I completely agree. I've seen the rage firsthand and while I can never know what 400 years of oppression feels like, I've been encouraged by many local activists over the past few months. They are actively working to build a community and to unite people of all colors behind a common cause. The protest on Monday was a great example. It was well organized. It was peaceful. It was about coming together and it was anti-violence. It was a call to channel anger for good trouble: registering people to vote, getting involved in local politics, making change. I did see a lot of anger and that anger was justified: a man was shot in the back 7 times and there has been no accountability for that. I saw the burned out garbage trucks and buildings. I know the city descended into violence again later that night. It got violent last night, leaving 2 people dead. I just don't see violence as a way forward. The rage and the frustration are real, but I believe channeling those emotions into making change is a far better tactic.Marky Dread wrote: ↑26 Aug 2020, 6:49amThank you. My intention in this discussion was not to those people who are suffering day by day. My view is not that I consider them morons. But that is how they are being perceived to be in the hands of those who make the rules and hold the positions of power.Silent Majority wrote: ↑26 Aug 2020, 6:20amI don't necessarily agree with Mark's position on this, but I absolutely read the sentence that pushed the discussion into an argument as the opinion of the oppressor, not his own.Marky Dread wrote: ↑25 Aug 2020, 3:01pmI there ever was a simple answer then we would of had it by now. You can not stamp out racism just like you can't stamp out hatred. Am I saying sit down and give up, no never but you will achieve nothing with violence. It has never solved a single thing except to heap more misery on those that have already endured enough. Those in power want you to get angry they want you to fight. So they can have an excuse to keep you down. They want you to know they think you are stupid and violence just plays directly into their hands. You are all stupid morons who know no better than to riot or to go looting. It's the biggest con trick on the masses ever. People are falling for it time and time again.BostonBeaneater wrote: ↑25 Aug 2020, 2:23pmI've witnessed a riot but I have not had my ass kicked by the cops. My black friends have had their ass kicked by cops... endlessly and exhaustively. To their great credit they have tried every single avenue of peaceful protest and they still live in fear in this country. I have never seen a bully changes through reasonable discussion. They (police and their backers) must be made afraid and unsafe where ever they go. In other words, racists and their armed goon army should be made to feel the way they make others feel.Marky Dread wrote: ↑25 Aug 2020, 1:55pm
It's not a population. A population is everybody.
Stand up and protest make your voices heard. The common man is the bus driver, the train driver, the nurse, the refuge collector. If one person gets hurt or killed in these protests it's one too many. Violence is understandable but never the answer. Your welcome to your point of view but you are wrong.
Ever been in a riot? Ever had the shit kicked out of you for something you believed strongly in? Broken nose? Stabbed? Seen your friend die? If not come back and tell when you have and then tell me violence is the answer.
Look, I understand the perspective of violence as a last resort. I am just saying it is time for some last resorts. I'm 45 years old and have seem the police and surveillance state grow stronger and crueler. In my opinion that will not change until these people face consequences.
I'm not playing tough guy or promoting senseless violence. That said, you have to punch back. I'd love to hear about some magically peaceful solution but I have been waiting along time.
People can decide and act for themselves how they see fit. I respected Westway Kid who I was having the original conversation with for showing solidarity and protesting in a peaceful fashion.
Violence is certain to occur in these situations and with emotions running so high its totally understandable. But burning down the neighbourhoods you are living in is not the answer. Violence only adds to the fear factor of the already vulnerable people who live in those neighbourhoods. All I'm saying is rise above and find another solution. There's got to be a better way.
No, No, Don't Worry. Racism is Pretty Much Over.
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Re: No, No, Don't Worry. Racism is Pretty Much Over.
"They don't think it be like it is, but it do." - Oscar Gamble
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Re: No, No, Don't Worry. Racism is Pretty Much Over.
Word on the street (and this needs to be confirmed) is that the shootings that left 2 dead in Kenosha last night were committed by armed white people who had come to Kenosha to "protect" property. I know they were there because they were proudly posting photos on social media. If so, I want to see murder charges brought down.
"They don't think it be like it is, but it do." - Oscar Gamble
Re: No, No, Don't Worry. Racism is Pretty Much Over.
Well shit those Jortsville nutjobs were hailed as heroes the other night during the Republican Party's quadrennial Nuremberg rally. Those brave people protected their house from unarmed peaceful citizens walking down the street.WestwayKid wrote: ↑26 Aug 2020, 10:22amWord on the street (and this needs to be confirmed) is that the shootings that left 2 dead in Kenosha last night were committed by armed white people who had come to Kenosha to "protect" property. I know they were there because they were proudly posting photos on social media. If so, I want to see murder charges brought down.
There have been plenty of right wing provocateurs involved in many of these protests no doubt some "very fine people ".
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Re: No, No, Don't Worry. Racism is Pretty Much Over.
This is exactly how I feel. Well articulated mate.WestwayKid wrote: ↑26 Aug 2020, 9:46amI completely agree. I've seen the rage firsthand and while I can never know what 400 years of oppression feels like, I've been encouraged by many local activists over the past few months. They are actively working to build a community and to unite people of all colors behind a common cause. The protest on Monday was a great example. It was well organized. It was peaceful. It was about coming together and it was anti-violence. It was a call to channel anger for good trouble: registering people to vote, getting involved in local politics, making change. I did see a lot of anger and that anger was justified: a man was shot in the back 7 times and there has been no accountability for that. I saw the burned out garbage trucks and buildings. I know the city descended into violence again later that night. It got violent last night, leaving 2 people dead. I just don't see violence as a way forward. The rage and the frustration are real, but I believe channeling those emotions into making change is a far better tactic.Marky Dread wrote: ↑26 Aug 2020, 6:49amThank you. My intention in this discussion was not to those people who are suffering day by day. My view is not that I consider them morons. But that is how they are being perceived to be in the hands of those who make the rules and hold the positions of power.Silent Majority wrote: ↑26 Aug 2020, 6:20amI don't necessarily agree with Mark's position on this, but I absolutely read the sentence that pushed the discussion into an argument as the opinion of the oppressor, not his own.Marky Dread wrote: ↑25 Aug 2020, 3:01pmI there ever was a simple answer then we would of had it by now. You can not stamp out racism just like you can't stamp out hatred. Am I saying sit down and give up, no never but you will achieve nothing with violence. It has never solved a single thing except to heap more misery on those that have already endured enough. Those in power want you to get angry they want you to fight. So they can have an excuse to keep you down. They want you to know they think you are stupid and violence just plays directly into their hands. You are all stupid morons who know no better than to riot or to go looting. It's the biggest con trick on the masses ever. People are falling for it time and time again.BostonBeaneater wrote: ↑25 Aug 2020, 2:23pm
I've witnessed a riot but I have not had my ass kicked by the cops. My black friends have had their ass kicked by cops... endlessly and exhaustively. To their great credit they have tried every single avenue of peaceful protest and they still live in fear in this country. I have never seen a bully changes through reasonable discussion. They (police and their backers) must be made afraid and unsafe where ever they go. In other words, racists and their armed goon army should be made to feel the way they make others feel.
Look, I understand the perspective of violence as a last resort. I am just saying it is time for some last resorts. I'm 45 years old and have seem the police and surveillance state grow stronger and crueler. In my opinion that will not change until these people face consequences.
I'm not playing tough guy or promoting senseless violence. That said, you have to punch back. I'd love to hear about some magically peaceful solution but I have been waiting along time.
People can decide and act for themselves how they see fit. I respected Westway Kid who I was having the original conversation with for showing solidarity and protesting in a peaceful fashion.
Violence is certain to occur in these situations and with emotions running so high its totally understandable. But burning down the neighbourhoods you are living in is not the answer. Violence only adds to the fear factor of the already vulnerable people who live in those neighbourhoods. All I'm saying is rise above and find another solution. There's got to be a better way.
Forces have been looting
My humanity
Curfews have been curbing
The end of liberty
We're the flowers in the dustbin...
No fuchsias for you.
"Without the common people you're nothing"
Nos Sumus Una Familia
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Re: No, No, Don't Worry. Racism is Pretty Much Over.
This stuff is complete madness.revbob wrote: ↑26 Aug 2020, 10:33amWell shit those Jortsville nutjobs were hailed as heroes the other night during the Republican Party's quadrennial Nuremberg rally. Those brave people protected their house from unarmed peaceful citizens walking down the street.WestwayKid wrote: ↑26 Aug 2020, 10:22amWord on the street (and this needs to be confirmed) is that the shootings that left 2 dead in Kenosha last night were committed by armed white people who had come to Kenosha to "protect" property. I know they were there because they were proudly posting photos on social media. If so, I want to see murder charges brought down.
There have been plenty of right wing provocateurs involved in many of these protests no doubt some "very fine people ".
Forces have been looting
My humanity
Curfews have been curbing
The end of liberty
We're the flowers in the dustbin...
No fuchsias for you.
"Without the common people you're nothing"
Nos Sumus Una Familia
- WestwayKid
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Re: No, No, Don't Worry. Racism is Pretty Much Over.
They have apparently identified the shooter. He is (surprise, surprise) a far right extremist. There is footage of him outside last night with an automatic rifle. There is also footage from earlier in the night where some Kenosha cops tell him and his friends that they appreciate them being out there and then offer them bottled water. It really is complete madness. I'm hoping for the best, but I feel like things are really going to erupt tonight. I feel it's only a matter of time before a cop gets taken out.Marky Dread wrote: ↑26 Aug 2020, 10:44amThis stuff is complete madness.revbob wrote: ↑26 Aug 2020, 10:33amWell shit those Jortsville nutjobs were hailed as heroes the other night during the Republican Party's quadrennial Nuremberg rally. Those brave people protected their house from unarmed peaceful citizens walking down the street.WestwayKid wrote: ↑26 Aug 2020, 10:22amWord on the street (and this needs to be confirmed) is that the shootings that left 2 dead in Kenosha last night were committed by armed white people who had come to Kenosha to "protect" property. I know they were there because they were proudly posting photos on social media. If so, I want to see murder charges brought down.
There have been plenty of right wing provocateurs involved in many of these protests no doubt some "very fine people ".
"They don't think it be like it is, but it do." - Oscar Gamble
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Re: No, No, Don't Worry. Racism is Pretty Much Over.
Shooter is 17 years old.
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Re: No, No, Don't Worry. Racism is Pretty Much Over.
I clearly see above that you called me a moron hence my reaction. Then I pissed you off with my stand on violence which was so offensive you threatened violence. So, whatever. I'm done with you too.Marky Dread wrote: ↑26 Aug 2020, 3:48amThink what you like I insulted no one. You're the only one here who insulted anybody.BostonBeaneater wrote: ↑25 Aug 2020, 10:52pmPlease, grow up. You started slinging the insults around. You can believe whatever you want. I just re-read your words and I think you're an asshole. You sound like a cop.Marky Dread wrote: ↑25 Aug 2020, 9:14pmOh boy did you read that wrong. I didnt insult anybody. That highlighted part is not my opinion of people but of those that are in power. Never mind you've lowered the conversation now.BostonBeaneater wrote: ↑25 Aug 2020, 8:33pmAlright then, If we're throwing insults around then you're a great big pussy who might as well just go lick some cops boots. I tried to illustrate a point and you have to go wet your pants over it. Peaceful protest, in my view and from what I have seen, doesn't work very often.Marky Dread wrote: ↑25 Aug 2020, 3:01pm
I there ever was a simple answer then we would of had it by now. You can not stamp out racism just like you can't stamp out hatred. Am I saying sit down and give up, no never but you will achieve nothing with violence. It has never solved a single thing except to heap more misery on those that have already endured enough. Those in power want you to get angry they want you to fight. So they can have an excuse to keep you down. They want you to know they think you are stupid and violence just plays directly into their hands. You are all stupid morons who know no better than to riot or to go looting. It's the biggest con trick on the masses ever. People are falling for it time and time again.
As for me being a "great big pussy" seriously you wouldn't last 5 seconds with me. Yep you've illustrated things perfectly.
So I sound like a cop? You've clearly lost the plot.
You took my comment out of context. It clearly says "Those in power". Then you called me a "pussy" "asshole" "sound like a cop".
You are the one who wants to act with "violence" funny coming from a guy who likes to post pictures of himself at the shooting range.
I'm done with you.
Protect peacefully all you want, the goons are going to shoot you anyway.
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Re: No, No, Don't Worry. Racism is Pretty Much Over.
Absolutely.Silent Majority wrote: ↑26 Aug 2020, 6:20amI don't necessarily agree with Mark's position on this, but I absolutely read the sentence that pushed the discussion into an argument as the opinion of the oppressor, not his own.Marky Dread wrote: ↑25 Aug 2020, 3:01pmI there ever was a simple answer then we would of had it by now. You can not stamp out racism just like you can't stamp out hatred. Am I saying sit down and give up, no never but you will achieve nothing with violence. It has never solved a single thing except to heap more misery on those that have already endured enough. Those in power want you to get angry they want you to fight. So they can have an excuse to keep you down. They want you to know they think you are stupid and violence just plays directly into their hands. You are all stupid morons who know no better than to riot or to go looting. It's the biggest con trick on the masses ever. People are falling for it time and time again.BostonBeaneater wrote: ↑25 Aug 2020, 2:23pmI've witnessed a riot but I have not had my ass kicked by the cops. My black friends have had their ass kicked by cops... endlessly and exhaustively. To their great credit they have tried every single avenue of peaceful protest and they still live in fear in this country. I have never seen a bully changes through reasonable discussion. They (police and their backers) must be made afraid and unsafe where ever they go. In other words, racists and their armed goon army should be made to feel the way they make others feel.Marky Dread wrote: ↑25 Aug 2020, 1:55pmIt's not a population. A population is everybody.BostonBeaneater wrote: ↑25 Aug 2020, 1:43pm
When a population is hunted and murdered in the streets, yes to violence. Those who favor a police state only know that language. They must be made beaten and made afraid.
Stand up and protest make your voices heard. The common man is the bus driver, the train driver, the nurse, the refuge collector. If one person gets hurt or killed in these protests it's one too many. Violence is understandable but never the answer. Your welcome to your point of view but you are wrong.
Ever been in a riot? Ever had the shit kicked out of you for something you believed strongly in? Broken nose? Stabbed? Seen your friend die? If not come back and tell when you have and then tell me violence is the answer.
Look, I understand the perspective of violence as a last resort. I am just saying it is time for some last resorts. I'm 45 years old and have seem the police and surveillance state grow stronger and crueler. In my opinion that will not change until these people face consequences.
I'm not playing tough guy or promoting senseless violence. That said, you have to punch back. I'd love to hear about some magically peaceful solution but I have been waiting along time.
There's a tiny, tiny hopeful part of me that says you guys are running a Kaufmanesque long con on the board
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Re: No, No, Don't Worry. Racism is Pretty Much Over.
You're the only one reading it that way. Never mind. Stay safe.BostonBeaneater wrote: ↑26 Aug 2020, 12:09pmI clearly see above that you called me a moron hence my reaction. Then I pissed you off with my stand on violence which was so offensive you threatened violence. So, whatever. I'm done with you too.Marky Dread wrote: ↑26 Aug 2020, 3:48amThink what you like I insulted no one. You're the only one here who insulted anybody.BostonBeaneater wrote: ↑25 Aug 2020, 10:52pmPlease, grow up. You started slinging the insults around. You can believe whatever you want. I just re-read your words and I think you're an asshole. You sound like a cop.Marky Dread wrote: ↑25 Aug 2020, 9:14pmOh boy did you read that wrong. I didnt insult anybody. That highlighted part is not my opinion of people but of those that are in power. Never mind you've lowered the conversation now.BostonBeaneater wrote: ↑25 Aug 2020, 8:33pm
Alright then, If we're throwing insults around then you're a great big pussy who might as well just go lick some cops boots. I tried to illustrate a point and you have to go wet your pants over it. Peaceful protest, in my view and from what I have seen, doesn't work very often.
As for me being a "great big pussy" seriously you wouldn't last 5 seconds with me. Yep you've illustrated things perfectly.
So I sound like a cop? You've clearly lost the plot.
You took my comment out of context. It clearly says "Those in power". Then you called me a "pussy" "asshole" "sound like a cop".
You are the one who wants to act with "violence" funny coming from a guy who likes to post pictures of himself at the shooting range.
I'm done with you.
Protect peacefully all you want, the goons are going to shoot you anyway.
Forces have been looting
My humanity
Curfews have been curbing
The end of liberty
We're the flowers in the dustbin...
No fuchsias for you.
"Without the common people you're nothing"
Nos Sumus Una Familia
Re: No, No, Don't Worry. Racism is Pretty Much Over.
Looks like they arrested him.
I just don't understand how someone can watch that video and not think we need to disarm everyone.
Look, you have to establish context for these things. And I maintain that unless you appreciate the Fall of Constantinople, the Great Fire of London, and Mickey Mantle's fatalist alcoholism, live Freddy makes no sense. If you want to half-ass it, fine, go call Simon Schama to do the appendix.
- WestwayKid
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Re: No, No, Don't Worry. Racism is Pretty Much Over.
Yes, he thankfully was arrested and charged with 2 counts of 1st degree murder.
"They don't think it be like it is, but it do." - Oscar Gamble
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Re: No, No, Don't Worry. Racism is Pretty Much Over.
I have a bunch of mixed feelings on the efficacy of violence (and how we even define "violence"), as well as gun control (and I'm sure a search on these forums would reveal shifting, ping-ponging views from me over the years). I generally don't feel qualified to say with authority what's right or wrong from moral, strategic or tactical perspectives and my position as a white, male middle class person largely disqualifies whatever I'd have to say anyways other than: I support the views, even when they're contradictory, of movements of liberation and my goal is not to undermine shit.
Except, I will say it's deeply fucked up that we categorize the destruction of property as "violence" as if it was a person being attacked. Burning down a thousand Targets and smashing a thousand Starbucks windows doesn't begin to compare to the cops (or some psycho militia nut) murdering a single person. That I'm pretty confident about.
Except, I will say it's deeply fucked up that we categorize the destruction of property as "violence" as if it was a person being attacked. Burning down a thousand Targets and smashing a thousand Starbucks windows doesn't begin to compare to the cops (or some psycho militia nut) murdering a single person. That I'm pretty confident about.
Wiggle, wiggle, wiggle like a bowl of soup
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Wiggle, wiggle, wiggle like a ton of lead
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Wiggle, wiggle, wiggle like a rolling hoop
Wiggle, wiggle, wiggle like a ton of lead
Wiggle - you can raise the dead
Pex Lives!
Re: No, No, Don't Worry. Racism is Pretty Much Over.
I totally agree with that. Where I have a problem is when performative rose twitter types start burning down small businesses owned by BIPOC and immigrants.Flex wrote: ↑26 Aug 2020, 2:28pmI have a bunch of mixed feelings on the efficacy of violence (and how we even define "violence"), as well as gun control (and I'm sure a search on these forums would reveal shifting, ping-ponging views from me over the years). I generally don't feel qualified to say with authority what's right or wrong from moral, strategic or tactical perspectives and my position as a white, male middle class person largely disqualifies whatever I'd have to say anyways other than: I support the views, even when they're contradictory, of movements of liberation and my goal is not to undermine shit.
Except, I will say it's deeply fucked up that we categorize the destruction of property as "violence" as if it was a person being attacked. Burning down a thousand Targets and smashing a thousand Starbucks windows doesn't begin to compare to the cops (or some psycho militia nut) murdering a single person. That I'm pretty confident about.
Got a Rake? Sure!
IMCT: Inane Middle-Class Twats - Dr. M
" *sigh* it's right when they throw the penis pump out the window." -Hoy
IMCT: Inane Middle-Class Twats - Dr. M
" *sigh* it's right when they throw the penis pump out the window." -Hoy
Re: No, No, Don't Worry. Racism is Pretty Much Over.
Agreed. BBE misread Marky Dread's words.Silent Majority wrote: ↑26 Aug 2020, 6:20amI don't necessarily agree with Mark's position on this, but I absolutely read the sentence that pushed the discussion into an argument as the opinion of the oppressor, not his own.Marky Dread wrote: ↑25 Aug 2020, 3:01pmI there ever was a simple answer then we would of had it by now. You can not stamp out racism just like you can't stamp out hatred. Am I saying sit down and give up, no never but you will achieve nothing with violence. It has never solved a single thing except to heap more misery on those that have already endured enough. Those in power want you to get angry they want you to fight. So they can have an excuse to keep you down. They want you to know they think you are stupid and violence just plays directly into their hands. You are all stupid morons who know no better than to riot or to go looting. It's the biggest con trick on the masses ever. People are falling for it time and time again.BostonBeaneater wrote: ↑25 Aug 2020, 2:23pmI've witnessed a riot but I have not had my ass kicked by the cops. My black friends have had their ass kicked by cops... endlessly and exhaustively. To their great credit they have tried every single avenue of peaceful protest and they still live in fear in this country. I have never seen a bully changes through reasonable discussion. They (police and their backers) must be made afraid and unsafe where ever they go. In other words, racists and their armed goon army should be made to feel the way they make others feel.Marky Dread wrote: ↑25 Aug 2020, 1:55pmIt's not a population. A population is everybody.BostonBeaneater wrote: ↑25 Aug 2020, 1:43pm
When a population is hunted and murdered in the streets, yes to violence. Those who favor a police state only know that language. They must be made beaten and made afraid.
Stand up and protest make your voices heard. The common man is the bus driver, the train driver, the nurse, the refuge collector. If one person gets hurt or killed in these protests it's one too many. Violence is understandable but never the answer. Your welcome to your point of view but you are wrong.
Ever been in a riot? Ever had the shit kicked out of you for something you believed strongly in? Broken nose? Stabbed? Seen your friend die? If not come back and tell when you have and then tell me violence is the answer.
Look, I understand the perspective of violence as a last resort. I am just saying it is time for some last resorts. I'm 45 years old and have seem the police and surveillance state grow stronger and crueler. In my opinion that will not change until these people face consequences.
I'm not playing tough guy or promoting senseless violence. That said, you have to punch back. I'd love to hear about some magically peaceful solution but I have been waiting along time.
Let fury have the hour, anger can be power
D'you know that you can use it?
-- There's no fairytale ending with cocaine.
D'you know that you can use it?
-- There's no fairytale ending with cocaine.