I'll have to dust off Ralph's book, that probably covers this topic most definitively.Marky Dread wrote: ↑18 Jun 2020, 6:17pmAccording to Wikipedia their page claims it was Joe's suggestion to use synth drums to compete with TIBAD.Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑18 Jun 2020, 8:29amIt all seems irrational, doesn't it? That's why I resist more rational explanations. These were choices or deferrals of someone not thinking rationally.Marky Dread wrote: ↑18 Jun 2020, 7:48amYes I feel I want to accept this from the heart. My head says what the heck though.Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑18 Jun 2020, 6:29amThe disagreement might be over how we interpret sabotage. I don't believe Joe handed things over to Bernie believing or hoping that BR would run it through his large intestine. I can't believe that Joe would be that contemptuous of the fans or the reputation of the band to consciously seek a wretched, band-destroying record. Unconsciously, tho, perhaps, as a way of punishing himself and/or looking for a way out. Or perhaps his confidence and vision was so lost that he trusted the person who claimed he had that vision, even if he should have known Bernie didn't know what he was doing. So of course Joe bears responsibility for the mess, but I regard it as indirect—a step or two removed—than direct.Marky Dread wrote: ↑17 Jun 2020, 8:47pmI argued before that I think Joe sabotaged this record and you said I was being harsh as you felt Joe wasn't in a good place. But he sabotaged it by giving Bernie the reins.
Clash producers:
Mickey Foote
The Clash
Sandy Pearlman
Bill Price
Glyn Johns
Bernie Rhodes
Intentional sabotage probably not in the way Joe would crap on the fans. But before the fans get to hear something the band have to record the thing. In this case the band did not record the album. Remember these were the guys that Joe had spent the last couple of years with knocking up the songs and getting them into shape. Then they don't get to play on them. I want to know if Joe was there when the decision was made to not use Pete Howard and go with those bloody synth drums etc.
EET week is on us, rejoice or repent
Re: EET week is on us, rejoice or repent
Look, you have to establish context for these things. And I maintain that unless you appreciate the Fall of Constantinople, the Great Fire of London, and Mickey Mantle's fatalist alcoholism, live Freddy makes no sense. If you want to half-ass it, fine, go call Simon Schama to do the appendix.
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Re: EET week is on us, rejoice or repent
I've got it but I can't remember that being mentioned.matedog wrote: ↑18 Jun 2020, 6:29pmI'll have to dust off Ralph's book, that probably covers this topic most definitively.Marky Dread wrote: ↑18 Jun 2020, 6:17pmAccording to Wikipedia their page claims it was Joe's suggestion to use synth drums to compete with TIBAD.Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑18 Jun 2020, 8:29amIt all seems irrational, doesn't it? That's why I resist more rational explanations. These were choices or deferrals of someone not thinking rationally.Marky Dread wrote: ↑18 Jun 2020, 7:48amYes I feel I want to accept this from the heart. My head says what the heck though.Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑18 Jun 2020, 6:29am
The disagreement might be over how we interpret sabotage. I don't believe Joe handed things over to Bernie believing or hoping that BR would run it through his large intestine. I can't believe that Joe would be that contemptuous of the fans or the reputation of the band to consciously seek a wretched, band-destroying record. Unconsciously, tho, perhaps, as a way of punishing himself and/or looking for a way out. Or perhaps his confidence and vision was so lost that he trusted the person who claimed he had that vision, even if he should have known Bernie didn't know what he was doing. So of course Joe bears responsibility for the mess, but I regard it as indirect—a step or two removed—than direct.
Clash producers:
Mickey Foote
The Clash
Sandy Pearlman
Bill Price
Glyn Johns
Bernie Rhodes
Intentional sabotage probably not in the way Joe would crap on the fans. But before the fans get to hear something the band have to record the thing. In this case the band did not record the album. Remember these were the guys that Joe had spent the last couple of years with knocking up the songs and getting them into shape. Then they don't get to play on them. I want to know if Joe was there when the decision was made to not use Pete Howard and go with those bloody synth drums etc.
Forces have been looting
My humanity
Curfews have been curbing
The end of liberty
We're the flowers in the dustbin...
No fuchsias for you.
"Without the common people you're nothing"
Nos Sumus Una Familia
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Re: EET week is on us, rejoice or repent
I've often wondered why the record company agreed to release it. Didn't anyone listen to it?Marky Dread wrote: ↑18 Jun 2020, 7:49pmI've got it but I can't remember that being mentioned.matedog wrote: ↑18 Jun 2020, 6:29pmI'll have to dust off Ralph's book, that probably covers this topic most definitively.Marky Dread wrote: ↑18 Jun 2020, 6:17pmAccording to Wikipedia their page claims it was Joe's suggestion to use synth drums to compete with TIBAD.Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑18 Jun 2020, 8:29amIt all seems irrational, doesn't it? That's why I resist more rational explanations. These were choices or deferrals of someone not thinking rationally.Marky Dread wrote: ↑18 Jun 2020, 7:48am
Yes I feel I want to accept this from the heart. My head says what the heck though.
Clash producers:
Mickey Foote
The Clash
Sandy Pearlman
Bill Price
Glyn Johns
Bernie Rhodes
Intentional sabotage probably not in the way Joe would crap on the fans. But before the fans get to hear something the band have to record the thing. In this case the band did not record the album. Remember these were the guys that Joe had spent the last couple of years with knocking up the songs and getting them into shape. Then they don't get to play on them. I want to know if Joe was there when the decision was made to not use Pete Howard and go with those bloody synth drums etc.
In space no one can hear you clash!
https://www.rmillerthings.com/
https://www.rmillerthings.com/
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Re: EET week is on us, rejoice or repent
Yep and probably thought it sounded like a lot of the shit that was in the charts at that that time.JoseUnidos wrote: ↑18 Jun 2020, 11:49pmI've often wondered why the record company agreed to release it. Didn't anyone listen to it?Marky Dread wrote: ↑18 Jun 2020, 7:49pmI've got it but I can't remember that being mentioned.matedog wrote: ↑18 Jun 2020, 6:29pmI'll have to dust off Ralph's book, that probably covers this topic most definitively.Marky Dread wrote: ↑18 Jun 2020, 6:17pmAccording to Wikipedia their page claims it was Joe's suggestion to use synth drums to compete with TIBAD.Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑18 Jun 2020, 8:29am
It all seems irrational, doesn't it? That's why I resist more rational explanations. These were choices or deferrals of someone not thinking rationally.
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Re: EET week is on us, rejoice or repent
Well they had already released "This Is England". And that charted at number 24 so I guess it was business as usual.JoseUnidos wrote: ↑18 Jun 2020, 11:49pmI've often wondered why the record company agreed to release it. Didn't anyone listen to it?Marky Dread wrote: ↑18 Jun 2020, 7:49pmI've got it but I can't remember that being mentioned.matedog wrote: ↑18 Jun 2020, 6:29pmI'll have to dust off Ralph's book, that probably covers this topic most definitively.Marky Dread wrote: ↑18 Jun 2020, 6:17pmAccording to Wikipedia their page claims it was Joe's suggestion to use synth drums to compete with TIBAD.Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑18 Jun 2020, 8:29am
It all seems irrational, doesn't it? That's why I resist more rational explanations. These were choices or deferrals of someone not thinking rationally.
Forces have been looting
My humanity
Curfews have been curbing
The end of liberty
We're the flowers in the dustbin...
No fuchsias for you.
"Without the common people you're nothing"
Nos Sumus Una Familia
Re: EET week is on us, rejoice or repent
Plus three years since their breakthrough hit. They were probably desperate for anything at this point.Marky Dread wrote: ↑19 Jun 2020, 5:02amWell they had already released "This Is England". And that charted at number 24 so I guess it was business as usual.JoseUnidos wrote: ↑18 Jun 2020, 11:49pmI've often wondered why the record company agreed to release it. Didn't anyone listen to it?Marky Dread wrote: ↑18 Jun 2020, 7:49pmI've got it but I can't remember that being mentioned.matedog wrote: ↑18 Jun 2020, 6:29pmI'll have to dust off Ralph's book, that probably covers this topic most definitively.Marky Dread wrote: ↑18 Jun 2020, 6:17pm
According to Wikipedia their page claims it was Joe's suggestion to use synth drums to compete with TIBAD.
Look, you have to establish context for these things. And I maintain that unless you appreciate the Fall of Constantinople, the Great Fire of London, and Mickey Mantle's fatalist alcoholism, live Freddy makes no sense. If you want to half-ass it, fine, go call Simon Schama to do the appendix.
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Re: EET week is on us, rejoice or repent
I'm still surprised no one at a company like CBS said "hold on boys, this sounds like it was mixed by a gorilla with boxing gloves on."matedog wrote: ↑19 Jun 2020, 9:58amPlus three years since their breakthrough hit. They were probably desperate for anything at this point.Marky Dread wrote: ↑19 Jun 2020, 5:02amWell they had already released "This Is England". And that charted at number 24 so I guess it was business as usual.JoseUnidos wrote: ↑18 Jun 2020, 11:49pmI've often wondered why the record company agreed to release it. Didn't anyone listen to it?
There's a tiny, tiny hopeful part of me that says you guys are running a Kaufmanesque long con on the board
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Re: EET week is on us, rejoice or repent
This is the same company that thought Bankrobber sounded like Bowie played backwards, right?Heston wrote: ↑19 Jun 2020, 11:39amI'm still surprised no one at a company like CBS said "hold on boys, this sounds like it was mixed by a gorilla with boxing gloves on."matedog wrote: ↑19 Jun 2020, 9:58amPlus three years since their breakthrough hit. They were probably desperate for anything at this point.Marky Dread wrote: ↑19 Jun 2020, 5:02amWell they had already released "This Is England". And that charted at number 24 so I guess it was business as usual.JoseUnidos wrote: ↑18 Jun 2020, 11:49pmI've often wondered why the record company agreed to release it. Didn't anyone listen to it?
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"But the gorilla thinks otherwise!"
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Re: EET week is on us, rejoice or repent
Record companies were not well-staffed with people who knew how to market bands like the Clash. If CTC sounded like garbage—ah, but futuristic garbage!—those in charge were just as likely to think that that's what those crazy kids are into these days. The first, middle, and last concern of a record company is about how to market a record or an artist, not whether they're "good." If someone figured CTC could be marketed as a "punk" record, there you go, that's it.
"I used to bullseye womp rats in my T-16 back in Whittier, they're not much bigger than two meters.'" - Richard Nixon, Checkers Speech, abandoned early draft
Re: EET week is on us, rejoice or repent
Didn't music kinda sound like this in 1985 too? TIBAD is stylistically similar just much more competently executed. As Doc noted, I doubt CBS had any idea what to do with the band. Combat Rock was probably not something anyone expected to be a big hit, so they probably thought the same with CTC.
Look, you have to establish context for these things. And I maintain that unless you appreciate the Fall of Constantinople, the Great Fire of London, and Mickey Mantle's fatalist alcoholism, live Freddy makes no sense. If you want to half-ass it, fine, go call Simon Schama to do the appendix.
- Heston
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Re: EET week is on us, rejoice or repent
It's more the mix than the production that I thought someone would have caught. Vocals and instruments just totally disappear at times.matedog wrote: ↑19 Jun 2020, 1:36pmDidn't music kinda sound like this in 1985 too? TIBAD is stylistically similar just much more competently executed. As Doc noted, I doubt CBS had any idea what to do with the band. Combat Rock was probably not something anyone expected to be a big hit, so they probably thought the same with CTC.
There's a tiny, tiny hopeful part of me that says you guys are running a Kaufmanesque long con on the board
Re: EET week is on us, rejoice or repent
Skimming the book, there is extensive discussions starting around page 239, mostly from Fayne, basically saying that Bernie was in charge (and to a certain extent Kosmo?), he dictated the use of the drum machine (to be modern). The speculation in the book (including a quote from Vince) was that taking the reins was born out of competition with Malcolm McLaren and his recent Buffalo Gals and Double Dutch hits. I'll have to read a bit more.Marky Dread wrote: ↑18 Jun 2020, 7:49pmI've got it but I can't remember that being mentioned.matedog wrote: ↑18 Jun 2020, 6:29pmI'll have to dust off Ralph's book, that probably covers this topic most definitively.Marky Dread wrote: ↑18 Jun 2020, 6:17pmAccording to Wikipedia their page claims it was Joe's suggestion to use synth drums to compete with TIBAD.Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑18 Jun 2020, 8:29amIt all seems irrational, doesn't it? That's why I resist more rational explanations. These were choices or deferrals of someone not thinking rationally.Marky Dread wrote: ↑18 Jun 2020, 7:48am
Yes I feel I want to accept this from the heart. My head says what the heck though.
Clash producers:
Mickey Foote
The Clash
Sandy Pearlman
Bill Price
Glyn Johns
Bernie Rhodes
Intentional sabotage probably not in the way Joe would crap on the fans. But before the fans get to hear something the band have to record the thing. In this case the band did not record the album. Remember these were the guys that Joe had spent the last couple of years with knocking up the songs and getting them into shape. Then they don't get to play on them. I want to know if Joe was there when the decision was made to not use Pete Howard and go with those bloody synth drums etc.
Look, you have to establish context for these things. And I maintain that unless you appreciate the Fall of Constantinople, the Great Fire of London, and Mickey Mantle's fatalist alcoholism, live Freddy makes no sense. If you want to half-ass it, fine, go call Simon Schama to do the appendix.
- Marky Dread
- Messiah of the Milk Bar
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Re: EET week is on us, rejoice or repent
Yeah I've heard the Malcolm/Bernie things many times. Joe himself has said this. If Bernie had dictated the use of the drum machine I just can't believe that Joe stood by as Pete was airbrushed aside.matedog wrote: ↑19 Jun 2020, 2:00pmSkimming the book, there is extensive discussions starting around page 239, mostly from Fayne, basically saying that Bernie was in charge (and to a certain extent Kosmo?), he dictated the use of the drum machine (to be modern). The speculation in the book (including a quote from Vince) was that taking the reins was born out of competition with Malcolm McLaren and his recent Buffalo Gals and Double Dutch hits. I'll have to read a bit more.Marky Dread wrote: ↑18 Jun 2020, 7:49pmI've got it but I can't remember that being mentioned.matedog wrote: ↑18 Jun 2020, 6:29pmI'll have to dust off Ralph's book, that probably covers this topic most definitively.Marky Dread wrote: ↑18 Jun 2020, 6:17pmAccording to Wikipedia their page claims it was Joe's suggestion to use synth drums to compete with TIBAD.Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑18 Jun 2020, 8:29am
It all seems irrational, doesn't it? That's why I resist more rational explanations. These were choices or deferrals of someone not thinking rationally.
Forces have been looting
My humanity
Curfews have been curbing
The end of liberty
We're the flowers in the dustbin...
No fuchsias for you.
"Without the common people you're nothing"
Nos Sumus Una Familia
- 101Walterton
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- Joined: 15 Jun 2008, 5:36pm
- Location: Volcanic Rock In The Pacific
Re: EET week is on us, rejoice or repent
Exactly, as I said above.matedog wrote: ↑19 Jun 2020, 1:36pmDidn't music kinda sound like this in 1985 too? TIBAD is stylistically similar just much more competently executed. As Doc noted, I doubt CBS had any idea what to do with the band. Combat Rock was probably not something anyone expected to be a big hit, so they probably thought the same with CTC.
Re: EET week is on us, rejoice or repent
I was listening to some crap earlier and wonder how much/if any bass on that is actually keyboard.