The All Smiths/Morrissey Thread

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Low Down Low
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Re: The All Smiths/Morrissey Thread

Post by Low Down Low »

Kory wrote:
10 Oct 2022, 4:07pm
Low Down Low wrote:
10 Oct 2022, 3:40pm
Kory wrote:
10 Oct 2022, 2:54pm
WestwayKid wrote:
10 Oct 2022, 11:52am
I'm going through a Morrissey kick right now and it's been tough to be a Morrissey fan these last few years (cue the jokers who will tell me it's always been tough to be a Morrissey fan) because he's turned into such a dick. I struggle with this. Should I keep enjoying his music (and I really do like it) or cut the guy loose because of his terrible views?

I thought Nick Cave did a good job discussing the Morrissey-turned-rightwing-hack question on his blog:

"Morrissey’s political opinion becomes irrelevant. Whatever inanities he may postulate, we cannot overlook the fact that he has written a vast and extraordinary catalogue, which has enhanced the lives of his many fans beyond recognition. This is no small thing. He has created original and distinctive works of unparalleled beauty, that will long outlast his offending political alliances."

"I still believe that despite how upsetting Morrissey’s views may be to the marginalised and dispossessed members of society, or anyone else for that matter, he still should have the freedom to express his views, just as others should have the freedom to challenge them—even if just to know in what guise their enemy may appear. The charge that defending a person’s right to their opinions somehow aligns one with their views makes no sense at all and strikes at the heart of the problem itself—that of conflating the concept of free speech with bigotry. This is very dangerous territory indeed."

"Perhaps it is better to simply let Morrissey have his views, challenge them when and wherever possible, but allow his music to live on, bearing in mind we are all conflicted individuals—messy, flawed and prone to lunacies. We should thank God that there are some among us that create works of beauty beyond anything most of us can barely imagine, even as some of those same people fall prey to regressive and dangerous belief systems."

I almost feel at times like I've become a closeted fan, unwilling to discuss my fandom with friends and family. Maybe this is the bigger question of separating the artist from their art, but something I've been thinking about these past few days as I've been listening to his music.
I'm very surprised to find that Cave likes Morrissey's music, I would not have guessed that. I also relate to your closeted fan note, especially where it relates to Woody Allen. Aside from the obvious fracas every time his name is brought up, you can't even correct the scads of misinformation surrounding him without being accused of condoning all of it.
Likewise, nobody has shamed me into not liking much of Allen's work yet, though Manhattan is just a step too far. Heck, while I'm at it, i even heard a Clapton track on the radio last week that i had to admit i really damned liked.
Now YOU'VE gone too far :lol:
Yeah, regret that one now. Should have buried that one 12 feet deep and built the world's largest sarcophagus over it!

Silent Majority
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Re: The All Smiths/Morrissey Thread

Post by Silent Majority »

Low Down Low wrote:
10 Oct 2022, 4:32pm
Kory wrote:
10 Oct 2022, 4:07pm
Low Down Low wrote:
10 Oct 2022, 3:40pm
Kory wrote:
10 Oct 2022, 2:54pm
WestwayKid wrote:
10 Oct 2022, 11:52am
I'm going through a Morrissey kick right now and it's been tough to be a Morrissey fan these last few years (cue the jokers who will tell me it's always been tough to be a Morrissey fan) because he's turned into such a dick. I struggle with this. Should I keep enjoying his music (and I really do like it) or cut the guy loose because of his terrible views?

I thought Nick Cave did a good job discussing the Morrissey-turned-rightwing-hack question on his blog:

"Morrissey’s political opinion becomes irrelevant. Whatever inanities he may postulate, we cannot overlook the fact that he has written a vast and extraordinary catalogue, which has enhanced the lives of his many fans beyond recognition. This is no small thing. He has created original and distinctive works of unparalleled beauty, that will long outlast his offending political alliances."

"I still believe that despite how upsetting Morrissey’s views may be to the marginalised and dispossessed members of society, or anyone else for that matter, he still should have the freedom to express his views, just as others should have the freedom to challenge them—even if just to know in what guise their enemy may appear. The charge that defending a person’s right to their opinions somehow aligns one with their views makes no sense at all and strikes at the heart of the problem itself—that of conflating the concept of free speech with bigotry. This is very dangerous territory indeed."

"Perhaps it is better to simply let Morrissey have his views, challenge them when and wherever possible, but allow his music to live on, bearing in mind we are all conflicted individuals—messy, flawed and prone to lunacies. We should thank God that there are some among us that create works of beauty beyond anything most of us can barely imagine, even as some of those same people fall prey to regressive and dangerous belief systems."

I almost feel at times like I've become a closeted fan, unwilling to discuss my fandom with friends and family. Maybe this is the bigger question of separating the artist from their art, but something I've been thinking about these past few days as I've been listening to his music.
I'm very surprised to find that Cave likes Morrissey's music, I would not have guessed that. I also relate to your closeted fan note, especially where it relates to Woody Allen. Aside from the obvious fracas every time his name is brought up, you can't even correct the scads of misinformation surrounding him without being accused of condoning all of it.
Likewise, nobody has shamed me into not liking much of Allen's work yet, though Manhattan is just a step too far. Heck, while I'm at it, i even heard a Clapton track on the radio last week that i had to admit i really damned liked.
Now YOU'VE gone too far :lol:
Yeah, regret that one now. Should have buried that one 12 feet deep and built the world's largest sarcophagus over it!
I'll fuck with Cream.
a lifetime serving one machine
Is ten times worse than prison


www.pexlives.libsyn.com/

Kory
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Re: The All Smiths/Morrissey Thread

Post by Kory »

Silent Majority wrote:
10 Oct 2022, 4:34pm
Low Down Low wrote:
10 Oct 2022, 4:32pm
Kory wrote:
10 Oct 2022, 4:07pm
Low Down Low wrote:
10 Oct 2022, 3:40pm
Kory wrote:
10 Oct 2022, 2:54pm


I'm very surprised to find that Cave likes Morrissey's music, I would not have guessed that. I also relate to your closeted fan note, especially where it relates to Woody Allen. Aside from the obvious fracas every time his name is brought up, you can't even correct the scads of misinformation surrounding him without being accused of condoning all of it.
Likewise, nobody has shamed me into not liking much of Allen's work yet, though Manhattan is just a step too far. Heck, while I'm at it, i even heard a Clapton track on the radio last week that i had to admit i really damned liked.
Now YOU'VE gone too far :lol:
Yeah, regret that one now. Should have buried that one 12 feet deep and built the world's largest sarcophagus over it!
I'll fuck with Cream.
Food and sex don't really mix for me.
"Suck our Earth dick, Martians!" —Doc

Silent Majority
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Posts: 18702
Joined: 10 Nov 2008, 8:28pm
Location: South Londoner in the Midlands.

Re: The All Smiths/Morrissey Thread

Post by Silent Majority »

Kory wrote:
10 Oct 2022, 4:35pm
Silent Majority wrote:
10 Oct 2022, 4:34pm
Low Down Low wrote:
10 Oct 2022, 4:32pm
Kory wrote:
10 Oct 2022, 4:07pm
Low Down Low wrote:
10 Oct 2022, 3:40pm


Likewise, nobody has shamed me into not liking much of Allen's work yet, though Manhattan is just a step too far. Heck, while I'm at it, i even heard a Clapton track on the radio last week that i had to admit i really damned liked.
Now YOU'VE gone too far :lol:
Yeah, regret that one now. Should have buried that one 12 feet deep and built the world's largest sarcophagus over it!
I'll fuck with Cream.
Food and sex don't really mix for me.
Where's that old Brando's Brand Butter pic?
a lifetime serving one machine
Is ten times worse than prison


www.pexlives.libsyn.com/

Kory
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Re: The All Smiths/Morrissey Thread

Post by Kory »

Silent Majority wrote:
10 Oct 2022, 4:37pm
Kory wrote:
10 Oct 2022, 4:35pm
Silent Majority wrote:
10 Oct 2022, 4:34pm
Low Down Low wrote:
10 Oct 2022, 4:32pm
Kory wrote:
10 Oct 2022, 4:07pm


Now YOU'VE gone too far :lol:
Yeah, regret that one now. Should have buried that one 12 feet deep and built the world's largest sarcophagus over it!
I'll fuck with Cream.
Food and sex don't really mix for me.
Where's that old Brando's Brand Butter pic?
I think Doc is usually our image archivist, I expect him to drop the pic any minute now.
"Suck our Earth dick, Martians!" —Doc

Dr. Medulla
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Re: The All Smiths/Morrissey Thread

Post by Dr. Medulla »

Kory wrote:
10 Oct 2022, 6:16pm
Silent Majority wrote:
10 Oct 2022, 4:37pm
Kory wrote:
10 Oct 2022, 4:35pm
Silent Majority wrote:
10 Oct 2022, 4:34pm
Low Down Low wrote:
10 Oct 2022, 4:32pm


Yeah, regret that one now. Should have buried that one 12 feet deep and built the world's largest sarcophagus over it!
I'll fuck with Cream.
Food and sex don't really mix for me.
Where's that old Brando's Brand Butter pic?
I think Doc is usually our image archivist, I expect him to drop the pic any minute now.
That was Ratty (he handled pretty much all archival work).
"I never doubted myself for a minute for I knew that my monkey-strong bowels were girded with strength, like the loins of a dragon ribboned with fat and the opulence of buffalo dung." - Richard Nixon, Checkers Speech, abandoned early draft

Kory
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Re: The All Smiths/Morrissey Thread

Post by Kory »

Dr. Medulla wrote:
10 Oct 2022, 6:24pm
Kory wrote:
10 Oct 2022, 6:16pm
Silent Majority wrote:
10 Oct 2022, 4:37pm
Kory wrote:
10 Oct 2022, 4:35pm
Silent Majority wrote:
10 Oct 2022, 4:34pm


I'll fuck with Cream.
Food and sex don't really mix for me.
Where's that old Brando's Brand Butter pic?
I think Doc is usually our image archivist, I expect him to drop the pic any minute now.
That was Ratty (he handled pretty much all archival work).
Drat Patrol.
"Suck our Earth dick, Martians!" —Doc

Dr. Medulla
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Re: The All Smiths/Morrissey Thread

Post by Dr. Medulla »

Kory wrote:
10 Oct 2022, 6:25pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
10 Oct 2022, 6:24pm
Kory wrote:
10 Oct 2022, 6:16pm
Silent Majority wrote:
10 Oct 2022, 4:37pm
Kory wrote:
10 Oct 2022, 4:35pm


Food and sex don't really mix for me.
Where's that old Brando's Brand Butter pic?
I think Doc is usually our image archivist, I expect him to drop the pic any minute now.
That was Ratty (he handled pretty much all archival work).
Drat Patrol.
Searching "Brando" here found it:
Image
"I never doubted myself for a minute for I knew that my monkey-strong bowels were girded with strength, like the loins of a dragon ribboned with fat and the opulence of buffalo dung." - Richard Nixon, Checkers Speech, abandoned early draft

Kory
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Re: The All Smiths/Morrissey Thread

Post by Kory »

Dr. Medulla wrote:
10 Oct 2022, 6:52pm
Kory wrote:
10 Oct 2022, 6:25pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
10 Oct 2022, 6:24pm
Kory wrote:
10 Oct 2022, 6:16pm
Silent Majority wrote:
10 Oct 2022, 4:37pm


Where's that old Brando's Brand Butter pic?
I think Doc is usually our image archivist, I expect him to drop the pic any minute now.
That was Ratty (he handled pretty much all archival work).
Drat Patrol.
Searching "Brando" here found it:
Image
CLUTCH
"Suck our Earth dick, Martians!" —Doc

Low Down Low
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Re: The All Smiths/Morrissey Thread

Post by Low Down Low »

Good news for begrudging Morrissey fans: he is being supported in the British press

Bad news for begrudging Morrissey fans: the author is such a complete reactionary tosspot, he manages to make even Morrissey look woke


Dr. Medulla
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Re: The All Smiths/Morrissey Thread

Post by Dr. Medulla »

Low Down Low wrote:
11 Oct 2022, 5:28pm
Good news for begrudging Morrissey fans: he is being supported in the British press

Bad news for begrudging Morrissey fans: the author is such a complete reactionary tosspot, he manages to make even Morrissey look woke

Yes, the reason we don't know the name of the latest suicide bomber and spree killer is because of woke cancel culture snowflakery. Doubtless if we quizzed Morrissey or this guy for the names of those behind a dozen of these incidences, they'd have the names handy because they care so much, unlike the rest of us. Jesus fucking Christ.
"I never doubted myself for a minute for I knew that my monkey-strong bowels were girded with strength, like the loins of a dragon ribboned with fat and the opulence of buffalo dung." - Richard Nixon, Checkers Speech, abandoned early draft

Low Down Low
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Re: The All Smiths/Morrissey Thread

Post by Low Down Low »

Dr. Medulla wrote:
11 Oct 2022, 6:25pm
Low Down Low wrote:
11 Oct 2022, 5:28pm
Good news for begrudging Morrissey fans: he is being supported in the British press

Bad news for begrudging Morrissey fans: the author is such a complete reactionary tosspot, he manages to make even Morrissey look woke

Yes, the reason we don't know the name of the latest suicide bomber and spree killer is because of woke cancel culture snowflakery. Doubtless if we quizzed Morrissey or this guy for the names of those behind a dozen of these incidences, they'd have the names handy because they care so much, unlike the rest of us. Jesus fucking Christ.
It's a really dumb comparison they're making anyway as there's always been this weird public fascination with serial killers, as long as they've been a thing. I mean, they're still publishing books about Jack the Ripper over 100 years on. People are just obsessed with this stuff in a way they aren't with other crimes and that's nothing to do with "wokery" or cancel culture or whatever you're having yourself. It's just longstanding human nature.

Dr. Medulla
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Re: The All Smiths/Morrissey Thread

Post by Dr. Medulla »

Low Down Low wrote:
11 Oct 2022, 7:06pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
11 Oct 2022, 6:25pm
Low Down Low wrote:
11 Oct 2022, 5:28pm
Good news for begrudging Morrissey fans: he is being supported in the British press

Bad news for begrudging Morrissey fans: the author is such a complete reactionary tosspot, he manages to make even Morrissey look woke

Yes, the reason we don't know the name of the latest suicide bomber and spree killer is because of woke cancel culture snowflakery. Doubtless if we quizzed Morrissey or this guy for the names of those behind a dozen of these incidences, they'd have the names handy because they care so much, unlike the rest of us. Jesus fucking Christ.
It's a really dumb comparison they're making anyway as there's always been this weird public fascination with serial killers, as long as they've been a thing. I mean, they're still publishing books about Jack the Ripper over 100 years on. People are just obsessed with this stuff in a way they aren't with other crimes and that's nothing to do with "wokery" or cancel culture or whatever you're having yourself. It's just longstanding human nature.
On the other hand, it's good to be aware that Morrissey has entered his Bono phase of making dumb "you should feel ashamed" comments at his shows.
"I never doubted myself for a minute for I knew that my monkey-strong bowels were girded with strength, like the loins of a dragon ribboned with fat and the opulence of buffalo dung." - Richard Nixon, Checkers Speech, abandoned early draft

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Re: The All Smiths/Morrissey Thread

Post by WestwayKid »

Low Down Low wrote:
11 Oct 2022, 7:06pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
11 Oct 2022, 6:25pm
Low Down Low wrote:
11 Oct 2022, 5:28pm
Good news for begrudging Morrissey fans: he is being supported in the British press

Bad news for begrudging Morrissey fans: the author is such a complete reactionary tosspot, he manages to make even Morrissey look woke

Yes, the reason we don't know the name of the latest suicide bomber and spree killer is because of woke cancel culture snowflakery. Doubtless if we quizzed Morrissey or this guy for the names of those behind a dozen of these incidences, they'd have the names handy because they care so much, unlike the rest of us. Jesus fucking Christ.
It's a really dumb comparison they're making anyway as there's always been this weird public fascination with serial killers, as long as they've been a thing. I mean, they're still publishing books about Jack the Ripper over 100 years on. People are just obsessed with this stuff in a way they aren't with other crimes and that's nothing to do with "wokery" or cancel culture or whatever you're having yourself. It's just longstanding human nature.
Morrissey's even written a song about Jack the Ripper ;).
"They don't think it be like it is, but it do." - Oscar Gamble

WestwayKid
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Re: The All Smiths/Morrissey Thread

Post by WestwayKid »

I was listening to the reimagined Kill Uncle the other day and Morrissey did improve on the original, but the original was so underwhelming that it's still a disappointing listen.

His reimagined Viva Hate is a real headscratcher. I'm not sure why he felt the need to mess with that one. He does not improve, but detracts from the original.

The reworking of Maladjusted, however, is spot on. The original always felt flat and poorly sequenced. By removing 2 of the weakest tracks and adding in some period correct b-sides and then resequencing the whole thing, I think it goes from one of his weakest efforts to one of his strongest.

Southpaw Grammar is kind of the same thing, though the original Southpaw was not as bad as the original Maladjusted. Even so, it's an improvement.
"They don't think it be like it is, but it do." - Oscar Gamble

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