Yeah, regret that one now. Should have buried that one 12 feet deep and built the world's largest sarcophagus over it!Kory wrote: ↑10 Oct 2022, 4:07pmNow YOU'VE gone too farLow Down Low wrote: ↑10 Oct 2022, 3:40pmLikewise, nobody has shamed me into not liking much of Allen's work yet, though Manhattan is just a step too far. Heck, while I'm at it, i even heard a Clapton track on the radio last week that i had to admit i really damned liked.Kory wrote: ↑10 Oct 2022, 2:54pmI'm very surprised to find that Cave likes Morrissey's music, I would not have guessed that. I also relate to your closeted fan note, especially where it relates to Woody Allen. Aside from the obvious fracas every time his name is brought up, you can't even correct the scads of misinformation surrounding him without being accused of condoning all of it.WestwayKid wrote: ↑10 Oct 2022, 11:52amI'm going through a Morrissey kick right now and it's been tough to be a Morrissey fan these last few years (cue the jokers who will tell me it's always been tough to be a Morrissey fan) because he's turned into such a dick. I struggle with this. Should I keep enjoying his music (and I really do like it) or cut the guy loose because of his terrible views?
I thought Nick Cave did a good job discussing the Morrissey-turned-rightwing-hack question on his blog:
"Morrissey’s political opinion becomes irrelevant. Whatever inanities he may postulate, we cannot overlook the fact that he has written a vast and extraordinary catalogue, which has enhanced the lives of his many fans beyond recognition. This is no small thing. He has created original and distinctive works of unparalleled beauty, that will long outlast his offending political alliances."
"I still believe that despite how upsetting Morrissey’s views may be to the marginalised and dispossessed members of society, or anyone else for that matter, he still should have the freedom to express his views, just as others should have the freedom to challenge them—even if just to know in what guise their enemy may appear. The charge that defending a person’s right to their opinions somehow aligns one with their views makes no sense at all and strikes at the heart of the problem itself—that of conflating the concept of free speech with bigotry. This is very dangerous territory indeed."
"Perhaps it is better to simply let Morrissey have his views, challenge them when and wherever possible, but allow his music to live on, bearing in mind we are all conflicted individuals—messy, flawed and prone to lunacies. We should thank God that there are some among us that create works of beauty beyond anything most of us can barely imagine, even as some of those same people fall prey to regressive and dangerous belief systems."
I almost feel at times like I've become a closeted fan, unwilling to discuss my fandom with friends and family. Maybe this is the bigger question of separating the artist from their art, but something I've been thinking about these past few days as I've been listening to his music.
The All Smiths/Morrissey Thread
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Re: The All Smiths/Morrissey Thread
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Re: The All Smiths/Morrissey Thread
I'll fuck with Cream.Low Down Low wrote: ↑10 Oct 2022, 4:32pmYeah, regret that one now. Should have buried that one 12 feet deep and built the world's largest sarcophagus over it!Kory wrote: ↑10 Oct 2022, 4:07pmNow YOU'VE gone too farLow Down Low wrote: ↑10 Oct 2022, 3:40pmLikewise, nobody has shamed me into not liking much of Allen's work yet, though Manhattan is just a step too far. Heck, while I'm at it, i even heard a Clapton track on the radio last week that i had to admit i really damned liked.Kory wrote: ↑10 Oct 2022, 2:54pmI'm very surprised to find that Cave likes Morrissey's music, I would not have guessed that. I also relate to your closeted fan note, especially where it relates to Woody Allen. Aside from the obvious fracas every time his name is brought up, you can't even correct the scads of misinformation surrounding him without being accused of condoning all of it.WestwayKid wrote: ↑10 Oct 2022, 11:52amI'm going through a Morrissey kick right now and it's been tough to be a Morrissey fan these last few years (cue the jokers who will tell me it's always been tough to be a Morrissey fan) because he's turned into such a dick. I struggle with this. Should I keep enjoying his music (and I really do like it) or cut the guy loose because of his terrible views?
I thought Nick Cave did a good job discussing the Morrissey-turned-rightwing-hack question on his blog:
"Morrissey’s political opinion becomes irrelevant. Whatever inanities he may postulate, we cannot overlook the fact that he has written a vast and extraordinary catalogue, which has enhanced the lives of his many fans beyond recognition. This is no small thing. He has created original and distinctive works of unparalleled beauty, that will long outlast his offending political alliances."
"I still believe that despite how upsetting Morrissey’s views may be to the marginalised and dispossessed members of society, or anyone else for that matter, he still should have the freedom to express his views, just as others should have the freedom to challenge them—even if just to know in what guise their enemy may appear. The charge that defending a person’s right to their opinions somehow aligns one with their views makes no sense at all and strikes at the heart of the problem itself—that of conflating the concept of free speech with bigotry. This is very dangerous territory indeed."
"Perhaps it is better to simply let Morrissey have his views, challenge them when and wherever possible, but allow his music to live on, bearing in mind we are all conflicted individuals—messy, flawed and prone to lunacies. We should thank God that there are some among us that create works of beauty beyond anything most of us can barely imagine, even as some of those same people fall prey to regressive and dangerous belief systems."
I almost feel at times like I've become a closeted fan, unwilling to discuss my fandom with friends and family. Maybe this is the bigger question of separating the artist from their art, but something I've been thinking about these past few days as I've been listening to his music.
Re: The All Smiths/Morrissey Thread
Food and sex don't really mix for me.Silent Majority wrote: ↑10 Oct 2022, 4:34pmI'll fuck with Cream.Low Down Low wrote: ↑10 Oct 2022, 4:32pmYeah, regret that one now. Should have buried that one 12 feet deep and built the world's largest sarcophagus over it!Kory wrote: ↑10 Oct 2022, 4:07pmNow YOU'VE gone too farLow Down Low wrote: ↑10 Oct 2022, 3:40pmLikewise, nobody has shamed me into not liking much of Allen's work yet, though Manhattan is just a step too far. Heck, while I'm at it, i even heard a Clapton track on the radio last week that i had to admit i really damned liked.Kory wrote: ↑10 Oct 2022, 2:54pm
I'm very surprised to find that Cave likes Morrissey's music, I would not have guessed that. I also relate to your closeted fan note, especially where it relates to Woody Allen. Aside from the obvious fracas every time his name is brought up, you can't even correct the scads of misinformation surrounding him without being accused of condoning all of it.
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Silent Majority
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Re: The All Smiths/Morrissey Thread
Where's that old Brando's Brand Butter pic?Kory wrote: ↑10 Oct 2022, 4:35pmFood and sex don't really mix for me.Silent Majority wrote: ↑10 Oct 2022, 4:34pmI'll fuck with Cream.Low Down Low wrote: ↑10 Oct 2022, 4:32pmYeah, regret that one now. Should have buried that one 12 feet deep and built the world's largest sarcophagus over it!Kory wrote: ↑10 Oct 2022, 4:07pmNow YOU'VE gone too farLow Down Low wrote: ↑10 Oct 2022, 3:40pm
Likewise, nobody has shamed me into not liking much of Allen's work yet, though Manhattan is just a step too far. Heck, while I'm at it, i even heard a Clapton track on the radio last week that i had to admit i really damned liked.
Re: The All Smiths/Morrissey Thread
I think Doc is usually our image archivist, I expect him to drop the pic any minute now.Silent Majority wrote: ↑10 Oct 2022, 4:37pmWhere's that old Brando's Brand Butter pic?Kory wrote: ↑10 Oct 2022, 4:35pmFood and sex don't really mix for me.Silent Majority wrote: ↑10 Oct 2022, 4:34pmI'll fuck with Cream.Low Down Low wrote: ↑10 Oct 2022, 4:32pmYeah, regret that one now. Should have buried that one 12 feet deep and built the world's largest sarcophagus over it!
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Re: The All Smiths/Morrissey Thread
That was Ratty (he handled pretty much all archival work).Kory wrote: ↑10 Oct 2022, 6:16pmI think Doc is usually our image archivist, I expect him to drop the pic any minute now.Silent Majority wrote: ↑10 Oct 2022, 4:37pmWhere's that old Brando's Brand Butter pic?Kory wrote: ↑10 Oct 2022, 4:35pmFood and sex don't really mix for me.Silent Majority wrote: ↑10 Oct 2022, 4:34pmI'll fuck with Cream.Low Down Low wrote: ↑10 Oct 2022, 4:32pm
Yeah, regret that one now. Should have buried that one 12 feet deep and built the world's largest sarcophagus over it!
"I never doubted myself for a minute for I knew that my monkey-strong bowels were girded with strength, like the loins of a dragon ribboned with fat and the opulence of buffalo dung." - Richard Nixon, Checkers Speech, abandoned early draft
Re: The All Smiths/Morrissey Thread
Drat Patrol.Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑10 Oct 2022, 6:24pmThat was Ratty (he handled pretty much all archival work).
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Re: The All Smiths/Morrissey Thread
Searching "Brando" here found it:Kory wrote: ↑10 Oct 2022, 6:25pmDrat Patrol.
"I never doubted myself for a minute for I knew that my monkey-strong bowels were girded with strength, like the loins of a dragon ribboned with fat and the opulence of buffalo dung." - Richard Nixon, Checkers Speech, abandoned early draft
Re: The All Smiths/Morrissey Thread
CLUTCHDr. Medulla wrote: ↑10 Oct 2022, 6:52pmSearching "Brando" here found it:
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Re: The All Smiths/Morrissey Thread
Good news for begrudging Morrissey fans: he is being supported in the British press
Bad news for begrudging Morrissey fans: the author is such a complete reactionary tosspot, he manages to make even Morrissey look woke
Bad news for begrudging Morrissey fans: the author is such a complete reactionary tosspot, he manages to make even Morrissey look woke
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Re: The All Smiths/Morrissey Thread
Yes, the reason we don't know the name of the latest suicide bomber and spree killer is because of woke cancel culture snowflakery. Doubtless if we quizzed Morrissey or this guy for the names of those behind a dozen of these incidences, they'd have the names handy because they care so much, unlike the rest of us. Jesus fucking Christ.Low Down Low wrote: ↑11 Oct 2022, 5:28pmGood news for begrudging Morrissey fans: he is being supported in the British press
Bad news for begrudging Morrissey fans: the author is such a complete reactionary tosspot, he manages to make even Morrissey look woke
"I never doubted myself for a minute for I knew that my monkey-strong bowels were girded with strength, like the loins of a dragon ribboned with fat and the opulence of buffalo dung." - Richard Nixon, Checkers Speech, abandoned early draft
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Re: The All Smiths/Morrissey Thread
It's a really dumb comparison they're making anyway as there's always been this weird public fascination with serial killers, as long as they've been a thing. I mean, they're still publishing books about Jack the Ripper over 100 years on. People are just obsessed with this stuff in a way they aren't with other crimes and that's nothing to do with "wokery" or cancel culture or whatever you're having yourself. It's just longstanding human nature.Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑11 Oct 2022, 6:25pmYes, the reason we don't know the name of the latest suicide bomber and spree killer is because of woke cancel culture snowflakery. Doubtless if we quizzed Morrissey or this guy for the names of those behind a dozen of these incidences, they'd have the names handy because they care so much, unlike the rest of us. Jesus fucking Christ.Low Down Low wrote: ↑11 Oct 2022, 5:28pmGood news for begrudging Morrissey fans: he is being supported in the British press
Bad news for begrudging Morrissey fans: the author is such a complete reactionary tosspot, he manages to make even Morrissey look woke
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Re: The All Smiths/Morrissey Thread
On the other hand, it's good to be aware that Morrissey has entered his Bono phase of making dumb "you should feel ashamed" comments at his shows.Low Down Low wrote: ↑11 Oct 2022, 7:06pmIt's a really dumb comparison they're making anyway as there's always been this weird public fascination with serial killers, as long as they've been a thing. I mean, they're still publishing books about Jack the Ripper over 100 years on. People are just obsessed with this stuff in a way they aren't with other crimes and that's nothing to do with "wokery" or cancel culture or whatever you're having yourself. It's just longstanding human nature.Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑11 Oct 2022, 6:25pmYes, the reason we don't know the name of the latest suicide bomber and spree killer is because of woke cancel culture snowflakery. Doubtless if we quizzed Morrissey or this guy for the names of those behind a dozen of these incidences, they'd have the names handy because they care so much, unlike the rest of us. Jesus fucking Christ.Low Down Low wrote: ↑11 Oct 2022, 5:28pmGood news for begrudging Morrissey fans: he is being supported in the British press
Bad news for begrudging Morrissey fans: the author is such a complete reactionary tosspot, he manages to make even Morrissey look woke
"I never doubted myself for a minute for I knew that my monkey-strong bowels were girded with strength, like the loins of a dragon ribboned with fat and the opulence of buffalo dung." - Richard Nixon, Checkers Speech, abandoned early draft
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Re: The All Smiths/Morrissey Thread
Morrissey's even written a song about Jack the Ripper .Low Down Low wrote: ↑11 Oct 2022, 7:06pmIt's a really dumb comparison they're making anyway as there's always been this weird public fascination with serial killers, as long as they've been a thing. I mean, they're still publishing books about Jack the Ripper over 100 years on. People are just obsessed with this stuff in a way they aren't with other crimes and that's nothing to do with "wokery" or cancel culture or whatever you're having yourself. It's just longstanding human nature.Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑11 Oct 2022, 6:25pmYes, the reason we don't know the name of the latest suicide bomber and spree killer is because of woke cancel culture snowflakery. Doubtless if we quizzed Morrissey or this guy for the names of those behind a dozen of these incidences, they'd have the names handy because they care so much, unlike the rest of us. Jesus fucking Christ.Low Down Low wrote: ↑11 Oct 2022, 5:28pmGood news for begrudging Morrissey fans: he is being supported in the British press
Bad news for begrudging Morrissey fans: the author is such a complete reactionary tosspot, he manages to make even Morrissey look woke
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Re: The All Smiths/Morrissey Thread
I was listening to the reimagined Kill Uncle the other day and Morrissey did improve on the original, but the original was so underwhelming that it's still a disappointing listen.
His reimagined Viva Hate is a real headscratcher. I'm not sure why he felt the need to mess with that one. He does not improve, but detracts from the original.
The reworking of Maladjusted, however, is spot on. The original always felt flat and poorly sequenced. By removing 2 of the weakest tracks and adding in some period correct b-sides and then resequencing the whole thing, I think it goes from one of his weakest efforts to one of his strongest.
Southpaw Grammar is kind of the same thing, though the original Southpaw was not as bad as the original Maladjusted. Even so, it's an improvement.
His reimagined Viva Hate is a real headscratcher. I'm not sure why he felt the need to mess with that one. He does not improve, but detracts from the original.
The reworking of Maladjusted, however, is spot on. The original always felt flat and poorly sequenced. By removing 2 of the weakest tracks and adding in some period correct b-sides and then resequencing the whole thing, I think it goes from one of his weakest efforts to one of his strongest.
Southpaw Grammar is kind of the same thing, though the original Southpaw was not as bad as the original Maladjusted. Even so, it's an improvement.
"They don't think it be like it is, but it do." - Oscar Gamble