The De-Berniator

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Heston
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Re: The De-Berniator

Post by Heston »

Olaf wrote:
04 Mar 2021, 11:49am
Heston wrote:
03 Mar 2021, 5:06pm
I could be wrong.
Nah, not you. ;)
I was waiting but expected Wolt to turn up first.
There's a tiny, tiny hopeful part of me that says you guys are running a Kaufmanesque long con on the board

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Re: The De-Berniator

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This thing is amazing. I am truly in awe of how well this was executed. In a perfect world, this is what that album would have sounded like if they recorded it live right after getting off the road. Now I have the satisfaction of hearing that instead of frustratedly imagining it all the time.

It's funny though, how the raw competence of this thing reveals how stupid about half of the songs were. Fully six songs should have been replaced with stuff they'd worked out on the road and never recorded, and it's not hard to tell which songs they are.
"Put down the meth, boy." - TeddyB, 2013.

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Re: The De-Berniator

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IkarisOne wrote:
03 Mar 2021, 5:31pm
matedog wrote:
03 Mar 2021, 2:48pm
Has anyone shared with Nick or Pete? I think they might get a kick out of it.

I talked to Nick about it. He said it sounds great but is very bittersweet for him, because of what could have been.
Interesting. I hate it for him because I have no doubt he and the rest of the band could've nailed the material if not for Bernie's madness.

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Re: The De-Berniator

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Not that anyone asked, but damn it I continue to have outlet-less thoughts on this:

I re-listened to Cut the Crap and this during my walk this morning and just thought about the dynamics that led to that album getting made, and what the hell anybody thought they were doing, and whether it ever could have been good. Like, if it sounded like the reboot, where would it have landed in the market? What would it have done to The Clash's legacy? What reviews would it get?

And the more I thought about it, the more I realized it never could have worked out because Joe Strummer was never going to be in the headspace to make that happen. The well was just too poisoned. Even with the most charitable arrangement possible, half of these songs have hall of fame terrible lyrics and the majority of the vocals lack the power Joe had on stage. He sounds a bit defeated. But even if that weren't true, the songs are all too similar. It needed more dynamics, some organ, more diverse instrumentation, something.

And the football chants. Man, those football chants. Those all gotta go, and yesterday. There's something so false about them. So ugly. On the way to sounding fash.

I just can't see a world where even the retooled version gets good reviews. I think the playing would have been praised (this is a tight band) but people would correctly observe that only about four of its songs are major and many are godawful, that the vibe of the songs is really dark, and that the product as a whole doesn't have narrative cohesion. What's Life is Wild? What kind of statement is that? There's no story to this. And the album totally lacks a way in. Is The Dictator a good song? I suppose it goes hard, it's got a lot of muscle, but there's something depressing about it, unmotivated. Why are we starting here?

Just for kicks I tried to come up with a tracklisting for the dream version of this. This is just songs I knew Joe had lying around in 1984. Unsure about sequencing but here's what I got:

01. Are You Ready For War?
02. The Dictator
03. Jericho
04. Galleani
05. Out of Control
06. North and South
07. Three Card Trick
08. In The Pouring Rain
09. Sex Mad War
10. Rock ‘n Roll City
11. Before We Go Forward
12. Blues On The River
13. This Is England

Still don't know how it would have landed even if those were recorded perfect. I think it'd get respectable reviews, but it's missing something. Maybe that's Mick Jones.
"Put down the meth, boy." - TeddyB, 2013.

Marky Dread
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Re: The De-Berniator

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CorwoodRep wrote:
09 Mar 2021, 10:09pm
Not that anyone asked, but damn it I continue to have outlet-less thoughts on this:

I re-listened to Cut the Crap and this during my walk this morning and just thought about the dynamics that led to that album getting made, and what the hell anybody thought they were doing, and whether it ever could have been good. Like, if it sounded like the reboot, where would it have landed in the market? What would it have done to The Clash's legacy? What reviews would it get?

And the more I thought about it, the more I realized it never could have worked out because Joe Strummer was never going to be in the headspace to make that happen. The well was just too poisoned. Even with the most charitable arrangement possible, half of these songs have hall of fame terrible lyrics and the majority of the vocals lack the power Joe had on stage. He sounds a bit defeated. But even if that weren't true, the songs are all too similar. It needed more dynamics, some organ, more diverse instrumentation, something.

And the football chants. Man, those football chants. Those all gotta go, and yesterday. There's something so false about them. So ugly. On the way to sounding fash.

I just can't see a world where even the retooled version gets good reviews. I think the playing would have been praised (this is a tight band) but people would correctly observe that only about four of its songs are major and many are godawful, that the vibe of the songs is really dark, and that the product as a whole doesn't have narrative cohesion. What's Life is Wild? What kind of statement is that? There's no story to this. And the album totally lacks a way in. Is The Dictator a good song? I suppose it goes hard, it's got a lot of muscle, but there's something depressing about it, unmotivated. Why are we starting here?

Just for kicks I tried to come up with a tracklisting for the dream version of this. This is just songs I knew Joe had lying around in 1984. Unsure about sequencing but here's what I got:

01. Are You Ready For War?
02. The Dictator
03. Jericho
04. Galleani
05. Out of Control
06. North and South
07. Three Card Trick
08. In The Pouring Rain
09. Sex Mad War
10. Rock ‘n Roll City
11. Before We Go Forward
12. Blues On The River
13. This Is England

Still don't know how it would have landed even if those were recorded perfect. I think it'd get respectable reviews, but it's missing something. Maybe that's Mick Jones.
I agree with this post. Whilst I still say Gerald's reboot work is outstanding and it's great people are enjoying it. The tracks themselves are just too bombastic and joyless for me personally. Yes at least 4 tracks are solid and adding a couple of those that didn't make the cut does allow some more breathing space at least. But seriously what the fuck is "Play to Win" the released album version is like a Sci-Fi nightmare version of "Ivan Meets G.I. Joe".

I do feel with some different arrangements then the album could've sounded way better. Tracks like "In the Pouring, Pouring Rain" would've worked to bring the pace of the album down a little and maybe feature some acoustic and electric guitar side by side.
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Re: The De-Berniator

Post by Kory »

I might argue that if Bernie did anything positive for the album, it was actually to fix some of its homogeneous nature.
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Heston
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Re: The De-Berniator

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CorwoodRep wrote:
09 Mar 2021, 10:09pm
Not that anyone asked, but damn it I continue to have outlet-less thoughts on this:

I re-listened to Cut the Crap and this during my walk this morning and just thought about the dynamics that led to that album getting made, and what the hell anybody thought they were doing, and whether it ever could have been good. Like, if it sounded like the reboot, where would it have landed in the market? What would it have done to The Clash's legacy? What reviews would it get?

And the more I thought about it, the more I realized it never could have worked out because Joe Strummer was never going to be in the headspace to make that happen. The well was just too poisoned. Even with the most charitable arrangement possible, half of these songs have hall of fame terrible lyrics and the majority of the vocals lack the power Joe had on stage. He sounds a bit defeated. But even if that weren't true, the songs are all too similar. It needed more dynamics, some organ, more diverse instrumentation, something.

And the football chants. Man, those football chants. Those all gotta go, and yesterday. There's something so false about them. So ugly. On the way to sounding fash.

I just can't see a world where even the retooled version gets good reviews. I think the playing would have been praised (this is a tight band) but people would correctly observe that only about four of its songs are major and many are godawful, that the vibe of the songs is really dark, and that the product as a whole doesn't have narrative cohesion. What's Life is Wild? What kind of statement is that? There's no story to this. And the album totally lacks a way in. Is The Dictator a good song? I suppose it goes hard, it's got a lot of muscle, but there's something depressing about it, unmotivated. Why are we starting here?

Just for kicks I tried to come up with a tracklisting for the dream version of this. This is just songs I knew Joe had lying around in 1984. Unsure about sequencing but here's what I got:

01. Are You Ready For War?
02. The Dictator
03. Jericho
04. Galleani
05. Out of Control
06. North and South
07. Three Card Trick
08. In The Pouring Rain
09. Sex Mad War
10. Rock ‘n Roll City
11. Before We Go Forward
12. Blues On The River
13. This Is England

Still don't know how it would have landed even if those were recorded perfect. I think it'd get respectable reviews, but it's missing something. Maybe that's Mick Jones.
Gotta disagree about Joe's vocals, I think he is great across the whole album.
There's a tiny, tiny hopeful part of me that says you guys are running a Kaufmanesque long con on the board

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Re: The De-Berniator

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Kory wrote:
10 Mar 2021, 3:32pm
I might argue that if Bernie did anything positive for the album, it was actually to fix some of its homogeneous nature.
Cacophony does do that.
Back off, or I'll blow the roof off—with sound!

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Re: The De-Berniator

Post by Flex »

Dr. Medulla wrote:
10 Mar 2021, 4:01pm
Cacophony does do that.
yes yes, your swans albums do that too
YOU MADE ONE MISTAKE, LENNON, YOU DOUBLE CROSSED MIKE LOVE AND LEFT HIM ALIVE

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Re: The De-Berniator

Post by Dr. Medulla »

Flex wrote:
10 Mar 2021, 4:09pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
10 Mar 2021, 4:01pm
Cacophony does do that.
yes yes, your swans albums do that too
Damn, I walked into that. :disshame:
Back off, or I'll blow the roof off—with sound!

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Re: The De-Berniator

Post by Kory »

Dr. Medulla wrote:
10 Mar 2021, 4:12pm
Flex wrote:
10 Mar 2021, 4:09pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
10 Mar 2021, 4:01pm
Cacophony does do that.
yes yes, your swans albums do that too
Damn, I walked into that. :disshame:
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Re: The De-Berniator

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Kory wrote:
10 Mar 2021, 3:32pm
I might argue that if Bernie did anything positive for the album, it was actually to fix some of its homogeneous nature.
Dictator is pretty boring live. The CTC version is at least interesting.
Look, you have to establish context for these things. And I maintain that unless you appreciate the Fall of Constantinople, the Great Fire of London, and Mickey Mantle's fatalist alcoholism, live Freddy makes no sense. If you want to half-ass it, fine, go call Simon Schama to do the appendix.

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Re: The De-Berniator

Post by Dr. Medulla »

matedog wrote:
10 Mar 2021, 4:58pm
Kory wrote:
10 Mar 2021, 3:32pm
I might argue that if Bernie did anything positive for the album, it was actually to fix some of its homogeneous nature.
Dictator is pretty boring live. The CTC version is at least interesting.
In a "what the fuck is going on" way, yes.
Back off, or I'll blow the roof off—with sound!

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Re: The De-Berniator

Post by BitterTom »

Dr. Medulla wrote:
10 Mar 2021, 4:59pm
matedog wrote:
10 Mar 2021, 4:58pm
Kory wrote:
10 Mar 2021, 3:32pm
I might argue that if Bernie did anything positive for the album, it was actually to fix some of its homogeneous nature.
Dictator is pretty boring live. The CTC version is at least interesting.
In a "what the fuck is going on" way, yes.
Ah, the sound of a hundred radios all tuned to a different station.

Marky Dread
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Re: The De-Berniator

Post by Marky Dread »

BitterTom wrote:
10 Mar 2021, 5:01pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
10 Mar 2021, 4:59pm
matedog wrote:
10 Mar 2021, 4:58pm
Kory wrote:
10 Mar 2021, 3:32pm
I might argue that if Bernie did anything positive for the album, it was actually to fix some of its homogeneous nature.
Dictator is pretty boring live. The CTC version is at least interesting.
In a "what the fuck is going on" way, yes.
Ah, the sound of a hundred radios all tuned to a different station.
:mrgreen:
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Forces have been looting
My humanity
Curfews have been curbing
The end of liberty

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