No, No, Don't Worry. Racism is Pretty Much Over.

Politics and other such topical creams.
revbob
User avatar
Unknown Immortal
Posts: 25326
Joined: 16 Jun 2008, 12:31pm
Location: The Frozen Tundra

Re: No, No, Don't Worry. Racism is Pretty Much Over.

Post by revbob »

Flex wrote:
26 Aug 2020, 2:28pm
I have a bunch of mixed feelings on the efficacy of violence (and how we even define "violence"), as well as gun control (and I'm sure a search on these forums would reveal shifting, ping-ponging views from me over the years). I generally don't feel qualified to say with authority what's right or wrong from moral, strategic or tactical perspectives and my position as a white, male middle class person largely disqualifies whatever I'd have to say anyways other than: I support the views, even when they're contradictory, of movements of liberation and my goal is not to undermine shit.

Except, I will say it's deeply fucked up that we categorize the destruction of property as "violence" as if it was a person being attacked. Burning down a thousand Targets and smashing a thousand Starbucks windows doesn't begin to compare to the cops (or some psycho militia nut) murdering a single person. That I'm pretty confident about.
I agree with much of this.

I respect what people say about nonviolence but history has shown the non violent alternative is only acceptable to those in power when also faced with an armed movement. Until then they dismiss and seek to undermine those seeking nonviolent change.

Dr. Medulla
User avatar
Atheistic Epileptic
Posts: 115976
Joined: 15 Jun 2008, 2:00pm
Location: Straight Banana, Idaho

Re: No, No, Don't Worry. Racism is Pretty Much Over.

Post by Dr. Medulla »

Flex wrote:
26 Aug 2020, 2:28pm
I have a bunch of mixed feelings on the efficacy of violence (and how we even define "violence"), as well as gun control (and I'm sure a search on these forums would reveal shifting, ping-ponging views from me over the years). I generally don't feel qualified to say with authority what's right or wrong from moral, strategic or tactical perspectives and my position as a white, male middle class person largely disqualifies whatever I'd have to say anyways other than: I support the views, even when they're contradictory, of movements of liberation and my goal is not to undermine shit.

Except, I will say it's deeply fucked up that we categorize the destruction of property as "violence" as if it was a person being attacked. Burning down a thousand Targets and smashing a thousand Starbucks windows doesn't begin to compare to the cops (or some psycho militia nut) murdering a single person. That I'm pretty confident about.
I generally agree with all this. I'm open about my pacifism, but also know that my status and experience informs it, and that I'm pretty goddamned lucky in all that, so I can't condemn people in the street mixing it up with assholes and fascists. I disagree philosophically and so I can't endorse it, but I've never thought I have all (or any) of the answers, so it's just disagreement and willingness to discuss.

One of the things I find a bit interesting by those on the right is to invalidate any protest that involves violence, as if violence and protest are so incompatible rather than, historically, the norm. MLK's non-violent approach was so stunning and effective in no small part because non-violent protest was unusual. But on the right, it's now treated as the only legitimate form—albeit not out of respect, but to shrink the window of what is legitimate protest.
"I never doubted myself for a minute for I knew that my monkey-strong bowels were girded with strength, like the loins of a dragon ribboned with fat and the opulence of buffalo dung." - Richard Nixon, Checkers Speech, abandoned early draft

Marky Dread
User avatar
Messiah of the Milk Bar
Posts: 58881
Joined: 17 Jun 2008, 11:26am

Re: No, No, Don't Worry. Racism is Pretty Much Over.

Post by Marky Dread »

Flex wrote:
26 Aug 2020, 2:28pm
I have a bunch of mixed feelings on the efficacy of violence (and how we even define "violence"), as well as gun control (and I'm sure a search on these forums would reveal shifting, ping-ponging views from me over the years). I generally don't feel qualified to say with authority what's right or wrong from moral, strategic or tactical perspectives and my position as a white, male middle class person largely disqualifies whatever I'd have to say anyways other than: I support the views, even when they're contradictory, of movements of liberation and my goal is not to undermine shit.

Except, I will say it's deeply fucked up that we categorize the destruction of property as "violence" as if it was a person being attacked. Burning down a thousand Targets and smashing a thousand Starbucks windows doesn't begin to compare to the cops (or some psycho militia nut) murdering a single person. That I'm pretty confident about.
I don't consider the destruction of property the same as violence against a living breathing person who others may well depend upon. But smashing shop windows etc is not effective in any way. It will all be covered by insurance. Most likely someone you know works in the shop and they are now affected. When the violence is taken to the streets there are only ever losers on both sides. What also concerns me is others coming into an area from out of town to cause destruction then return home leaving the mess for those that live there to clean up and continue living there.
Image

Forces have been looting
My humanity
Curfews have been curbing
The end of liberty


We're the flowers in the dustbin...
No fuchsias for you.

"Without the common people you're nothing"

Nos Sumus Una Familia

101Walterton
User avatar
The Best
Posts: 21973
Joined: 15 Jun 2008, 5:36pm
Location: Volcanic Rock In The Pacific

Re: No, No, Don't Worry. Racism is Pretty Much Over.

Post by 101Walterton »

Don’t know how much of the Christchurch Mosque shooters sentencing has been covered overseas but listening to the victim impact statements they showed remarkable restraint and humility. Even when tempers boiled over they were able to control their actions.
I think a few lessons could be learnt in how to conduct yourself even in the face of extreme provocation.

revbob
User avatar
Unknown Immortal
Posts: 25326
Joined: 16 Jun 2008, 12:31pm
Location: The Frozen Tundra

Re: No, No, Don't Worry. Racism is Pretty Much Over.

Post by revbob »

101Walterton wrote:
26 Aug 2020, 6:01pm
Don’t know how much of the Christchurch Mosque shooters sentencing has been covered overseas but listening to the victim impact statements they showed remarkable restraint and humility. Even when tempers boiled over they were able to control their actions.
I think a few lessons could be learnt in how to conduct yourself even in the face of extreme provocation.
Perhaps but this is a case of apples v kiwis. There is a big difference when agents of the state pull the trigger and historically they've done so largely without fear of prosecution or of even being charged with anything..

WestwayKid
User avatar
Unknown Immortal
Posts: 6704
Joined: 20 Sep 2017, 8:22am
Location: Mill-e-wah-que

Re: No, No, Don't Worry. Racism is Pretty Much Over.

Post by WestwayKid »

The Milwaukee Bucks refused to come out for their Game 5 match up against the Magic today and now the Milwaukee Brewers have said they will not take the field against Cincinnati.
"They don't think it be like it is, but it do." - Oscar Gamble

revbob
User avatar
Unknown Immortal
Posts: 25326
Joined: 16 Jun 2008, 12:31pm
Location: The Frozen Tundra

Re: No, No, Don't Worry. Racism is Pretty Much Over.

Post by revbob »

WestwayKid wrote:
26 Aug 2020, 6:16pm
The Milwaukee Bucks refused to come out for their Game 5 match up against the Magic today and now the Milwaukee Brewers have said they will not take the field against Cincinnati.
Have they given reasons? Is it fear of rioting or something else.

BostonBeaneater
User avatar
Autonomous Insect Cyborg Sentinel
Posts: 11944
Joined: 15 Jun 2008, 7:24pm
Location: Between the moon and New York City

Re: No, No, Don't Worry. Racism is Pretty Much Over.

Post by BostonBeaneater »

There's a logic out there that says sending in columns of armored vehicles in will calm things down. I consider this a green flag for a riot.
Image

Dr. Medulla
User avatar
Atheistic Epileptic
Posts: 115976
Joined: 15 Jun 2008, 2:00pm
Location: Straight Banana, Idaho

Re: No, No, Don't Worry. Racism is Pretty Much Over.

Post by Dr. Medulla »

revbob wrote:
26 Aug 2020, 6:20pm
WestwayKid wrote:
26 Aug 2020, 6:16pm
The Milwaukee Bucks refused to come out for their Game 5 match up against the Magic today and now the Milwaukee Brewers have said they will not take the field against Cincinnati.
Have they given reasons? Is it fear of rioting or something else.
No, in support of protesters. That pro athletes—normally pretty apolitical, don't court controversy people—are increasingly standing out is pretty remarkable and suggestive of how much the needle has moved.
"I never doubted myself for a minute for I knew that my monkey-strong bowels were girded with strength, like the loins of a dragon ribboned with fat and the opulence of buffalo dung." - Richard Nixon, Checkers Speech, abandoned early draft

revbob
User avatar
Unknown Immortal
Posts: 25326
Joined: 16 Jun 2008, 12:31pm
Location: The Frozen Tundra

Re: No, No, Don't Worry. Racism is Pretty Much Over.

Post by revbob »

Dr. Medulla wrote:
26 Aug 2020, 6:48pm
revbob wrote:
26 Aug 2020, 6:20pm
WestwayKid wrote:
26 Aug 2020, 6:16pm
The Milwaukee Bucks refused to come out for their Game 5 match up against the Magic today and now the Milwaukee Brewers have said they will not take the field against Cincinnati.
Have they given reasons? Is it fear of rioting or something else.
No, in support of protesters. That pro athletes—normally pretty apolitical, don't court controversy people—are increasingly standing out is pretty remarkable and suggestive of how much the needle has moved.
Wow, didn't expect that. I guess I could support the Brew Crew now that they are an NL team.

Dr. Medulla
User avatar
Atheistic Epileptic
Posts: 115976
Joined: 15 Jun 2008, 2:00pm
Location: Straight Banana, Idaho

Re: No, No, Don't Worry. Racism is Pretty Much Over.

Post by Dr. Medulla »

revbob wrote:
26 Aug 2020, 6:50pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
26 Aug 2020, 6:48pm
revbob wrote:
26 Aug 2020, 6:20pm
WestwayKid wrote:
26 Aug 2020, 6:16pm
The Milwaukee Bucks refused to come out for their Game 5 match up against the Magic today and now the Milwaukee Brewers have said they will not take the field against Cincinnati.
Have they given reasons? Is it fear of rioting or something else.
No, in support of protesters. That pro athletes—normally pretty apolitical, don't court controversy people—are increasingly standing out is pretty remarkable and suggestive of how much the needle has moved.
Wow, didn't expect that. I guess I could support the Brew Crew now that they are an NL team.
And now all NBA playoff games have been postponed tonight.
"I never doubted myself for a minute for I knew that my monkey-strong bowels were girded with strength, like the loins of a dragon ribboned with fat and the opulence of buffalo dung." - Richard Nixon, Checkers Speech, abandoned early draft

revbob
User avatar
Unknown Immortal
Posts: 25326
Joined: 16 Jun 2008, 12:31pm
Location: The Frozen Tundra

Re: No, No, Don't Worry. Racism is Pretty Much Over.

Post by revbob »

Dr. Medulla wrote:
26 Aug 2020, 6:57pm
revbob wrote:
26 Aug 2020, 6:50pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
26 Aug 2020, 6:48pm
revbob wrote:
26 Aug 2020, 6:20pm
WestwayKid wrote:
26 Aug 2020, 6:16pm
The Milwaukee Bucks refused to come out for their Game 5 match up against the Magic today and now the Milwaukee Brewers have said they will not take the field against Cincinnati.
Have they given reasons? Is it fear of rioting or something else.
No, in support of protesters. That pro athletes—normally pretty apolitical, don't court controversy people—are increasingly standing out is pretty remarkable and suggestive of how much the needle has moved.
Wow, didn't expect that. I guess I could support the Brew Crew now that they are an NL team.
And now all NBA playoff games have been postponed tonight.
Good on them.

Dr. Medulla
User avatar
Atheistic Epileptic
Posts: 115976
Joined: 15 Jun 2008, 2:00pm
Location: Straight Banana, Idaho

Re: No, No, Don't Worry. Racism is Pretty Much Over.

Post by Dr. Medulla »

revbob wrote:
26 Aug 2020, 7:09pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
26 Aug 2020, 6:57pm
revbob wrote:
26 Aug 2020, 6:50pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
26 Aug 2020, 6:48pm
revbob wrote:
26 Aug 2020, 6:20pm


Have they given reasons? Is it fear of rioting or something else.
No, in support of protesters. That pro athletes—normally pretty apolitical, don't court controversy people—are increasingly standing out is pretty remarkable and suggestive of how much the needle has moved.
Wow, didn't expect that. I guess I could support the Brew Crew now that they are an NL team.
And now all NBA playoff games have been postponed tonight.
Good on them.
If nothing else, it makes it harder for bigots to enjoy sports.
"I never doubted myself for a minute for I knew that my monkey-strong bowels were girded with strength, like the loins of a dragon ribboned with fat and the opulence of buffalo dung." - Richard Nixon, Checkers Speech, abandoned early draft

101Walterton
User avatar
The Best
Posts: 21973
Joined: 15 Jun 2008, 5:36pm
Location: Volcanic Rock In The Pacific

Re: No, No, Don't Worry. Racism is Pretty Much Over.

Post by 101Walterton »

revbob wrote:
26 Aug 2020, 6:09pm
101Walterton wrote:
26 Aug 2020, 6:01pm
Don’t know how much of the Christchurch Mosque shooters sentencing has been covered overseas but listening to the victim impact statements they showed remarkable restraint and humility. Even when tempers boiled over they were able to control their actions.
I think a few lessons could be learnt in how to conduct yourself even in the face of extreme provocation.
Perhaps but this is a case of apples v kiwis. There is a big difference when agents of the state pull the trigger and historically they've done so largely without fear of prosecution or of even being charged with anything..
I don’t get your point. My post was nothing to do with what is happening in America.

Heston
User avatar
God of Thunder...and Rock 'n Roll
Posts: 38356
Joined: 15 Jun 2008, 4:07pm
Location: North of Watford Junction

Re: No, No, Don't Worry. Racism is Pretty Much Over.

Post by Heston »

101Walterton wrote:
26 Aug 2020, 6:01pm
Don’t know how much of the Christchurch Mosque shooters sentencing has been covered overseas but listening to the victim impact statements they showed remarkable restraint and humility. Even when tempers boiled over they were able to control their actions.
I think a few lessons could be learnt in how to conduct yourself even in the face of extreme provocation.
I've heard a few news reports. A mother of one of the victims gave a great account of herself.
There's a tiny, tiny hopeful part of me that says you guys are running a Kaufmanesque long con on the board

Post Reply