't no party like an S Club party!'" - Richard Nixon, Checkers Speech, abandoned early draft
Re: The Beatles song you're thinking about right now thread
Yeah I question it with some frequency, but we have very similar senses of humor, so I get something out of that. As long as we don't talk about art quite as much it's a decent friendship. I think he's just so analytical that he doesn't really understand what makes art good, and so relies on pre-existing opinions to use as his own because he recognizes that an understanding of art is important to being a well-rounded person. It's all fairly cynical.Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑26 Mar 2020, 3:36pmAn old phrase comes to mind—deep down, he's really quite shallow. But not unusual. I've known several people like that, and they tend to be aggressive with people who regard trendiness with some skepticism because, I assume, they're a threat to their own taste-based status. So it's a bit surprising you're friends. He's an example of the significance of what the French sociologist Pierre Bourdieu described as cultural capital. Unlike regular capital—basically, money—that divides us into classes, cultural capital breaks things down with the class based on our cultural knowledge and taste. Do you prefer opera or Garth Brooks? Do you vacation in the south of France or Disneyland? It can also extend to other demographics, such as music fans. Does your music taste make you elite or a dope? So it sounds like he tries to fake his cultural capital to appear elite. Fun and sad stuff.Kory wrote: ↑26 Mar 2020, 3:25pmOh yes, one thing that I've learned about him since I met him in '96 is that his big motivator is his insecurity. He isn't winning until everyone in the room is aware of how much he "knows." Again, largely just rote memorization and recitation. Maybe a good skill for a doctor, but pretty annoying socially. Most people find him irritating as hell on first meeting, though he's a huge hit with the ladies almost universally, much to their eventual regret.
"Suck our Earth dick, Martians!" —Doc
- Dr. Medulla
- Atheistic Epileptic
- Posts: 116730
- Joined: 15 Jun 2008, 2:00pm
- Location: Straight Banana, Idaho
Re: The Beatles song you're thinking about right now thread
Yeah, quite mercenary. Smart enough to realize that this stuff matters to other people, but not enough to either develop an authentic sense of taste or just opt out altogether.Kory wrote: ↑26 Mar 2020, 3:45pmYeah I question it with some frequency, but we have very similar senses of humor, so I get something out of that. As long as we don't talk about art quite as much it's a decent friendship. I think he's just so analytical that he doesn't really understand what makes art good, and so relies on pre-existing opinions to use as his own because he recognizes that an understanding of art is important to being a well-rounded person. It's all fairly cynical.Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑26 Mar 2020, 3:36pmAn old phrase comes to mind—deep down, he's really quite shallow. But not unusual. I've known several people like that, and they tend to be aggressive with people who regard trendiness with some skepticism because, I assume, they're a threat to their own taste-based status. So it's a bit surprising you're friends. He's an example of the significance of what the French sociologist Pierre Bourdieu described as cultural capital. Unlike regular capital—basically, money—that divides us into classes, cultural capital breaks things down with the class based on our cultural knowledge and taste. Do you prefer opera or Garth Brooks? Do you vacation in the south of France or Disneyland? It can also extend to other demographics, such as music fans. Does your music taste make you elite or a dope? So it sounds like he tries to fake his cultural capital to appear elite. Fun and sad stuff.Kory wrote: ↑26 Mar 2020, 3:25pmOh yes, one thing that I've learned about him since I met him in '96 is that his big motivator is his insecurity. He isn't winning until everyone in the room is aware of how much he "knows." Again, largely just rote memorization and recitation. Maybe a good skill for a doctor, but pretty annoying socially. Most people find him irritating as hell on first meeting, though he's a huge hit with the ladies almost universally, much to their eventual regret.
"Ain't no party like an S Club party!'" - Richard Nixon, Checkers Speech, abandoned early draft