The Mighty Musical Observations Thread

[Dr. Medulla]

It doesn't need to be physical and if only downloads and streaming were the option available in 1977 then maybe for me things would be different. But the punk era was completely about expressing yourself. I can't imagine it having the same impact without it being physical. Would I have been inspired to make art or my own clothing with a download...unlikely.

I'm not sure why not. I've been inspired to make shirts and posters when I can't find a legal way of buying them. It's an impossible question, tho, as we didn't have that option back then, but I'd like to think that as long as we have ideas/inspiration and resources (physical or digital), we'll create something.

[Marky Dread]

It doesn't need to be physical and if only downloads and streaming were the option available in 1977 then maybe for me things would be different. But the punk era was completely about expressing yourself. I can't imagine it having the same impact without it being physical. Would I have been inspired to make art or my own clothing with a download...unlikely.

I'm not sure why not. I've been inspired to make shirts and posters when I can't find a legal way of buying them. It's an impossible question, tho, as we didn't have that option back then, but I'd like to think that as long as we have ideas/inspiration and resources (physical or digital), we'll create something.

Then you would totally miss it's D.I.Y aesthetic. Which is all about the imperfection. Just how did you make those shirts and posters. Did you sit there for hours designing and cutting out stuff by hand and completey being invested in the art. Or maybe you screen printed your own design. Or did you search out a design online and then have a printer copy it for you. Sorry old pal that is not a D.I.Y project.

[Low Down Low]

Yesterday I was typing up notes from a semi-recent piece that I plan on assigning in my punk seminar. There are a number of interesting ideas/speculations in these two paragraphs about how streaming has changed the way we regard music, including its significance w/r/t our identities. I think I'm too old to assess whether this is true or not (streaming is an alternative means for me, not the main) and I still love arguing about … well, lots of stuff, including music. But maybe this does ring true for young Millennials and Z's?

Back in the nineties, Kurt Cobain worried that Nirvana’s newfound fame would earn him the wrong sorts of fans; Billie Joe Armstrong was dismayed that Green Day’s popularity changed his relationship to the Bay Area punk scene that had nurtured him. But that was the CD-buying era, when consumers had to pay for their musical choices: this scarcity probably encouraged some listeners to think of their favorite bands as their exclusive property. Nowadays, in the Spotify era, you can stream whatever you like without buying anything, except an expensive phone and a relatively cheap subscription. No one seems to care so much about separating the part-time punks from the real thing.

I sometimes wonder whether the age of arguing about music—the age of purity tests and underground idealism and sneering at the mainstream—is coming to a close. Negative reviews of albums and concerts have largely disappeared from the outlets that publish criticism. Maybe, in a world where there’s so much to listen to, it makes more sense to celebrate what you love and ignore everything else. Maybe, from now on, most musical consumers will be omnivores, to whom the notion of loyalty to a genre seems as foreign as the notion of “owning” an album. I sometimes wonder, too, whether political conviction is replacing musical conviction as the preëminent marker of subcultural identity. Perhaps some of the kinds of people who used to talk about obscure bands now prefer to talk about obscure or outré causes. And perhaps political advocacy supplies some of the sense of belonging that people once got from tight-knit punk scenes. That would not necessarily be an unhappy development—although now, as then, there are likely to be plenty of poseurs mixed in with the true believers.

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2021 ... -time-punk

There's a lot to unpack in those two paragraphs and i wouldn't have much insight into it. The bit where he talks about music criticism does strike me as interesting because the whole business of being a music writer seems to have a lot less cache these days than it used. I mean, 30-40 years ago, I knew who these guys were and, in some cases, they seemed to regard themselves as equals to some of the bands they covered. Nowadays, nobody seems to make their name being a rock critic or maybe I'm completely out of touch and missing it, which is entirely possible!

This is true. Once upon a time, there were a number of Significant Rock Critics (e.g., Bangs, Marcus, Christgau, Meltzer) who established narratives and values of what we should listen for, what qualities made something good or bad. I can't think of anyone wielding that kind of influence now. I had a student this term observe that things are better now because of all the choice via things like Spotify, because it frees us from the tyranny of critics. I responded that algorithms that seek to steer us in various directions is arguably more sinister. As well, there is value in someone out there writing what something means and why. We don't have to agree, but it's good to have that in the back of our mind. If the option is to listen without critical voices, where it does become just a quick pleasure and then onto something else, that seems a tragic devaluing of art.

Yes, agree wholeheartedly. I did often think that too many of those old critics thought waaay too highly of themselves, but in a way that was part of the fun and made the whole thing seem even more vital and important than it was. And for every preening, self aggrandizing critic, there was a Bangs or a Shaar Murray whose love for their craft shone through on every page, reminding you that criticism could be an art form in and of itself.

[Dr. Medulla]

It doesn't need to be physical and if only downloads and streaming were the option available in 1977 then maybe for me things would be different. But the punk era was completely about expressing yourself. I can't imagine it having the same impact without it being physical. Would I have been inspired to make art or my own clothing with a download...unlikely.

I'm not sure why not. I've been inspired to make shirts and posters when I can't find a legal way of buying them. It's an impossible question, tho, as we didn't have that option back then, but I'd like to think that as long as we have ideas/inspiration and resources (physical or digital), we'll create something.

Then you would totally miss it's D.I.Y aesthetic. Which is all about the imperfection. Just how did you make those shirts and posters. Did you sit there for hours designing and cutting out stuff by hand and completey being invested in the art. Or maybe you screen printed your own design. Or did you search out a design online and then have a printer copy it for you. Sorry old pal that is not a D.I.Y project.

Oh no, certainly not, but because the option is available now, I'm taking it. I'm an in-betweener.

[Marky Dread]

It doesn't need to be physical and if only downloads and streaming were the option available in 1977 then maybe for me things would be different. But the punk era was completely about expressing yourself. I can't imagine it having the same impact without it being physical. Would I have been inspired to make art or my own clothing with a download...unlikely.

I'm not sure why not. I've been inspired to make shirts and posters when I can't find a legal way of buying them. It's an impossible question, tho, as we didn't have that option back then, but I'd like to think that as long as we have ideas/inspiration and resources (physical or digital), we'll create something.

Then you would totally miss it's D.I.Y aesthetic. Which is all about the imperfection. Just how did you make those shirts and posters. Did you sit there for hours designing and cutting out stuff by hand and completey being invested in the art. Or maybe you screen printed your own design. Or did you search out a design online and then have a printer copy it for you. Sorry old pal that is not a D.I.Y project.

Oh no, certainly not, but because the option is available now, I'm taking it. I'm an in-betweener.

I respect your style.

[Kory]

All I can add from my perspective is when I bought those records back in the day I felt invested in the ideas the songs were addressing. Holding that piece of vinyl and looking at the sleeve and imagery of punk made me feel part of something. The whole package was incredibly important to me from the music and the art making a statement. Something I could never get from streaming or a download.

A number of people here have made similar arguments as you—Kory stands out in my mind—regarding the significance of something tangible. And I can relate in terms of how it was back in the day, especially finding something elusive. I was over the moon, for example, when I chanced upon a used copy of First Issue in a used shop in Regina. But I much prefer a download now that the option is available. The music and the act of hearing the music vastly outweigh holding something or looking at it on the shelf. I think it’s bound up to why I do intellectual history as opposed to social or material history. I’m good with the shit that rolls about in our heads and what we argue about; I’m not as drawn to what people do or to documents or objects. It’s not assertion of superiority, but preference.

I agree that the music is more important than the package, but the ritual is important to me as well, in addition to creating an environment of CD and book spines in my house that serve to mitigate at least some of today's anxieties. Feeling itchy, and then looking over at one of my graphic novel shelves and feeling spontaneously excited to pick one up and read it again is good for my mental health.

Re: your original post, I'm also reminded of a lot of talk I've seen lately about how everything seems to be valued the same anymore. "Low art" is seen as valid/important/valuable as "high art." I'm also reminded of how selling out isn't really a concern for anyone anymore. Thanks largely to the '08 recession hitting people hard, and now with Generation Covid or whatever, the idea of sneering at the mainstream or selling out seems to be a privileged ideological luxury—something that rap artists seem to have known since the beginning. I still struggle with it myself.

[Dr. Medulla]

I agree that the music is more important than the package, but the ritual is important to me as well, in addition to creating an environment of CD and book spines in my house that serve to mitigate at least some of today's anxieties. Feeling itchy, and then looking over at one of my graphic novel shelves and feeling spontaneously excited to pick one up and read it again is good for my mental health.

Maybe you need to go to military school, have some confidence beaten into you!

Re: your original post, I'm also reminded of a lot of talk I've seen lately about how everything seems to be valued the same anymore. "Low art" is seen as valid/important/valuable as "high art." I'm also reminded of how selling out isn't really a concern for anyone anymore. Thanks largely to the '08 recession hitting people hard, and now with Generation Covid or whatever, the idea of sneering at the mainstream or selling out seems to be a privileged ideological luxury—something that rap artists seem to have known since the beginning. I still struggle with it myself.

Yeah, there's a lot of weird developments there. On the good, yes, I endorse eliminating the hierarchy of high and low art, of individual genius and mass trash. The notion that the value of art can be located in its birth is silly as hell. And yet, all this seems to have come at a cost of critical interrogation, where nothing especially contains any value beyond surface pleasure. Equalizing by emptying all of worth seems a horrible solution. Getting to a point where art is extricated from commodification should be the goal, but as exchange value is hindered, it seems that use value is also vulgarized into basic hedonism. It's bizarre that socialism is making a comeback with young people even as the attitude towards art goes full-on empty calorie capitalism.

[Low Down Low]

I recall a short discussion regarding charity xmas singles recently and just heard We Are The World by US Aid for Africa for probably the first time since its release. I quite enjoyed it aesthetically.

[Dr. Medulla]

I recall a short discussion regarding charity xmas singles recently and just heard We Are The World by US Aid for Africa for probably the first time since its release. I quite enjoyed it aesthetically.

[waits for punchline]

[Low Down Low]

I recall a short discussion regarding charity xmas singles recently and just heard We Are The World by US Aid for Africa for probably the first time since its release. I quite enjoyed it aesthetically.

[waits for punchline]

Ha! There's none coming I'm afraid. The song is naff, but I kinda enjoyed the way the singers seemed to be determined to outdo each other in performing their lines, particularly Dylan hamming it up towards the end. Dunno why but it worked a bit for me.

And the lines "There's a choice we're making/We're saving our own lives" still retain a lot of poignance now when I think of what is happening with the pandemic.

[Dr. Medulla]

I recall a short discussion regarding charity xmas singles recently and just heard We Are The World by US Aid for Africa for probably the first time since its release. I quite enjoyed it aesthetically.

[waits for punchline]

Ha! There's none coming I'm afraid. The song is naff, but I kinda enjoyed the way the singers seemed to be determined to outdo each other in performing their lines, particularly Dylan hamming it up towards the end. Dunno why but it worked a bit for me.

And the lines "There's a choice we're making/We're saving our own lives" still retain a lot of poignance now when I think of what is happening with the pandemic.

I have to agree with Greil Marcus, who said it sounds like a commercial jingle. Which, well, it is, and it succeeded in its mission to that end. But … it's as yuck as 99.9% of jingles.

[Low Down Low]

I recall a short discussion regarding charity xmas singles recently and just heard We Are The World by US Aid for Africa for probably the first time since its release. I quite enjoyed it aesthetically.

[waits for punchline]

Ha! There's none coming I'm afraid. The song is naff, but I kinda enjoyed the way the singers seemed to be determined to outdo each other in performing their lines, particularly Dylan hamming it up towards the end. Dunno why but it worked a bit for me.

And the lines "There's a choice we're making/We're saving our own lives" still retain a lot of poignance now when I think of what is happening with the pandemic.

I have to agree with Greil Marcus, who said it sounds like a commercial jingle. Which, well, it is, and it succeeded in its mission to that end. But … it's as yuck as 99.9% of jingles.

As I'm pretty certain that's the view I'd have held upon its release, though i have no memory of clocking it one way or another, I think it's best we chalk this down to a "what the fuck am i turning into?" moment.

[Dr. Medulla]

I recall a short discussion regarding charity xmas singles recently and just heard We Are The World by US Aid for Africa for probably the first time since its release. I quite enjoyed it aesthetically.

[waits for punchline]

Ha! There's none coming I'm afraid. The song is naff, but I kinda enjoyed the way the singers seemed to be determined to outdo each other in performing their lines, particularly Dylan hamming it up towards the end. Dunno why but it worked a bit for me.

And the lines "There's a choice we're making/We're saving our own lives" still retain a lot of poignance now when I think of what is happening with the pandemic.

I have to agree with Greil Marcus, who said it sounds like a commercial jingle. Which, well, it is, and it succeeded in its mission to that end. But … it's as yuck as 99.9% of jingles.

As I'm pretty certain that's the view I'd have held upon its release, though i have no memory of clocking it one way or another, I think it's best we chalk this down to a "what the fuck am i turning into?" moment.

I have that from time to time when I hear some cheesy hair metal song from the 80s. In the day, I didn't just dislike it, I was contemptuous. Now I can see some as stupid, disposable pop.

[Low Down Low]

[waits for punchline]

Ha! There's none coming I'm afraid. The song is naff, but I kinda enjoyed the way the singers seemed to be determined to outdo each other in performing their lines, particularly Dylan hamming it up towards the end. Dunno why but it worked a bit for me.

And the lines "There's a choice we're making/We're saving our own lives" still retain a lot of poignance now when I think of what is happening with the pandemic.

I have to agree with Greil Marcus, who said it sounds like a commercial jingle. Which, well, it is, and it succeeded in its mission to that end. But … it's as yuck as 99.9% of jingles.

As I'm pretty certain that's the view I'd have held upon its release, though i have no memory of clocking it one way or another, I think it's best we chalk this down to a "what the fuck am i turning into?" moment.

I have that from time to time when I hear some cheesy hair metal song from the 80s. In the day, I didn't just dislike it, I was contemptuous. Now I can see some as stupid, disposable pop.

Reminds me of a cartoon I saw once that featured a guy sifting through records in a store and the categories from left to right went from heavy metal to rock to pop to easy listening and, on the far right, inane shite. Oh how I laughed at the time

[Dr. Medulla]

Ha! There's none coming I'm afraid. The song is naff, but I kinda enjoyed the way the singers seemed to be determined to outdo each other in performing their lines, particularly Dylan hamming it up towards the end. Dunno why but it worked a bit for me.

And the lines "There's a choice we're making/We're saving our own lives" still retain a lot of poignance now when I think of what is happening with the pandemic.

I have to agree with Greil Marcus, who said it sounds like a commercial jingle. Which, well, it is, and it succeeded in its mission to that end. But … it's as yuck as 99.9% of jingles.

As I'm pretty certain that's the view I'd have held upon its release, though i have no memory of clocking it one way or another, I think it's best we chalk this down to a "what the fuck am i turning into?" moment.

I have that from time to time when I hear some cheesy hair metal song from the 80s. In the day, I didn't just dislike it, I was contemptuous. Now I can see some as stupid, disposable pop.

Reminds me of a cartoon I saw once that featured a guy sifting through records in a store and the categories from left to right went from heavy metal to rock to pop to easy listening and, on the far right, inane shite. Oh how I laughed at the time

Being righteous and judgmental is a young person's game.