Magical Mystery Tour - Side B - Round 2

[Kory]

Just to be a turd, I'll add some Hestonian logic. Close to half a billion people tuned in to see the band debut AYNIL. Surely that means it's a great song, no?

What a turd

[Dr. Medulla]

Just to be a turd, I'll add some Hestonian logic. Close to half a billion people tuned in to see the band debut AYNIL. Surely that means it's a great song, no?

What a turd

Well, I asked for it.

[Marky Dread]

Hello, Goodbye has less votes than SFF ...Meanwhile back in the real world Trump gets re-elected.

[Silent Majority]

Us punk rockers need to see off the meaningless hippie bullshit of All You Need Is Love, which is a shit, underwritten song with a message that encourages laying around on your arse not facing what's wrong with your life and the world.

That's a legit criticism and in the larger sense I agree. But using it to argue for—at least relatively so—a song about "remember how wonderful it was seeing the butcher and the grocer and the smell of flowers and food." I mean, if the standard is punk, "Penny Lane" is hardly better. How does it encourage action or critical thinking any more than AYNIL? AYNIL has an argument and a half-baked philosophy in it, but it's more than dumb nostalgia from someone who is, like, 23 years old. If you're going to critique AYNIL on those standards, apply them to PL.

PL is part of a wider re-examination and smoothening out of the British past, like the Kinks did with Village Green Preservation Society. The nostalgia doesn't mean a lot, but the feelings it inspired in the songwriters were very real and heartfelt to them. They're bleeding strawberry jam onto the page and the melody is there to express that. Put another way, Penny Lane is a sincere but misguided look at how we look back at the world that birthed us and in the intensity of that feeling - whatever the age of the songwriter - we're given one of the best tunes in 60s pop, unlike All You Need Is Love, which disguises the fact that it's nowhere musically with studio trickery and extracts from other songs.

Likewise, Penny Lane is a mood piece, not something seeking to be a definitive statement or finest hour like AYNIL (which fails at being both) and needs to be considered in its own ambitions.

[Marky Dread]

Us punk rockers need to see off the meaningless hippie bullshit of All You Need Is Love, which is a shit, underwritten song with a message that encourages laying around on your arse not facing what's wrong with your life and the world.

That's a legit criticism and in the larger sense I agree. But using it to argue for—at least relatively so—a song about "remember how wonderful it was seeing the butcher and the grocer and the smell of flowers and food." I mean, if the standard is punk, "Penny Lane" is hardly better. How does it encourage action or critical thinking any more than AYNIL? AYNIL has an argument and a half-baked philosophy in it, but it's more than dumb nostalgia from someone who is, like, 23 years old. If you're going to critique AYNIL on those standards, apply them to PL.

PL is part of a wider re-examination and smoothening out of the British past, like the Kinks did with Village Green Preservation Society. The nostalgia doesn't mean a lot, but the feelings it inspired in the songwriters were very real and heartfelt to them. They're bleeding strawberry jam onto the page and the melody is there to express that. Put another way, Penny Lane is a sincere but misguided look at how we look back at the world that birthed us and in the intensity of that feeling - whatever the age of the songwriter - we're given one of the best tunes in 60s pop, unlike All You Need Is Love, which disguises the fact that it's nowhere musically with studio trickery and extracts from other songs.

Likewise, Penny Lane is a mood piece, not something seeking to be a definitive statement or finest hour like AYNIL (which fails at being both) and needs to be considered in its own ambitions.

Fucking hell and there was me thinking it was just a pretty tune the postman whistled while delivering my post.

[Dr. Medulla]

Hello, Goodbye has less votes than SFF ...Meanwhile back in the real world Trump gets re-elected.

I continue to be confused and disappointed by people. I've posted this before, but it's worth repeating:


I never would have guessed so many people here now would have been with the audience then.

[Dr. Medulla]

Us punk rockers need to see off the meaningless hippie bullshit of All You Need Is Love, which is a shit, underwritten song with a message that encourages laying around on your arse not facing what's wrong with your life and the world.

That's a legit criticism and in the larger sense I agree. But using it to argue for—at least relatively so—a song about "remember how wonderful it was seeing the butcher and the grocer and the smell of flowers and food." I mean, if the standard is punk, "Penny Lane" is hardly better. How does it encourage action or critical thinking any more than AYNIL? AYNIL has an argument and a half-baked philosophy in it, but it's more than dumb nostalgia from someone who is, like, 23 years old. If you're going to critique AYNIL on those standards, apply them to PL.

PL is part of a wider re-examination and smoothening out of the British past, like the Kinks did with Village Green Preservation Society. The nostalgia doesn't mean a lot, but the feelings it inspired in the songwriters were very real and heartfelt to them. They're bleeding strawberry jam onto the page and the melody is there to express that. Put another way, Penny Lane is a sincere but misguided look at how we look back at the world that birthed us and in the intensity of that feeling - whatever the age of the songwriter - we're given one of the best tunes in 60s pop, unlike All You Need Is Love, which disguises the fact that it's nowhere musically with studio trickery and extracts from other songs.

Likewise, Penny Lane is a mood piece, not something seeking to be a definitive statement or finest hour like AYNIL (which fails at being both) and needs to be considered in its own ambitions.

That kind of argument about the lyrical context and content necessarily validates AYNIL then. Sincere, misguided, intensity of feeling—those all apply. That you say AYNIL fails as a definitive statement seems odd, tho. Any number of lazy writers use it to title books and articles about the band because it does so easily define the band. At the end of the day, I suspect all four would be comfortable saying that that title more than any other summarized the band's outlook.

(I hate being forced to advocate for AYNIL. If not for PL's syruppy presence, I'd jettison it like sharty underwear.)

[Marky Dread]

Hello, Goodbye has less votes than SFF ...Meanwhile back in the real world Trump gets re-elected.

I continue to be confused and disappointed by people. I've posted this before, but it's worth repeating:


I never would have guessed so many people here now would have been with the audience then.

I'm with the last guy.

[Dr. Medulla]

Hello, Goodbye has less votes than SFF ...Meanwhile back in the real world Trump gets re-elected.

I continue to be confused and disappointed by people. I've posted this before, but it's worth repeating:


I never would have guessed so many people here now would have been with the audience then.

I'm with the last guy.

When I corresponded with the author of Magic Circles, he pointed me to that clip and said that he wrote the book for that fan—the kind of person who was excited about the Beatles always pushing to something else, not being satisfied with what they found to be easy and conventional.

[Marky Dread]

Hello, Goodbye has less votes than SFF ...Meanwhile back in the real world Trump gets re-elected.

I continue to be confused and disappointed by people. I've posted this before, but it's worth repeating:


I never would have guessed so many people here now would have been with the audience then.

I'm with the last guy.

When I corresponded with the author of Magic Circles, he pointed me to that clip and said that he wrote the book for that fan—the kind of person who was excited about the Beatles always pushing to something else, not being satisfied with what they found to be easy and conventional.

It's very interesting that the majority were kind of turned off as opposed to be tuned on.

Watching that clip did make me wonder though if in order to get on tv back then they picked a certain sort of youth. Maybe they are told not to be too outspoken etc. They are not really the hip kids as such.

[Dr. Medulla]

It's very interesting that the majority were kind of turned off as opposed to be tuned on.

Several Beatles books cite that they lost a lot of their original fans at this time—they called it going on a "Beatles break"—and turned to bands like the Monkees, who were closer to the "fun" Beatles. That's one of the themes of that book—the steady gap between the band and its fans as to what each wanted. Fewer and fewer fans wanted to push things.

Watching that clip did make me wonder though if in order to get on tv back then they picked a certain sort of youth. Maybe they are told not to be too outspoken etc. They are not really the hip kids as such.

Yeah, to be fair, that audience skews conservative because that's what Bandstand was. But they were kids who, presumably, did love the Beatles earlier on. They probably loved "Penny Lane," tho.

[Marky Dread]

It's very interesting that the majority were kind of turned off as opposed to be tuned on.

Several Beatles books cite that they lost a lot of their original fans at this time—they called it going on a "Beatles break"—and turned to bands like the Monkees, who were closer to the "fun" Beatles. That's one of the themes of that book—the steady gap between the band and its fans as to what each wanted. Fewer and fewer fans wanted to push things.

Watching that clip did make me wonder though if in order to get on tv back then they picked a certain sort of youth. Maybe they are told not to be too outspoken etc. They are not really the hip kids as such.

Yeah, to be fair, that audience skews conservative because that's what Bandstand was. But they were kids who, presumably, did love the Beatles earlier on. They probably loved "Penny Lane," tho.

Ahh so the real hip kids are pop kids.

[WestwayKid]

It appears Heston is still kicked off the board , but I'm sure he'd be happy to know that PL appears to have survived for another round.

[Silent Majority]

It appears Heston is still kicked off the board , but I'm sure he'd be happy to know that PL appears to have survived for another round.

vindication

[Silent Majority]

Us punk rockers need to see off the meaningless hippie bullshit of All You Need Is Love, which is a shit, underwritten song with a message that encourages laying around on your arse not facing what's wrong with your life and the world.

That's a legit criticism and in the larger sense I agree. But using it to argue for—at least relatively so—a song about "remember how wonderful it was seeing the butcher and the grocer and the smell of flowers and food." I mean, if the standard is punk, "Penny Lane" is hardly better. How does it encourage action or critical thinking any more than AYNIL? AYNIL has an argument and a half-baked philosophy in it, but it's more than dumb nostalgia from someone who is, like, 23 years old. If you're going to critique AYNIL on those standards, apply them to PL.

PL is part of a wider re-examination and smoothening out of the British past, like the Kinks did with Village Green Preservation Society. The nostalgia doesn't mean a lot, but the feelings it inspired in the songwriters were very real and heartfelt to them. They're bleeding strawberry jam onto the page and the melody is there to express that. Put another way, Penny Lane is a sincere but misguided look at how we look back at the world that birthed us and in the intensity of that feeling - whatever the age of the songwriter - we're given one of the best tunes in 60s pop, unlike All You Need Is Love, which disguises the fact that it's nowhere musically with studio trickery and extracts from other songs.

Likewise, Penny Lane is a mood piece, not something seeking to be a definitive statement or finest hour like AYNIL (which fails at being both) and needs to be considered in its own ambitions.

That kind of argument about the lyrical context and content necessarily validates AYNIL then. Sincere, misguided, intensity of feeling—those all apply. That you say AYNIL fails as a definitive statement seems odd, tho. Any number of lazy writers use it to title books and articles about the band because it does so easily define the band. At the end of the day, I suspect all four would be comfortable saying that that title more than any other summarized the band's outlook.

(I hate being forced to advocate for AYNIL. If not for PL's syruppy presence, I'd jettison it like sharty underwear.)

Well, we come down to the entirety subjective issue of what has a good tune and well-written lyrics. I think PL does and AYNIL does not